dprijadi Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I am very angry this post wasn't closed because of the fact your community people move/delete these posts as soon as they pop up. I've had posts like this closed before yet you guys suddenly change your minds and let us talk about our own community. Here's the most Bioware communication we get: Thread says something specific that is new: Community person: We're sorry but we have to close this because there's a 60k post thread that was made 3 months ago that already exist that we encourage everyone to necropost so we don't have to read any of your posts...Sorry about that. And guess what? This crap makes me wanna hit the cancel button. this is a new one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprijadi Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 OP ask and dev answer fast.. as far as i know this post is done the additional questions already discussed in other thread so no need to repeat it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kthx Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) ICommunity person: We're sorry but we have to close this because there's a 60k post thread that was made 3 months ago that already exist that we encourage everyone to necropost so we don't have to read any of your posts...Sorry about that. Congratulations, you just won the hyperbole-of-the-day award. Very creative complaint, though! Edited April 30, 2012 by Kthx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but the pre-launch forums were just as bad. They were filled with constant complaints about the game being delayed over and over again and that it would fail at launch. The doomsayers were there 2 years ago and they're still here.....lol. In beta the forums were as bad as well with allot of the complaints we read here being said in beta! Personally I dont think this forum has ever had a constructive community except for the first week it opened. After that it was haters vrs fanbois and those in the middle were left wondering why even bother. The first week of the TOR forums was great with everyone talkinga bout what they wanted to see and why and everyone filled with anticipation and excitement. As for the mechanics the mod mentioned. Speaking for myself I dont use Twitter, stopped following TOR Facebook (you want haters, go read a facebook thread), and rarely read the dev trackers and other promotional info sites you like to use. I can totally get on board with OP wanting interaction on the forums. And to be honest, this is the second MMO (first was DAoC as VN had the official forums rather then Mythic running them) I seen where there is no active interaction between devs/community relations leader and the community. Still for me at least its low priority, much rather see a community start to form inside game then on the forums. Im sure if you made seperate private server forums (not just a tag line but a individual forum that requires a active account for each server) a community on the forums would start to appear and much of the nonsense on the general forums would disappear as players would have a dedicated area to interact with other players of the same server. In a sence, the nonsense on the general forums are a natural extention of not supplying the most basic of community building concepts for the active subscriber base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickRedOne Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) As for the mechanics the mod mentioned. Speaking for myself I dont use Twitter, stopped following TOR Facebook (you want haters, go read a facebook thread), and rarely read the dev trackers and other promotional info sites you like to use. I can totally get on board with OP wanting interaction on the forums. And to be honest, this is the second MMO (first was DAoC as VN had the official forums rather then Mythic running them) I seen where there is no active interaction between devs/community relations leader and the community. Well this might be the reasons you don't see any interaction, since you don't follow much. I suggest you follow SR on twitter, and take a look at the Dev Tracker here on the site. Now as an improvement I would like to see an Icon on threads that have a "Yellow" post in them. Much like Blizzard and other games do. Edited April 30, 2012 by RickRedOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiars Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I suggest checking out our patch notes, community blog, news site, weekly Q&As, Weekly Dev Track Summary Blogs, Weekly Patch Notes Updates, and of course, here in General Discussion, to name a few places. Of course, our general policy is to not talk in detail about specific features until we are 100% sure that it is on its way. You can imagine what would happen if we gave a specific date, months in advance, only to come up against an unforeseen obstacle that causes us to delay a particular feature. This is why you'll see many replies by us and our developers that simply say "soon". I would like to suggest that waiting for 100% is a formula for disaster. Games like SWG followed this policy and quickly earned the distrust of the player base. One of the biggest problems was that if you wait till you are 100% sure that something will be added and the implementation is hated by all players, there is no opportunity to change and you ship something that upsets the player base needlessly. The SWG team did announce a few things that they were considering doing. In two cases the community rejected the proposal for very good reasons. This saved the development team considerable effort on something that would needlessly upset players. In other cases the feedback guided the development team to implement things that were greatly loved by the players and were seen as a great improvement to the game. WoW does have some upset players, but in general when they make dramatic changes to the game they have won over the majority of players because they start talking about things when they only think that there is a 50-60% chance of being in game. Often most of the discussion is why they feel the change is needed to make the game better and players do suggest alternate mechanism to achieve the same goal. But even there the WoW development team has dropped some things because the players proposed better ways to achieve the same goal or the development costs of what they were planning grew to the point that they needed to drop it and cut their losses. But they have gained far more trust from their player community than other MMORPGs. I have long advocated that being open and talking more about less than 100% plans is the only thing that games should copy from WoW. Since this has been shown in the games that do it to increase trust in what the developers say. As you can see in the discussion about this game the developers are quickly loosing credibility with the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malanoth Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Everything is too little too late. Everything. I love the game. But it shipped unfinished. It should have never been released in the state it was. When you are introducing a modern MMO in todays climate it has to have the tools and utilities that other games have. Do we have to wait 3-5 years for BW to patch this game to somewhere where it should be today? In no particular order; No raid tools. No guild tools. No dungeon finder. No dual spec. No gear swapping tools. No spell/proc alert tool or debuff watcher No combat log. No organised PvP. No macro's (not even the the very basic ones) No healer UI tools ( mouseover healing) The game SHOULD have shipped with all these things from the get-go. BW spent too much time on the voice-overs and 'single-player' story. Had they spent more time on developing everything on that list above I am alsmost certain their subscriber numbers would be double what they are now. Its the lack of those things that is drving away subscribers and its a crying shame. You cannot ship a game that takes you back in time at least 3+ years in terms of features, tools, and utilities in an MMO. You have to match the current crop of MMO features, tools and utlitities for cementing those strong foundations, then you build a strong MMO by delivering strong and appealing content. SWTOR shipped as a stripped down version of an MMO akin to something that may have been released 4 years ago because of its lack of tools and features. Current subscribers now have to wait for dual specs. They have to wait for better raid and guild tools. They have to wait for Dungeon Finder, which is next I know, but its still too late. They have to wait for everythign they should have now. How long do BW expect players to wait for tools and features that should be in the game TODAY? I would not call the launch a sucess at all. Sucess would be a steady growth in subscribers, even after you factor in the trialers and free-monthers who disappear back to their other distractions. This is why subscribers, who are the people that really wanted this game to work and be great, are the people that are deserting the game and the trend will continue. And its all because of the lack of features and tools. Shame on you BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Karsk Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Of course, our general policy is to not talk in detail about specific features until we are 100% sure that it is on its way. You can imagine what would happen if we gave a specific date, months in advance, only to come up against an unforeseen obstacle that causes us to delay a particular feature. This is why you'll see many replies by us and our developers that simply say "soon". [/color] The fact that you ignore the most valid questions and just close threads doesnt help. It is because of us the players you guys have a paycheck. This is one of the mayor reasons the game have lost so many subs.No one is asking for a date 3 months before it's ready.But players want to know if this game have a future, whats going on. What is bioware working on.... Things like this you ignore What will space combat be like ? About when will we see minigames we can bet on ? What will the next Raid be about ? When will we actually see STAR WARS armors ? When can we toggle hood up/down ? Will we get a real end game planet for open word PvP ? Legacy thats goes across account not server And btw the dev tracker most weeks are pretty much dead.Now and then a dev will answear a question on friday about crafting or what ever just so they have talk about something.To be very honest and i think most players still subbing share this opnion, you as a MMO company have the worst dialog with the player base of any MMO house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altinar Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Of course, our general policy is to not talk in detail about specific features until we are 100% sure that it is on its way. You can imagine what would happen if we gave a specific date, months in advance, only to come up against an unforeseen obstacle that causes us to delay a particular feature. This is why you'll see many replies by us and our developers that simply say "soon". I can imagine what would happen...you would get some people, probably less than those who complain about having no date at all, complaining that a date wasn't given. Giving an estimate is very different from setting a date in stone, and most people simply want an estimate. Even if you can only give a worst case scenario estimate, honesty is far better than just keeping us out of the process and either assuming we're too stupid or too opinionated/biased to understand that things might delay you. A crucial part of securing a community that trusts its developer is communication: letting us know estimates on the release of content, giving thoughtful and developed responses to sincere and meaningful questions asked by a good portion of the forum community, and not making assumptions about the intelligence or amicability of your playerbase are all very important parts of this. As it stands, all three are being handled exceptionally poorly, and no amount of people brown-nosing and calling others dumb for questioning the almighty devs/moderators when you post in threads will change that. Your post in this thread is appreciated, but it doesn't solve the problem and it's merely a subtle way of saying that you're too afraid of any more negative attention to take a risk and reach out to your community. Tell the other devs to think, just for a moment, about what they stand to gain if they endure a bit more negative attention in exchange for gaining a substantial amount of trust from the community by actually acknowledging that we and our thoughts, posts, and subscriptions are all integral to your game succeeding. Edited May 11, 2012 by Altinar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickRedOne Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I can imagine what would happen...you would get some people, probably less than those who complain about having no date at all, complaining that a date wasn't given. Giving an estimate is very different from setting a date in stone, and most people simply want an estimate. You must not read the forums much.. They can't even give something like "Early April" without people having a fit when the 10th of April came and people were crying "You promised Early April!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickRedOne Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) The fact that you ignore the most valid questions and just close threads doesnt help. It is because of us the players you guys have a paycheck. This is one of the mayor reasons the game have lost so many subs.No one is asking for a date 3 months before it's ready.But players want to know if this game have a future, whats going on. What is bioware working on.... Things like this you ignore What will space combat be like ? About when will we see minigames we can bet on ? What will the next Raid be about ? When will we actually see STAR WARS armors ? When can we toggle hood up/down ? Will we get a real end game planet for open word PvP ? Legacy thats goes across account not server And btw the dev tracker most weeks are pretty much dead.Now and then a dev will answear a question on friday about crafting or what ever just so they have talk about something.To be very honest and i think most players still subbing share this opnion, you as a MMO company have the worst dialog with the player base of any MMO house. They have answered all these things, some are "We are working on fixing", some are "We have plans, but can't discuss them yet", some have been "No plans for that right now". Just because people don't like the answers, and keep asking the same questions hoping to get different answers, doesn't change the fact that they have been answered. Edited May 11, 2012 by RickRedOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altinar Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 You must not read the forums much.. They can't even give something like "Early April" without people having a fit when the 10th of April came and people were crying "You promised Early April!!!" And you must not have read my post much... it's in your selective quote that I said they will undoubtedly get people who complain when the date rolls around and they don't fulfill it, but I suspect that far more people are pissed off by the fact that no date is given whatsoever. Devs are the ones who post the threads that announce these due dates, and you can be damn sure that when a dev makes a thread, people pay attention and swarm it with responses. When said threads aren't made, it doesn't mean that those aggravated people magically disappeared, it means that the people who want an estimate simply aren't posting threads, and they don't do so for multiple reasons. Assuming that just because there isn't a single thread with thousands of angry replies that there are, in turn, no people pissed off by the lack of an estimate is completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickRedOne Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 And you must not have read my post much... it's in your selective quote that I said they will undoubtedly get people who complain when the date rolls around and they don't fulfill it, but I suspect that far more people are pissed off by the fact that no date is given whatsoever. Devs are the ones who post the threads that announce these due dates, and you can be damn sure that when a dev makes a thread, people pay attention and swarm it with responses. When said threads aren't made, it doesn't mean that those aggravated people magically disappeared, it means that the people who want an estimate simply aren't posting threads, and they don't do so for multiple reasons. Assuming that just because there isn't a single thread with thousands of angry replies that there are, in turn, no people pissed off by the lack of an estimate is completely wrong. But when they get hundreds of posts with people bi**hing about "missing a Promised" date, when there is no promise, that is why they shouldn't give even a guess date anymore. Yes there are the sane and sensible ones of us who know dates are never set in stone, but we are few are far between. Go back and look at the thread on the 11th of April about them missing the 1.2 date. (and yes I read all your post, but only quoted the part that explains why they can't give out dates till they are really sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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