Holy Shadow Nerf! (1.3 PTS)

[Kllashaa]

However, in PvE, balance shadows are insanely good. Our regular raid group uses both a balance shadow and a watchman sentinel, and our balance shadow usually sits dead even with the sentinel in terms of average DPS (1400 - 1500). I have no idea how she gets her numbers that high (I certainly can't match that in my balance spec), but I've seen numerous parses across different operations.

Very neat. Thanks for the feedback, Keyboard.

 

How does your Balance Shadow and Watchman Sentinel stack up to Gunslingers (any spec) and DPS Vanguards on your parses?

[Boarg]

Just to give further explanation on prior comments… Comparing the tanks, even pre-nerf, is largely a question of tanking philosophy - of which there are many. The tanks rank differently depending on philosophy.

 

I tend to divide down to three core philosophies and categorize them on ways to result in a wipe.

 

1. Tank takes too much damage long term, and bottlenecks the healers either with throughput and/or runs them out of resources.

 

2. Tank gets gibbed by predictable/expected encounter events.

 

3. Tank gets gibbed by a series of bad rng.

 

 

Philosophy #1 emphasizes best overall avoidance, mitigation, and healing over long periods of time pretty much using average results. Cooldowns do figure into long term results.

 

Philosophy #2 emphasizes cooldowns that a skilled player can use to blunt the fight mechanics and mitigate the worst damage.

 

Philosophy #3 emphasizes effective health under the worst conditions and the most reliable forms of passive mitigation.

 

 

All of the philosophies have real value and need to be combined to form an overall picture of tanking strength/value with the classes. Personally, I'm used to playing with good healers where throughput and longevity are pretty much non-issues, so #1 gets the least weight from me. Most wipes that have anything to do with tanking come from surprising the healers with bad rng strings of spike damage that either result in a tank death or require so much unplanned attention to the tank that someone else ends up dead. So, #3 gets a heavy weighting. #2 is similar, but expected for both the tanks and healers and skilled play can make fights easier for everyone, so it gets a heavy weighting too, but probably not quite as much as #3 because all sorts of raid members can do things to contribute to difficult situations when they know its coming.

 

 

Ranking the tanks in each of the categories (pre-nerf):

 

#1 - Shadow->Guardian->Vanguard (Although, fights that particularly emphasis rotating cooldowns could put Guardians ahead.)

#2 - Guardian->Shadow->Vanguard

#3 - Vanguard->Guardian->Shadow (Note guardians absorb mechanic contributes to blunting a damage spike while Shadow's self healing does no good when you're already dead.)

 

In all of these, the grouping isn't very far apart, generally. My own personal weighting is what puts Guardians as best for all around value and Vanguards second for being best in the most important category. In another guild where healing throughput is a bigger concern, Shadows might be a top choice to ease up on their resource bar. If a guild was hard up for another 50 dps to beat enrage timers, they might also prefer Shadow.

 

Although, post-nerf it's hard to see Shadows really being entirely competitive anymore.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Boarg

[KeyboardNinja]

Very neat. Thanks for the feedback, Keyboard.

 

How does your Balance Shadow and Watchman Sentinel stack up to Gunslingers (any spec) and DPS Vanguards on your parses?

 

So, our balance shadow generally sits at about 1400. Unfortunately, while we do have a gunslinger who runs with us regularly, he has never shared one of his combat logs with me. Judging by how he *feels* though as a tank (i.e. how frequently and when he pulls off of me), I would say he's probably doing 1350-1400 on most bosses. He'll burst higher on others though, as he is a sharpshooter spec. I have heard of sharpshooters over-topping 1500 (same with sentinels), but I have never actually seen it except on fights with damage multipliers (e.g. Fabricator, Kephess, Dr Lorrick).

 

Our server really only has one DPS Vanguard doing high end content, which is a shame, and I rarely run with him, which is even more of a shame. I'm sure there are more DPS Vanguards around, I just haven't had a chance to study them at all.

[Loqutor]

Really, I'd be fine with this nerf if they hadn't made the threat generation so ridiculously high. It make Stealth pretty much worthless, and it's caused enemies from 20 meters away to attack me en masse, which is especially difficult when I'm trying to heal after dying, and I won't go back to the med center because it already took me about twenty minutes to get to an instance.

 

If this doesn't suck my credits dry, I dunno what will.

[Feoktist]

Didn't see that much difference in survivability after boosting defense +2.5% with augments.

[Missandei]

Didn't see that much difference in survivability after boosting defense +2.5% with augments.

 

Yup.. but mind that other 2 tanks gain a real boost from augments while you only have even the stats to prior 1.3 situation..

[Missandei]

The situation as so far..

Any Shadow who fully geared before 1.3 can say that «uhh.. there is not much changed.. »

But gear grind after 1.3 becomes a pain..

 

For example.. Sure, if you are Campaign geared you are easily can do Lost Island HM..

But try to do it in Columi gear.. And you will be surprised..

[allexj]

they should have done one or the other not both to me that is too much..

[Shruk]

I'm almost only playing PvP and I simply hate the harnessed shadow nerf. To me it feels like there is no point in going up kinetic that high any more. This somewhat shortens the viable possibilities you have for pvp.

 

a) 31/ x / x full tank (including gear)

b) 23/ x / x kinetic hybrid

c) x/ x / 31 full balance

 

Infiltration already is unplayable in PvP as it is, balance works quite fine but you're squishy and feel more like a crippled Sage.

 

I usually don't mind nerfs as long as other viable options are available or other skills are buffed as compensation. But considering marauder/sentinels dominating every single wz I'd like to see them tuned down as well.