Bioware needs to decide

[Jederix]

I came from DDO, where there is literally zero pvp balance at all. . .but it's just common knowledge to not try and pvp in that game because of it. So it's not like no one would ever play swtor because it didn't have pvp. In fact I imagine this idea alone would attract a lot of people(probably less than they would lose from pvpers leaving, but still).

 

But, doing this would give the developers the ability to balance the game with insane precision for PvE.

 

Don't let them fool you. PvPers are a minority in the MMO genre, no matter what they try to tell you. MMO developers would do good to ignore them completely. They do more to keep their numbers small by being how they are than any other factor.

 

There is a reason there are no successful, PvP only MMOs out there; the demographic is not large enough to prop up an AAA MMO.

[Jederix]

City of heroes did just that. A while ago they kept pve where it was and revamped everything for pvp so that damage was consistant across all classes and powers. The result? It killed pvp and they lost a huge part of their player base.

 

Of course they did. Most MMO PvPers are not interested in balance. They are interested in exploiting the gear and class imbalances inherent in all MMO PvP.

 

If they were interested in balanced PvP, they'd be playing an FPS where pure skill is the deciding factor. Skill is the last thing some of these PvPers are interested in.

[Tic-]

Don't let them fool you. PvPers are a minority in the MMO genre, no matter what they try to tell you. MMO developers would do good to ignore them completely. They do more to keep their numbers small by being how they are than any other factor.

 

There is a reason there are no successful, PvP only MMOs out there; the demographic is not large enough to prop up an AAA MMO.

 

You'd think with them being such a minority, a AAA developer would just not include PvP. Get that utopian MMO that "everyone" clamors for. Perfect balance, no "kids", everyone getting along, butteflies and rainbows...

 

Millions and millions of subs....

 

Yet they keep adding PvP... I wonder why???

 

hmmmm....

Edited June 6, 2012 by Tic-

[Lt_Latency]

You need both if you want to even think about calling yourself tripple A.

 

Most players do at least a little of both, You just have to accept that they do effect each other.

 

People that only want PvP or only want PvE are few and far between. If you only have one you won't do well compared to games that have both,

[Superawesomerman]

Put it this way:

 

Considering how much it takes to develop pve content as opposed to pvp content, developers would be stupid not to include pvp to increase subscriber base.

 

Pvpers are happy playing the same damn small maps for years on end: look at wow. Change the classes, change the game.

 

Pve content gets old fast and is almost never reused.

[Mojobrandt]

I really love PvP. What I don't love most of the time are the PvP'ers. Most MMO's I've played where there is PvP, the PvPers tend to be the most annoying people to me. However, that is just what I think of them, and its mostly because they complain 90% of time they die, or because they let their healers die and then wonder why they don't get heals. Anyways, besides that, from the perspective of game changes, most PvPers don't want their pvp to be 100% balanced, they want every other class to be balanced, except theirs. Some aren't like this, but most of them that I know, and most of the suggestions I see about pvp follow this.

 

The best way, in my mind, is to make the classes and skills reflect purely the PvE, because the classes most often are balanced then, at least more so if it was taken from PvP. I've seen perfectly balanced games get totally unbalanced because the dev's are trying to tweak every little skill, every little dps and heal tick to make pvp 100% balanced, and it never is, because someone always complains. I have found that great Pvp'ers are great no matter how nerfed or OP their classes are. Most of the people that complain are the ones that want max valour, or the max epeen gear to show off without having to actually think or do much work, and since they are the ones that swarm the forums, the devs listen to them. It's much like if you're at a college and you look at professor ratings. Lots of good professors have bad ratings because more bad people complain in public and good people compliment. I think if the dev's looked less at the forums, and played the games themselves and in the servers, they would get a much better feel for it. Listening to players complain is never a good substitute for just trying it with normal people.

 

So, for you devs, here is my suggestion: Don't pick PvE or PvP, or balance classes based off of forums. Roll a character yourself, on a random server, and just play the game like a NORMAL person. (i.e. find a guild and just have fun, or pug stuff, etc). You'll get a much better feel for the game and how things are working or not working than listening to forum complaints.

[Zyxxy]

"We always said up until launch, it's our game. After launch, it's the community's game. Our community loves PvP. In The Old Republic, people play warzones far more than anything else"

 

Are the devs thick or what?

 

I cant say i like pvp a lot but with 4 toons in BM gear the main reason ive been forced to play pvp is due to virtually nothing else to do.

 

Little to no point doing FP's when you already have raid gear

 

Raids 3 a week if your lucky enough that the rest of your guild hasnt quit due to boredom and lack of content/ having their toons nerfed to uselessnes.

 

I have 4 lvl 50 toons i just cant face the repetition and boredom of doing it all again. (god knows ive tried)

 

If BW are saying their going to focus this game around pvp then i guess they dont understand their own game.

 

The classic example of this was when the devs said everyone loves huttball its played more than any other WZ - Guys it was played more than any other because 1. we dont have a choice what to queue up for and 2. it was at that time the only WZ that could be played against the same faction.

 

Now they are basing their game on this same flawed logic. Its like saying that people prefer wanking to actual sex because more people do the former more of the time, it doesnt take into account that people do the former because the latter isnt available at that time!

Edited June 6, 2012 by Zyxxy
typo

[MikanDelwynn]

While it does seem like a bother to have PVE-based skills nerfed because they are overpowered, or something in PvP, it would be silly for Bioware to get rid of PvP in this game. A lot of people are enjoying the Warzones, and I am confident that the PvP crowd might be as big as the PVE crowd.

[Mallorik]

City of heroes did just that. A while ago they kept pve where it was and revamped everything for pvp so that damage was consistant across all classes and powers. The result? It killed pvp and they lost a huge part of their player base.

 

I just dont understand how that would kill pvp? i understand that changing it in the middle of a game can be jarring and may upset people, but if a game releases with totaly seperate pvp and pve abilities, or atleast the same skills that have different effects , How that can be negative to either pvp or pve.

 

Its been proven for years than when you mix the two and one of then gets nerfed to fix a problem with the other one it causes players to riot.

[Dezzi]

Treating PVP and PVE as seperate things always results in poor gameplay.

 

Well said.

[Superawesomerman]

I just dont understand how that would kill pvp? i understand that changing it in the middle of a game can be jarring and may upset people, but if a game releases with totaly seperate pvp and pve abilities, or atleast the same skills that have different effects , How that can be negative to either pvp or pve.

 

Its been proven for years than when you mix the two and one of then gets nerfed to fix a problem with the other one it causes players to riot.

 

Riot, not leave en masse. If you have a seperate set of skills for pve and pvp you basically have a whole other class.

[JimG]

and considering the biggest server is a PVP server... mhhhhh

 

LOL, that' s just because there are less PVP servers. There is no way the overall PVP playerbase is anywhere near as high as the overall PVE playerbase......that goes for basically any MMO.

[midxx]

I like pvp and pve the should keep both