Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[jizazi]

I would really like to buy addons, please Bioware give them to us.

As part of the proud 1%, something to spend on would be a nice change. I know many others feel the same way!

 

I would even pay monthly for better UI addons that give me an advantage over other players. Also, I think an option of say --100$--for a decked out character, full gear. Something that really differentiates that character. Could even rotate some StarWars Limited Special Armor etc every 3months, that going to be a lot of extra cash!

 

Thank you Bioware, hope you are reading this and implement something similar to whats proposed.

Edited December 14, 2011 by jizazi

[Enundr]

Tell us exactly how it's different, and how meaningful it is. And no, gear is not an issue, you know why? Because gear versus performance is something that anybody can see already.

 

And FWIW, GS is off-topic for this thread, but you know...it could be based on the actual stats you use instead. Current WOW version actually does weight for that. Strange, huh?

 

Abuse? It exists without the tools, so you want to blame something? Blame the people, not the tool. Fix them.

 

oooo i touched a nerve , i sense you are one of those who abuse Recount eh? , but i've seen the combat first hand , its more different as far as anyone who doesn't like to be jerks care , but you don't care so why bother? =P

[ngerefugee]

I do not support any addons of this type for a simple reason; they reduce the game down to number crunching rather than enjoyment of the actual game. The problem with the communities of post WoW MMO's is that they have forgotten what 'community' actually means and are instead focused completely on me want, me want, me want. The guy with sub-par dps may actually be a really fun person to group with so instead of using tools like this to weed him out as useless try asking how he is specced and identify what he needs help with; then provide it.

[Colobulous]

oooo i touched a nerve , i sense you are one of those who abuse Recount eh? , but i've seen the combat first hand , its more different as far as anyone who doesn't like to be jerks care , but you don't care so why bother? =P

 

Ah, instead of replying to me with substantive examples of differences, you make up aspersions about me.

 

I guess you don't actually need Recount to commit abuse.

 

Ergo...no reason not to include it to avoid abuse.

 

Now can you come up with examples as to why combat is so different it can't be measured through a combat log? Bearing in mind, mobs do have health bars.

 

 

I do not support any addons of this type for a simple reason; they reduce the game down to number crunching rather than enjoyment of the actual game.

 

Some people enjoy number-crunching. But tell me, does this mean you want a Blackbox game?

 

The problem with the communities of post WoW MMO's is that they have forgotten what 'community' actually means and are instead focused completely on me want, me want, me want. The guy with sub-par dps may actually be a really fun person to group with so instead of using tools like this to weed him out as useless try asking how he is specced and identify what he needs help with; then provide it.

 

But what if I use the tool to try to help them? What if they refuse that help because they are focused on their own self? I've actually found that comes up a fair bit. What should be done in that case?

Edited December 14, 2011 by Colobulous

[Enundr]

I do not support any addons of this type for a simple reason; they reduce the game down to number crunching rather than enjoyment of the actual game. The problem with the communities of post WoW MMO's is that they have forgotten what 'community' actually means and are instead focused completely on me want, me want, me want. The guy with sub-par dps may actually be a really fun person to group with so instead of using tools like this to weed him out as useless try asking how he is specced and identify what he needs help with; then provide it.

 

you are right , ive seen someone try to tank , not specced as a tank for defensive bonuses , and in NO tanking gear and had to heal him , i thought the boss was ridiculous then i inspect him and saw what the problem was. i dont see where recount could identify his GEAR and its stats rather then just plain old inspecting gear. but you know ppl they want to be lazy as far as the newer players go and want to judge everything by an addon rather then try to enjoy the game and work together to actually identify whats wrong , as another person posted there are some ppl with ADHD and while the raid leader spends 30minutes scrolling through numbers and recount they pull the boss , rather then just paying attention to the fight and everyones gear. ive lost faith in alot of players lately , i can only hope i find alot who prove me wrong in that matter myself.

[PsyloSatan]

I do not support any addons of this type for a simple reason; they reduce the game down to number crunching rather than enjoyment of the actual game. The problem with the communities of post WoW MMO's is that they have forgotten what 'community' actually means and are instead focused completely on me want, me want, me want. The guy with sub-par dps may actually be a really fun person to group with so instead of using tools like this to weed him out as useless try asking how he is specced and identify what he needs help with; then provide it.

 

Thats just the thing tho man. Recount is also used to help that fun guy learn a couple new tricks. Recount, in the hands of those that know how to use it productively, help him be identified as someone who may not know these cool tricks. Like a guy earlier said about fixing the people, not the addon, Recount just lets you know what is or isnt happening more easily than the crappy default combat log as it is happening (something personal parses dont do). What your guild/raid does with that information is no longer part of the addon.

 

On a side note, to find even ground with the people who do not want addons I would also entertain a 100x more user friendly default combat log that is somewhat customizeable.

 

The reason recount came about in the first place imo is how badly MMOs use their combat log. If the raid hasnt wiped yet but there is trouble building, I dont have time to scroll 50 pages of text to make a call in 5 seconds.

[Toweleeeie]

no mods or add ons please. I like to play my games. Ill pay extra a month to keep these out of the game.

 

Bio already said they are going to patch in customizable UI be happy.

[Enundr]

Ah, instead of replying to me with substantive examples of differences, you make up aspersions about me.

 

I guess you don't actually need Recount to commit abuse.

 

Ergo...no reason not to include it to avoid abuse.

 

Now can you come up with examples as to why combat is so different it can't be measured through a combat log? Bearing in mind, mobs do have health bars.

 

 

 

 

Some people enjoy number-crunching. But tell me, does this mean you want a Blackbox game?

 

 

 

But what if I use the tool to try to help them? What if they refuse that help because they are focused on their own self? I've actually found that comes up a fair bit. What should be done in that case?

 

you sir are bordering the trolling section , pull back , ITS A TRAP! ;-) , but as i said its pointless to try to explain to one such as you. clearly you didnt actually READ that part much less comprehend that , instead go and prove me right by making your post.

[CBGB]

I do not support any addons of this type for a simple reason; they reduce the game down to number crunching rather than enjoyment of the actual game.

 

Agreed.

 

And that approach no longer becomes optional. Returning to WoW after three years away, I couldn't believe how drastically the community had changed, and not for the better.

 

Here's hoping SWTOR puts that off for a long, long time.

[JustTed]

You're in competition with the raid content itself, not your teammates for biggest e-peen.

 

Anyone who wants recount just wants to be the guy on top. Such egos belong in single player games.

[Colobulous]

you are right , ive seen someone try to tank , not specced as a tank for defensive bonuses , and in NO tanking gear and had to heal him , i thought the boss was ridiculous then i inspect him and saw what the problem was. i dont see where recount could identify his GEAR and its stats rather then just plain old inspecting gear.

 

If the API functions for inspect include checking stats, there's no reason it couldn't be done that way.

 

Recount is not an inspection tool though, if you want a tool for that, fair enough, but some people prefer their tools to be modular. Still, no reason you couldn't combine them if that's what you desired.

 

Still, Recount is for processing the combat log, and if there's a raid leader who takes 30 minutes to go through it, they're doing something wrong.

 

 

you sir are bordering the trolling section , pull back , ITS A TRAP! ;-) , but as i said its pointless to try to explain to one such as you. clearly you didnt actually READ that part much less comprehend that , instead go and prove me right by making your post.

 

So...nothing in the way of a constructive reply?

Edited December 14, 2011 by Colobulous

[Blochead]

no I do not support

 

/sign

[choxor]

I'd like recount for my own edification. I'd like to know how rotation and gear choices impact my damage. However, I strongly disagree that it's "necessary for raiding." Sounds like something someone would say who hadn't stepped into a raid until WoW's wotlk pugfest where the social aspect of the game was destroyed. Instead of raiding with people you knew, you raided with complete strangers and people were reduced to nothing more than arbitrary numbers: DPS, HPS, GS.

 

It's a double-edged sword. I'd like it to test myself, but it's inevitable that it'll be used as an exclusionary tool.

[Enundr]

ive been in enough raids to know its not just a "few" raid leaders who take a bit going through recount , they take long enough where ppl take bio / smoke breaks and then it starts getting monotonous at that point , taking much longer then it should have .

[Varkantos]

If you can't tell how much damage the guy next to you is doing, and he can't tell how much you are doing just by watching the casting animations and knowing what gear he has, you both have failed. If you don't know what gear your group mate has, you are in the wrong group.

 

Its a tool for the lazy. If you can't run those numbers in your head, pick up a new genre of gaming.

[ZORG]

 

Recount is not just a "damage meter"... it is a graphical interface which allows you to view group activity in the combat log i.e. Damage Done over the duration of the fight by each player, Friendly Fire, Damage Taken, Healing Done, Absorbs, Healing Taken, Overhealing Done, Deaths, DOT Uptime, HOT Uptime, Player Combat Activity, Dispels, The Dispelled, Interrupts, Ressers, CC Breakers, Resources Gained, etc.

 

I believe these tools play an important role in identifying whether a player is doing well or under-performing. Nevertheless, these graphs should be the starting point – an indicator that you should be looking more closely at the situation. Used wisely, a tool like this could greatly improve guild performance.

 

Some individuals are fearful of an "elitist" backlash caused by the improper use of such a tool. Nevertheless, people have also argued that this tool would actually curb elitist behavior based on FACTS and DATA rather than Gear, Achievements, Spec, Gut Feeling or Favoritism.

 

The inevitability of undesirable behavior isn't something we can escape in a massive online community, so the real question is...

 

Would you rather be castigated based on factual data or would you rather take your chances with the "hunch" of a self seeking jerk?

 

With Recount

 

Jerk: Dude please leave the group your DPS sucks.

 

 

Without Recount

 

Jerk: Dude please leave the group you are wearing a green helm and your gear isn't good enough for this encounter. (You get kicked, even if you were top DPS)

-

EDIT: It would also totally eliminate "recount spam". They could disable all data broadcasts... If everyone has access to the information there would be no need to broadcast the results.

 

EDIT UPDATE:

-

During the speed-fire round starting at 13:00 in the video. Georg confirms an out of game COMBAT LOG!

 

People will have access to combat logs please bring a recount version in the game!

 

I think Georg Zoeller understands our pain for not having a combat log at launch, let's hope they "get it right" and quickly.

 

NO. I dont want anyone judging anyone elses play style be cause it doesnt live up to someones idea of damage or healing efficiency.

[Colobulous]

If you can't tell how much damage the guy next to you is doing, and he can't tell how much you are doing just by watching the casting animations and knowing what gear he has, you both have failed.

 

I wasn't aware that casting animations scaled with actual damage performance.

 

 

If you don't know what gear your group mate has, you are in the wrong group.

 

There's a substantial crowd that is against you knowing that at all.

 

 

NO. I dont want anyone judging anyone elses play style be cause it doesnt live up to someones idea of damage or healing efficiency.

 

 

You do realize that the developers are going to have to do this anyway, right?

Edited December 14, 2011 by Colobulous

[Israel]

If you can't tell how much damage the guy next to you is doing, and he can't tell how much you are doing just by watching the casting animations and knowing what gear he has, you both have failed.

 

It is impossible to look at cast animations and tell if someone is playing well. I don't care who you are. It is impossible.

[Zocat]

Yes. Also with an option "group only with people who dont have it enabled", "group only with people who have it enabled" and "i dont care, just give me a group!".

 

In that way everyone gets what they want. People who dont like tools like recount play with themselves, and they arent bothered by elitists. Groups who like tools can play with themselves and arent bothered by noobs who drag the performance level down.

Win : win for everyone!

 

Adding more options is never a bad thing

[XPredatorHunterX]

I have no desire to see this game fall to the same things that made other games bad. People have stated that they would like to know for their own reference, but that inlays the problem. You are no long Joe Jedi/Sally Sith. You have become the very basic 1,2,3,4...etc. I have no wants to be in failure groups but I am also not wanting to see others become a statistic.

[PsyloSatan]

NO. I dont want anyone judging anyone elses play style be cause it doesnt live up to someones idea of damage or healing efficiency.

 

So ask yourself this, how much fun is it when everyone is rage quitting instead and you are just sitting there waiting for the next ragequitter to fill the spot?

 

You guys that dont like number crunching dont lead raids much do you? Quit taking tools from the people that carry you through the cluster fun time just because you are too lazy to take the initiative. Their job sucks when the raid is sucking and you make it worse. Just stop. I know you will be the ones screaming till you are red in the face that your raid leader is a noob and facepulling as you log to wipe it.

[Colobulous]

I have no desire to see this game fall to the same things that made other games bad. People have stated that they would like to know for their own reference, but that inlays the problem. You are no long Joe Jedi/Sally Sith. You have become the very basic 1,2,3,4...etc. I have no wants to be in failure groups but I am also not wanting to see others become a statistic.

 

So...do you want a BlackBox MMO?

 

Me, I can't say I want to RP that fully myself, but if you do, please say so.

[Varkantos]

It is impossible to look at cast animations and tell if someone is playing well. I don't care who you are. It is impossible.

 

It is deffinately not impossible, you just have to know every class and all gear. Like I said, its a tool for the lazy.

[Hellac]

No - the game is better without mods like recount. I have seen those used against people to belittle them and embarrass them because they don't meet a certain arbitrary standard imposed by individuals who consider themselves "elite".

 

What happened to playing the game and having fun?

 

Play with people and get to know them, you will be able to tell if they are any good or not.

[choxor]

The real problem lies in the fact that most of us (including me) have been brainwashed into the WoW mindset. What should be more important than Patchwerk style raw dps is raid coordination. DPS that won't stand in fire. But emphasizing mechanics like that is up to Bioware. Encounters like Vashj where it was organized chaos and just about everyone had a job to do or it was a wipe. That's what I'd like to see. Raids that emphasize awareness and teamwork over dps meter epeening. Then DPS meters would become less relevant.