1.2 melee buff and the fate of the ranged classes

[Chabodeux]

I guess you all rolled a juggernaut/marauder already, that could be the only rational explanation, why isnt the forum flooded with NERF threads.

Warriors became too powerful, which made them TOO POPULAR. No resource bar ROOT, charge immunity, overpowered slow/control mechanism's leave no room for any ranged, especially not for sages. A single warrior can kill a sage in no time, but what if 2 or 3 charges you... OF course you could say that 3 sages would do the same to a warrior, but thats not quite true. And here we run into our second problem, WARRIOR SURV. Really? Insane damage reduction talents, saber ward, last stand, intervene, AOE BLIND, KNOCKBACK, and the best and cheapest AOE SLOW in the game...

Warriors, both jugs and marauders CRIT FOR 7k , with both masterstrike and SWEEP/EXECUTE. 3 hardest hitting abilities belong to the same class, and you think its *********** BALANCED? Practicly its like if i started from 70% hp, since under 30% i get chain executed. ANd thanks to UNAVOIDABLE DAMAGE warrior mechanisms, you find yourself under 30% in an eyeblink, no matter how geared or skilled you are...

[majahlaza]

I guess you all rolled a juggernaut/marauder already, that could be the only rational explanation, why isnt the forum flooded with NERF threads.

Warriors became too powerful, which made them TOO POPULAR. No resource bar ROOT, charge immunity, overpowered slow/control mechanism's leave no room for any ranged, especially not for sages. A single warrior can kill a sage in no time, but what if 2 or 3 charges you... OF course you could say that 3 sages would do the same to a warrior, but thats not quite true. And here we run into our second problem, WARRIOR SURV. Really? Insane damage reduction talents, saber ward, last stand, intervene, AOE BLIND, KNOCKBACK, and the best and cheapest AOE SLOW in the game...

Warriors, both jugs and marauders CRIT FOR 7k , with both masterstrike and SWEEP/EXECUTE. 3 hardest hitting abilities belong to the same class, and you think its *********** BALANCED? Practicly its like if i started from 70% hp, since under 30% i get chain executed. ANd thanks to UNAVOIDABLE DAMAGE warrior mechanisms, you find yourself under 30% in an eyeblink, no matter how geared or skilled you are...

 

I feel your pain my sage brotha

[mechintel]

3 hardest hitting abilities belong to the same class, and you think its *********** BALANCED?

 

^ This was my favorite part because it implies that Bioware thought.

[unicornfive]

I guess you all rolled a juggernaut/marauder already, that could be the only rational explanation, why isnt the forum flooded with NERF threads.

Warriors became too powerful, which made them TOO POPULAR. No resource bar ROOT, charge immunity, overpowered slow/control mechanism's leave no room for any ranged, especially not for sages. A single warrior can kill a sage in no time, but what if 2 or 3 charges you... OF course you could say that 3 sages would do the same to a warrior, but thats not quite true. And here we run into our second problem, WARRIOR SURV. Really? Insane damage reduction talents, saber ward, last stand, intervene, AOE BLIND, KNOCKBACK, and the best and cheapest AOE SLOW in the game...

Warriors, both jugs and marauders CRIT FOR 7k , with both masterstrike and SWEEP/EXECUTE. 3 hardest hitting abilities belong to the same class, and you think its *********** BALANCED? Practicly its like if i started from 70% hp, since under 30% i get chain executed. ANd thanks to UNAVOIDABLE DAMAGE warrior mechanisms, you find yourself under 30% in an eyeblink, no matter how geared or skilled you are...

 

Dear Bioware.

Plz nerf juggernauts, because marauders are OP.

[mechintel]

Dear Bioware.

Plz nerf juggernauts, because marauders are OP.

 

Juggs do far more damage than Marauders. They just... ironically... don't have as much survivability.

 

True story, a Jugg smashed me for 7549 damage today. Thank god I wasn't standing in a group or he would have breached nearly 40k damage in a single button press. Do you think that is balanced?

Edited May 5, 2012 by mechintel

[unicornfive]

Juggs do far more damage than Marauders. They just... ironically... don't have as much survivability.

 

Cause we all know that Ravage with 2 sabers + Gore 100% armor ignore, does less dmg than a 1h simple jugg ravage.

The vengeance spec bleeds that hit for 70-80 dmg per tick, do more dmg than annihilation mara dots...

The force scream not only has +30% crit dmg on rage spec, but on carnage spec too, unlike jugg that has it only on rage..

 

How exactly jugg does more dmg than mara? Care to explain to us?

[mechintel]

How exactly jugg does more dmg than mara? Care to explain to us?

 

v v v v *cough* v v v v *cough* v v v v

 

True story, a Jugg smashed me for 7549 damage today. Thank god I wasn't standing in a group or he would have breached nearly 40k damage in a single button press. Do you think that is balanced?

 

The marauder would have only AOEd me for 6k.

 

EDIT: Also LOL if you are a Jugg pvping as Vengence.

Edited May 5, 2012 by mechintel

[Naizgrel]

You people are overreacting, i have no problem killing a marauder, even with the buff, all you need to do is KITE, Dont just stand there and let him get rage, IF he uses Ravage MOVE, It is so easy to beat a mara 1v1 its not funny. All you need to do is kite.

[mechintel]

You people are overreacting, i have no problem killing a marauder, even with the buff, all you need to do is KITE, Dont just stand there and let him get rage, IF he uses Ravage MOVE, It is so easy to beat a mara 1v1 its not funny. All you need to do is kite.

 

If only there was 1 of them... unfortunately 75% of warzones are now either marauders juggs. With the short cooldown on leaps, I once had a second where I wasn't rooted to the ground. True story.

[unicornfive]

v v v v *cough* v v v v *cough* v v v v

 

 

 

The marauder would have only AOEd me for 6k.

 

I managed to crit 7500 on my jugg too once...

Thanks to my good marauder friend with 15% dmg increase buff, my biochem stims, the expertise wz buff and the almost naked sorc that just dinged 50 and got hit by it.

It doesnt matter that the mara i also hit with smash, took 2k crit cause of his cloak of pain + 30% aoe dmg reduce, the powertech nearby got crited by 3200 and the tank that barely got scratched with defensive cds on. Hey, at least i crited once 7500!! And im happy because mara ,with exactly the same rage talents after 1.2 in rage spec, plus his group +dmg increase buff, cant crit as high as jugg!! Because of....i dont know...but he doesnt because someone on forums said so!!

[Tumri]

If only there was 1 of them... unfortunately 75% of warzones are now either marauders juggs. With the short cooldown on leaps, I once had a second where I wasn't rooted to the ground. True story.

 

So you go killed by multiple players ganging up on you. Boo hoo.

[Arzoo]

Clearly high damage is OK if it doesn't work when everyone in the vicinity pops their defensive cooldowns the moment the fight starts (to be fair that is an entirely reasonable tactic considering that reactive shield shield lasts 2x as long as the average TTK, and cloak of pain's duration is frankly bs in general).

[Modtx]

How exactly jugg does more dmg than mara? Care to explain to us?

 

If you don't know how, YouTube "Naomi Chomsky" and watch her 3 vids. Second one has a 744k Voidstar. Also, the highest screenshotted damage is of a jugg doing 1mil in Civil War.

[Migrayn]

clearly 6-7k hits are fine even if they are aoe as long as you can see your attacker first. Scoundrels were neffed at least 3 timez because they could hit for 5-6k on one person if they popped all stims and got behind someone.

 

But its fine for warriors with more survivability to hitharder then a supposed burst class that has crap for defence and zero out of stealth dps.

 

Be glad teams of warriors are not forcing people to unsub or else they will get nerced too.

[mechintel]

Clearly we've fallen back into thinking Bioware thought about and tested these changes before implementing them.

[Dracosz]

clearly 6-7k hits are fine even if they are aoe as long as you can see your attacker first. Scoundrels were neffed at least 3 timez because they could hit for 5-6k on one person if they popped all stims and got behind someone.

 

But its fine for warriors with more survivability to hitharder then a supposed burst class that has crap for defence and zero out of stealth dps.

 

Be glad teams of warriors are not forcing people to unsub or else they will get nerced too.

 

If you're getting crit for 7k then you have no expertise whatsoever, that's your own fault. A full set of recruit gear is ~900 expertise, that's more than enough to offset a significant chunk of the damage that you're taking.

 

Vengeance is a very strong spec right now due to the fact that it has multiple hard-hitting abilities that can be used in succession as well as high mobility and survivability. That being said, there are other classes out there (namely annih/carnage marauaders) that have far better survivability and just as much damage. If rage juggs are your concern, then you clearly don't know how to handle them, they are VERY easy to control and mitigate so long as you time your knockbacks.

 

If you're a sage/sorc and die constantly to vengeance juggernauts, the best things I can tell you are the following:

 

- Wait for unstoppable to fade before you try to knock back: Seriously, I can't tell you the number of times I've seen idiot sorcs try to push me off before it fades.

- Kite: We have only one snare as vengeance and it's not very strong (50%). Rage has a stronger snare, but is more susceptible to knockbacks.

- Stun ravage: Seriously, don't waste your stun and give me free resolve. You need to use that stun properly and effectively and ravage, as my hardest hitting ability, need to be interrupted.

 

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As for your operative whining, quit it. Good operatives have adapted and moved on (my friend still pulls 500k+ damage every game on his toon)

[Dracosz]

If you don't know how, YouTube "Naomi Chomsky" and watch her 3 vids. Second one has a 744k Voidstar. Also, the highest screenshotted damage is of a jugg doing 1mil in Civil War.

 

Old stuff (pre-surge nerf). Rage still does high AoE damage, but with expertise scaling and with nerfs to the spec's burst damage and rage efficiency, it doesn't do anywhere near that kind of damage anymore.

[mechintel]

If you're getting crit for 7k then you have no expertise whatsoever, that's your own fault. A full set of recruit gear is ~900 expertise, that's more than enough to offset a significant chunk of the damage that you're taking.

 

False. I was hit for 7549 damage yesterday and I have 1266 expertise. It was a rage Jugg. You can say "Oh well you should have blah blah blah" The fact is, I wasn't even targeting him when he did it. Warzones are not duels. Getting a smash off is easier than you think.

[Dracosz]

False. I was hit for 7549 damage yesterday and I have 1266 expertise. It was a rage Jugg. You can say "Oh well you should have blah blah blah" The fact is, I wasn't even targeting him when he did it. Warzones are not duels. Getting a smash off is easier than you think.

 

Do you have a screenshot of this vaunted crit? I thought not.

 

Regardless, it was your own fault for not recognizing the threat and responding accordingly. You even said "I wasn't targeting him when he did it". To me, that demonstrates a lack of positional and situational awareness.

 

As it stands, rage is an awful spec due to it's horrid rage generation and damage sustainability and only players that see the "BIG NUMBER RAWR" seem to think that it's worth playing. The fact of the matter is that the spec, in and of itself, does not have much else that deals a lot of damage outside the "Big burst rotation". One off hits like that happen once in a blue moon and are not a consistent factor in group play.

[unicornfive]

False. I was hit for 7549 damage yesterday and I have 1266 expertise. It was a rage Jugg. You can say "Oh well you should have blah blah blah" The fact is, I wasn't even targeting him when he did it. Warzones are not duels. Getting a smash off is easier than you think.

 

After 1.2 maras got the same rage talents as jugg, and they can crit higher cause of their 15% group dmg buff....

U dont see that often cause 90% are anni, and 9% carnage, i barely see rage mara. But when is see, they crit as high as rage juggs and even higher..

[slowantics]

wz in my server are usually still 4-6 inqus. then 1 bh and a mara/jugg

[mechintel]

U dont see that often cause 90% are anni, and 9% carnage, i barely see rage mara. But when is see, they crit as high as rage juggs and even higher..

 

I wish I played on your ****** server where it seems obvious no one knows how to play their class.

Edited May 5, 2012 by mechintel

[unicornfive]

I wish I played on your ****** server where it seems obvious no one knows how to play their class.

 

P R O V E it that juggs do more dmg than maras and stop pulling numbers out of your a**

[mechintel]

P R O V E it that juggs do more dmg than maras and stop pulling numbers out of your a**

 

I don't have to prove anything. I didn't screenshot the 7549 hit, because I routinely get hit above 7000 with smash/force sweeps on my server. I'm sure they pop trinkets/overcharge consumables to do it, but if I do the same thing as a sorc I am lucky to get a 4k hit off with my death field, and that only hits a max of 3 targets, not 5 like smash/sweep does.

 

If it makes you feel better, I'll screenshot the next one, but a rage-specced Jugg is the most devastating thing in the game right now when it comes to that smash. Maybe outside that smash they don't do much, but who really cares about sustained dps in PvP. You know who has good sustained dps right now? Sorcs. Where does that get them? No where. PvP is all about burst and Juggs have that in spades. The whole rage tree needs to be nerfed.

Edited May 5, 2012 by mechintel

[Baizak]

I call BS. My main is an Inf/shad and I have no problem with a jug/guard of any spec. Now Mara/sent can give me a fit if the player knows what he is doing.