Darthbluginal Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Well, with the recent interview with massively @ It mentions that they like where sages/sorcs are at. I have been waiting, hoping for a legitimate way to manage resources, but that doesnt seem to be coming. Ive been trying different rotations, ussually tapping 3 times then healing trance on myself to counter the hp lost. Which is a positive gain of ~100 force. Still not ideal for pvp for obvious reasons. But I would just like to know how others are managing their force while healing. I think we have the toughest version of resource management and I really wish it would be looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farfulnugen Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Well, if you manage to get a cast off against a good team...cast as much as you can, then kill yourself. Best resource management there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthbluginal Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Actually, as depressing as that is, I actually do watch the door timers, and when it is getting close to release, if I am low on force, ill tap while ppl dps me so I can re spawn full. It is really sad that that is the best way to manage resources. I do agree that managing your resources should be a major part of playing a healer, but as it stands currently for sages/sorcs , resource management is at pathetic state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxprimalxx Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Its easy to manage all healing resources. Step 1 take all points out of healing tree Step 2 Put points into one or both of the dps trees. problem solved. Well, with the recent interview with massively @ It mentions that they like where sages/sorcs are at. I have been waiting, hoping for a legitimate way to manage resources, but that doesnt seem to be coming. Ive been trying different rotations, ussually tapping 3 times then healing trance on myself to counter the hp lost. Which is a positive gain of ~100 force. Still not ideal for pvp for obvious reasons. But I would just like to know how others are managing their force while healing. I think we have the toughest version of resource management and I really wish it would be looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancelotOC Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 You can use Concentration in Telekenetics and just cast some Disturbances. It's called Subversion in the lighting tree if you are a Sorc and your spell would be lighting strike. I always thought it wouldnt beworth it but having played with it for a good 5 weeks I can safely say it is rather decent mana regen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthbluginal Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 You can use Concentration in Telekenetics and just cast some Disturbances. It's called Subversion in the lighting tree if you are a Sorc and your spell would be lighting strike. I always thought it wouldnt beworth it but having played with it for a good 5 weeks I can safely say it is rather decent mana regen. I feel as this is not very reliable as a healer. 3 quick disturbance casts @ 28 force per = 84 force @ 3 stacks that is 30% higher force regen for 10 seconds (8 fps base) = 10.4 fps for 10 seconds. This is 104 force gained after 84 force lost. a total net of 20 force. This is not viable unless you are get 1 disturbance off before every 10s buff falls. This is great for dps, and I wish there was something similar to this with a healing skill, but as a healer, its not viable to be casting disturbance that often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancelotOC Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Are you sure it's ony 20 force gained? It just doesnt seem to be so little. I wouldnt be surprised if it actually gives more than the tooltip suggests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syntxerr Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 This is an interesting question and I believe they did an essential mistake not giving Sages/Sorcs any ways to regen Force in healing spec. Or let us put it that way: no way feasible in PVP. Tapping only once is a waste of time and resource. Tapping a few times is dangerous. In fact I believe the whole upper tier talent about Noble Sacrifice granting one use without stopping force regeneration is completely useless now. Both in PVP and in PVE. Because it is simply not worth using this way anymore. At the same time, I do understand that some people have complained about our resource, because we could freecast for quite a while before getting any form of trouble. At the same time, I don't think it was a bad solution back then. The other two healing classes just had deficits which needed to be adressed and noone would have complained about resourse anymore at all. For the sake of making a point here, I will not be mentioning Commandos/Mercs now. Essentially the issue was, that we had a few bugs. Like getting two casts off one proc, like double application of our AOE. Those needed change. The other two classes needed their AOEs buffed a bit and that would've made all the difference. The complaints would've been gone. Pretty much how currently Scoundrels/Operatives are. They got a few meaningful buffs and fare very well. At the same time it is possible for Scoundrels to heal forever. This was true for Commandos pre 1.2 as well. Obviously can a Sage chain many more big heals in row because of the debth of his resouce. We should however consider that the Scoundrel simply has a different mechanic, which includes having multiple HoTs and an AOE HoT, which can all be activated on the move and where energy keeps on regenerating while those tick, all of those generate Upper Hand procs, which in turn can be used for a free instant heal. So essentially, considering all mechanics it wouldn't be true to say that the Scoundrel can't heal as well as the Sage. And this wouldn't be less true if our resource management didn't change. In fact things would be more or less equal because Scoundrels can dish out insane amounts of healing infinitely. Without bugs, I'd dare to compare the raw output of single target healing, because most of our healing comes from longer casts, instead of HoTs and Instants and because our resource management pre 1.2 required the waste of one GCD every time after channeling Healing Trance. Also very important to consider is the difference in resource regeneration, where we suffer the consequences of having a deep pool. It regenerates very slowly. On top of that the other two healing classes come with an ability on medium cooldown which allows them to instantly refill a certain amount of their resource. So this allows not only for forgiving but also for situational play, where a resouce can be intentionally exploited to the very end, in order to do a significant amount of burst healing just to fill it up afterwards in order to reach high regenerative levels again. We don't have any such thing, either. So essentially we are left without a regeneration ability and without a real talent which recovers force reliably when using a certain ability, which puts us at a huge disadvantage. Noble Sacrifice is currently lackluster and useless in PVP. They should really invent something else, because no other class has such resource problems. Not our healing collegue and no DPS class. All of them can rebuild resource by using one of their core abilities running some toned down rotation. We can't. As people have said above, it can be very frustrating when you have to run to the enemy so he can kill you in order for you to regain resource and because it is faster this way than trying to find some dark corner where you can lifetap yourself in peace. It also puts us at a disadvantage, because throwing in random DPS when needed became quite a bit of an issue, since we always have to consider whether we can afford it or not and essentially contributes to ending up starved quicker. This is also essentially different from a Scoundrel, where the consideration of throwing in some DPS remains significant only for a few seconds until energy regenerates again. At the moment, considering both survivability and resource management changes, I feel Sages/Sorcs are simply too busy with themselves. Too much attention and time needs to be spent on self preservation and micro managment, rather then contributing to the teamplay. It feels a bit annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthbluginal Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) Are you sure it's ony 20 force gained? It just doesnt seem to be so little. I wouldnt be surprised if it actually gives more than the tooltip suggests. According to what the tool tips are, it is correct. However; if you are able to consistently keep 3 stacks up, the return overtime is pretty significant. Im gonna have some discussion with the smugg pvp healers I play with, and do some comparisons on regen and post my thoughts. But seriously. no one has any input on how they effectively manage their sage healer resources? Edited May 16, 2012 by Darthbluginal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmack Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Cast until your bar is empty /stuck Cast until your bar is empty Most efficient way to lay out heals as sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancelotOC Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 (edited) There is a whole thread in the Healer forums where a guy did the math for every force regen mechanic and came down to the most efficient one. It has to do with casting an AE heal and standing in it to pump 2 noble sacrifices. I can see this being rather ridiculous for PVP.. to charge into the fray to cast an AE heal so it heals enough people to make it worthwhile while casting Noble sacrifice on yourself. lol Seriously though I just pvped all night with the Transedance spell as regen. It again worked fine so I'm still doubting the tootip represents the actual gain. Edited May 16, 2012 by LancelotOC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthbluginal Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 There is a whole thread in the Healer forums where a guy did the math for every force regen mechanic and came down to the most efficient one. It has to do with casting an AE heal and standing in it to pump 2 noble sacrifices. I can see this being rather ridiculous for PVP.. to charge into the fray to cast an AE heal so it heals enough people to make it worthwhile while casting Noble sacrifice on yourself. lol Seriously though I just pvped all night with the Transedance spell as regen. It again worked fine so I'm still doubting the tootip represents the actual gain. First, what "transedance" spell for regen are you speaking of. the only transendence spell I know is the sent group sprint. And yes, the options available are "fine" and I do great in pvp. But our regen mechanics are still a joke. at BASE levels I regen 1.3% of my pool per second. A smugg healer will regen 5% of their resource per second. On top of that they have like 3 (?) abilities to actively regen their resources. compared to my 1 ability that damages for 2800 HP for 48 force. I understand that we have deep pools, but that is why we have a lower base regen rate. completely understandable, and yea maybe they should have more ways to regen then us, But the difference right now is bananas. Thank you for the /stuck tip that should work much better than anything I am currently doing. I really hope BW reads this and notices how laughable it is that my team is going to be calling when the doors are about to open so that I type /stuck because I have no legitimate form of pvp regen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Play a Healer/DPS Hybrid with Effusion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Mercs are the turret healers. Not Sorcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancelotOC Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 First, what "transedance" spell for regen are you speaking of. the only transendence spell I know is the sent group sprint. Sorry meant Disturbance spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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