QuimboQuambo Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I find it to be exactly the opposite, that without a Combat Log processors, you find that people don't want to do other things, and will not even fess up when asked if they did something, because there's no way to hold them directly accountable. Back in the day when MMORPGs weren't dumbed down, you could use your common sense to determine whether a player was good or not. And even if they weren't - it was a game. It was supposed to be fun to hang around with some people, chat and kill stuff meanwhile. If you died you died and had a good time. Directly accountable... LOL... It's a game, not a court. Heck, even with DPS, sometimes you can't get them to admit they aren't the epitome of perfection without real numbers to it. So what? They aren't perfect? They don't admit it? So what? If you want a dumbed down game where social in-game life doesn't matter anymore at all, go back to WoW please. I prefer to talk to people instead of letting EXCEL speak for me. Elitism at its worst. You, Sir, are the best example of why Recount has to stay out of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancien Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 What's wrong with min/maxing? If someone wants to min/max their character, surely that's their business? Because they never want to just Min/Max THEIR character. They want to do it to everybody's. Say you're playing a new class and you're not doing so well. Well according to recount you're now the weakest link so we're going to boot you from the group. In my opinion there should be no recount. This is a case of if you give them an inch, they will take a mile. Gear Score will come next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovronius Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I find it to be exactly the opposite, that without a Combat Log processors, you find that people don't want to do other things, and will not even fess up when asked if they did something, because there's no way to hold them directly accountable. Heck, even with DPS, sometimes you can't get them to admit they aren't the epitome of perfection without real numbers to it. Me, I prefer something more objective to gut feeling. Well, turns out not everybody agrees, and I actually use the tool for other purposes just as often. Besides, I find people who are going to take things out of proportion are just as prone to that behavior without the meter. Somebody who can't bother to toss a heal when a person is near death...is somebody who wouldn't bother with or without the meter. Really, it doesn't cause you to change your behavior, not at all. Demonstrates maybe, but well, isn't that the point? As a secular person in society, I can appreciate preferring facts over "gut feelings." And as a person that obsessed over numbers and meters and what % of what ability made up my healing, or damage throughout WoW raiding with Recount, I do understand how they are great personal development tools for improving your rotation, changing out gear, or modifying specs. However, the things I also noticed over the years, is that immersion in the game get's highly dulled, when your imagery goes from watching a giant arse dragon level half your raid, or for a boss to leap into the air to signify when you should run for cover, to...When this bar gets to 0 and I hear a dingy I run, and to glaring at bars as you work through your rotation. As far as them not modifying peoples gameplay... I would disagree with the utmost.. That vying for the top spot makes things as mundane as saving enough energy to interrupt to clicking on certain items in the raid room unreliable for a good number of people. Also, take into consideration... if these tools increase peoples ability to play by X amount, the raids will have to be tuned to that. In the long run the people we are going to want to improve (besides ourselves) is our guild mates... and I don't know about you, but I'm observational enough to tell after a little bit who grouping goes easier with, and who things dont quite flow with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Back in the day when MMORPGs weren't dumbed down, you could use your common sense to determine whether a player was good or not. And even if they weren't - it was a game. It was supposed to be fun to hang around with some people, chat and kill stuff meanwhile. If you died you died and had a good time. Directly accountable... LOL... It's a game, not a court. So what? They aren't perfect? They don't admit it? So what? If you want a dumbed down game where social in-game life doesn't matter anymore at all, go back to WoW please. I prefer to talk to people instead of letting EXCEL speak for me. Elitism at its worst. You, Sir, are the best example of why Recount has to stay out of this game. Sorry bud but common sense does not tell you who is messing up and causing wipes and making a game not fun for everyone else. This is a game you are not Ms. Cleo and some psychic. Its not elitism. Elitism is demeaning others for being "bad". That is not happening here so learn what you are talking about. I am not that kind of person. I as a DPS want to be the best so I need a meter to min/max. How is WoW dumbed down? Heroic raids are quite the challenge and take lots of skill and time to beat. You just hate WoW and anything to do with it. This thread is about meters not WoW. Get over yourself. Edited December 14, 2011 by Remidi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meaneye Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Personally, I would (and have) kicked people from the group *in WoW) for using recount to gauge a group. And frankly, every single time I have done it, it worked out for the better. Every single time. Recount is ok to judge yourself, but if you are going to use it to evaluate if you think the group is "good enough for you", then you have deeper issues that you need to work on. I dont live in China. I dont play MMOs professionally. I play to have fun, and snobs in the group can go have their fun elsewhere. That being said, my guild is big enough that I have no intention of pugging anything, so frankly I dont care if they make a recount or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Personally, I would (and have) kicked people from the group *in WoW) for using recount to gauge a group. And frankly, every single time I have done it, it worked out for the better. Every single time. Recount is ok to judge yourself, but if you are going to use it to evaluate if you think the group is "good enough for you", then you have deeper issues that you need to work on. I dont live in China. I dont play MMOs professionally. I play to have fun, and snobs in the group can go have their fun elsewhere. That being said, my guild is big enough that I have no intention of pugging anything, so frankly I dont care if they make a recount or not. Yes if you use it to be an ***...well you are being an ***. I dislike those people as well. I dislike the guy who links meters all the time and in the guild I raided with it was not allowed. But we would be able to replace people who did horrible DPS, interuppted when they should not, use certain spells when they should not. Having a meter/report is the only way to do this. Edited December 14, 2011 by Remidi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turando Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 HAH! I never thought I would be thankful to see this thread return after today's QQing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brool Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 not interested, and not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPredatorHunterX Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Sorry bud but common sense does not tell you who is messing up and causing wipes and making a game not fun for everyone else. This is a game you are not Ms. Cleo and some psychic. Its not elitism. Elitism is demeaning others for being "bad". That is not happening here so learn what you are talking about. I am not that kind of person. I as a DPS want to be the best so I need a meter to min/max. How is WoW dumbed down? Heroic raids are quite the challenge and take lots of skill and time to beat. You just hate WoW and anything to do with it. This thread is about meters not WoW. Get over yourself. By you attitude and responses you have made, you might want to eat some of your own words. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) By you attitude and responses you have made, you might want to eat some of your own words. Just a thought. No. Sorry I do not sugar coat my words. For someone to suggest that you need a second computer because having a meter is bad deserves the reply he was given. Edited December 14, 2011 by Remidi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabushi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I would prefer to not have it. I know it is supposed to help you become a better player and to push yourself a bit harder, but all I ever see from it was bickering, insulting and gloating. I play with a close group of friends and we prefer to not worry about the numbers, just have fun and as long as our group / raid is working as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPredatorHunterX Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 No. Sorry I do not sugar coat my words. What you are going to do is have the moderator close the thread for calling people names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrisonxxi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Yes. Theres no reason NOT to have one. As will all tools you choose to use it or not. However, its almost an essential tool for any serious raider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zocat Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Again - why not just implement it and everyone can chose if they want to use it & play with players who use it?Those who dont want to use it will not use it. And wont group with the players who use it.Those who want to use it will use it. And wont group with the players who wont use it. And a 3rd option for people who just dont care (like me). It would seem to be the best option for everyone. Other MMOs have similiar stuff. In LotRO you can go anonymous and people can no longer inspect you (your talents, your gear) anymore. There are some people who dont like that and they just dont group with the people who are anonymous. And the people who are anonymous dont want to play with those people anyway. Players will be elitists / failing noobs with and without something like recount. Why do you want to play with "idiots/elitists/scrubs" who dont share your gaming philosophie anyway? It will actually enhance the experience since you will play with people who share your opinion and no one will be frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migrayn Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 absolutely not still just like in beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hixt Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Does anyone opposed to recount have an argument that isn't based in fear or based on some arbitrary self imposed rules? Because I've yet to see one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovronius Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 It will actually enhance the experience since you will play with people who share your opinion and no one will be frustrated. If it's not an option, an opinion won't be relevant. If it is an option, then you will at times be forced to play with people with differing opinions on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) What you are going to do is have the moderator close the thread for calling people names. Fine I edited it because I am sure you guys are trying to report me because you are easily offended by words. No matter what they do there are going to be Epeen jerks. Having a meter will at least make sure they are not just blowing steam lul. Again the only reason I see people going against this is because you are concerned about being bad at DPS. There is no other possible reason. People are going to be jerks no matter what so you can't use that as a reason. Edited December 14, 2011 by Remidi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuimboQuambo Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Sorry bud but common sense does not tell you who is messing up and causing wipes and making a game not fun for everyone else. This is a game you are not Ms. Cleo and some psychic. It doesn't matter who is causing wipes. Wipes are part of the game and shouldn't be avoided like a plague (the game doesn't even punish you for death). And even if - you can very well find out who is causing wipes by looking at the game instead of something doing your job for you. Its not elitism. [...] I as a DPS want to be the best so I need a meter to min/max. LOL, nice self-contradiction in the same paragraph. How is WoW dumbed down? Heroic raids are quite the challenge and take lots of skill and time to beat. You just hate WoW and anything to do with it. This thread is about meters not WoW. Get over yourself. Read my post again - although I assume you are unable to do that properly based on your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 To summarize:If WoW did not have this option/mod it would not be an issue. Anything that has to do with WoW that is attempted to be brought into this game will receive much criticism and hate. Sorry to break it to you, but there is a reason why WoW has a billion(sarcasm) subscribers. In order to succeed as an MMO you HAVE to copy from them. Its funny because most of the haters say how easy WoW is and all this other junk. It has the best profession system out of any game, and its heroic raids are harder than any content in any other MMO. You are just hating and will say anything. I personally am down with WoW and can't wait to play this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovronius Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Does anyone opposed to recount have an argument that isn't based in fear or based on some arbitrary self imposed rules? Because I've yet to see one. Immersion, which I already mentioned. The fact that if on average it increases player performance by 20%, raids will be tuned to be 20% harder...(Or more when people scream that Awesome guild A beat new content on first day so it needs to be harder!) In the end, you'll be right where you started. And then since they are tuned for this, the "option" of not using them goes, pffft, out the window. Also, you will find far more people willing to play support/heal/tank roles when they don't have to constantly listen to DPS banter about their numbers. I know listening to that banter is what caused me to drop the healer gloves after 6 years of EQ healing and 2 years of WoW healing... So I could top the meters and then not say a word, and then rejoice in the silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) It doesn't matter who is causing wipes. Wipes are part of the game and shouldn't be avoided like a plague (the game doesn't even punish you for death). And even if - you can very well find out who is causing wipes by looking at the game instead of something doing your job for you. LOL, nice self-contradiction in the same paragraph. Read my post again - although I assume you are unable to do that properly based on your answer. Wanting to be good is not elitism....we can argue definitions all day. Sorry nobody wants to wipe all day. After the 5th time I want to know who the hell is causing it. What kind of reply are you even trying to make... Edited December 14, 2011 by Remidi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPredatorHunterX Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Fine I edited it because I am sure you guys are trying to report me because you are easily offended by words. No matter what they do there are going to be Epeen jerks. Having a meter will at least make sure they are not just blowing steam lul. Again the only reason I see people going against this is because you are concerned about being bad at DPS. There is no other possible reason. People are going to be jerks no matter what so you can't use that as a reason. I've been a gamer for longer you've probably been alive on the planet. I am in no way bad at what I do, and have SOME agreement in what your are saying. Your just not open to the other side of the story, using fallacies to promote your point and disavowing the other side with opinions. Both sides have merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I've been a gamer for longer you've probably been alive on the planet. I am in no way bad at what I do, and have SOME agreement in what your are saying. Your just not open to the other side of the story, using fallacies to promote your point and disavowing the other side with opinions. Both sides have merit. You ***** about elitism but yet you bring your age and experience into it....same thing bud. I am 32 btw. There is no arguing with the FACT that a DPS meter/Combat log helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrisonxxi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) THis game does punish you for deaths. Its called durability loss and time. Serious raiders go out of their way to avoid the second on at all cost, and since the first one takes significant amounts of time to get past, its usually a thing to be avoided. Edited December 14, 2011 by harrisonxxi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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