Incurable heal debuffs need to go

[Xerain]

I think you can dispel that

 

Proof. Marauders was dispellable before and snipers didn't have theirs yet so nothing in patch notes about it.

[Erynz]

I don't recall ever mentioning 1v1.

 

I just meant that logically, a heal debuff that can be removed by any person that it would be useful against seems like a waste of both a GCD and an ability in general.

 

When do you want to use the debuff? When there's a healer nearby.

 

When there's a healer nearby, the debuff will be cleansed (faster than you can reapply it).

 

Why would you even apply the debuff unless you felt that you were fighting against a braindead team who didn't know where their dispel button was? It's literally nothing but a waste of resources in this case.

 

And you're ignoring the fact that if you have 2 maras or a sniper and a mara, they could stagger how they apply their heal debuff, so that the healer will only be able to cure one of them at a time. You know that thing called teamwork and actually watching what is on a player. At the moment, healers get a permanent 20% heal debuff in WZs from just ONE mara or sniper, on top of the 30% trauma debuff. It's one of the main reasons TTK has lowered after 1.2.

[ugig]

I don't recall ever mentioning 1v1.

 

I just meant that logically, a heal debuff that can be removed by any person that it would be useful against seems like a waste of both a GCD and an ability in general.

 

When do you want to use the debuff? When there's a healer nearby.

 

When there's a healer nearby, the debuff will be cleansed (faster than you can reapply it).

 

Why would you even apply the debuff unless you felt that you were fighting against a braindead team who didn't know where their dispel button was? It's literally nothing but a waste of resources in this case.

 

You could use the same argument over casting any cast time heal when there are interupts near. Almost every dps has an interupt, when yould you need to cast a heal? when DPS is nearby, but when DPS is nearby that heal would get interupted (and locked out for longer than it takes then to kill you) But you still heal because not every DPS is smart enough to find their interupt at the correct moment, just like not every healer is smart enough to find their cleanse at the correct moment.

[Erynz]

I'm pretty sure the trauma debuff isn't actually reducing healing by 30%. Though my sorc. isn't heal-specced, my dark infusion crits for ~5400 when I don't have the trauma debuff and ~4800 when I do have the trauma debuff. I have a feeling that the trauma debuff value is somewhere between 10-15% but they haven't gotten around to updating the tooltip (much in the same manner that they haven't even gotten around to removing the bolster stat icon and its tooltip for lv. 50 warzone pvp). .

 

 

You are forgetting the contribution expertise makes to healing. In full BM you will have 12% more healing, so it will offset trauma to 18%.

[Varicite]

And you're ignoring the fact that if you have 2 maras or a sniper and a mara, they could stagger how they apply their heal debuff, so that the healer will only be able to cure one of them at a time. You know that thing called teamwork and actually watching what is on a player. At the moment, healers get a permanent 20% heal debuff in WZs from just ONE mara or sniper, on top of the 30% trauma debuff. It's one of the main reasons TTK has lowered after 1.2.

 

I'm not ignoring that fact at all, because as soon as you start to throw "teamwork" into the mix, a 2nd healer counters anything you just said. It's just as common to be in a WZ against 2-3 healers as it is to be against 2-3 Marauders.

 

And like another poster mentioned, Expertise offsets the healing debuff so that it's not actually 30% when you are geared correctly for PvP.

 

You could use the same argument over casting any cast time heal when there are interupts near. Almost every dps has an interupt, when yould you need to cast a heal? when DPS is nearby, but when DPS is nearby that heal would get interupted (and locked out for longer than it takes then to kill you) But you still heal because not every DPS is smart enough to find their interupt at the correct moment, just like not every healer is smart enough to find their cleanse at the correct moment.

 

There's also the fact that interrupts are on CDs, and there are multiple heals to use. Even if you are fighting someone who uses an interrupt on every CD, you are still able to heal.

 

If you cleanse the Trauma debuff, it cannot be reapplied for another 15 seconds. The cd on dispels is 4.5 seconds. Every single time Trauma is used, it can be dispelled immediately. This is not the case w/ interrupting heals.

 

If you are a healer fighting a DPS class, I hope you are fully expecting them to be using their interrupt on your cast-time heals every cooldown. Just like if I were a Marauder, I would fully expect you to dispel my Trauma debuff every time I use it.

 

I'd use it once, and if you dispelled it, I very likely would not waste the resources on using it again because unlike your healing, you can effectively stop me from EVER benefitting from the debuff, whereas you will eventually be able to get a heal off even if I interrupt you every single cd.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Varicite

[Erynz]

 

There's also the fact that interrupts are on CDs, and there are multiple heals to use. Even if you are fighting someone who uses an interrupt on every CD, you are still able to heal.

 

If you cleanse the Trauma debuff, it cannot be reapplied for another 15 seconds. The cd on dispels is 4.5 seconds. Every single time Trauma is used, it can be dispelled immediately. This is not the case w/ interrupting heals.

 

If you are a healer fighting a DPS class, I hope you are fully expecting them to be using their interrupt on your cast-time heals every cooldown. Just like if I were a Marauder, I would fully expect you to dispel my Trauma debuff every time I use it.

 

I'd use it once, and if you dispelled it, I very likely would not waste the resources on using it again because unlike your healing, you can effectively stop me from EVER benefitting from the debuff, whereas you will eventually be able to get a heal off even if I interrupt you every single cd.

 

Thats BS and you know it. If a mara uses their mutliple interrupts to keep a healer from casting, that healer will be dead before it even gets to a stage where there are no interrupts left from the mara. TBH maras should only have 1 interrupt period. Then maybe I will agree that heal debuffs should not be curable.

[Xerain]

Thats BS and you know it. If a mara uses their mutliple interrupts to keep a healer from casting, that healer will be dead before it even gets to a stage where there are no interrupts left from the mara. TBH maras should only have 1 interrupt period. Then maybe I will agree that heal debuffs should not be curable.

 

marauders only have 1 interrupt period. Everyone else can use their stuns, mezzes, knock backs, and pulls to interrupt also...

[fungihoujo]

Trauma debuff barely matters- any marauder who isn't completely terrible will prevent a healer from getting off any heals in the time it takes to kill them anyway.

[fungihoujo]

marauders only have 1 interrupt period. Everyone else can use their stuns, mezzes, knock backs, and pulls to interrupt also...

 

Between stun, leap interrupt, interrupt on super low CD, mez- a marauder can keep a healer from casting for about 16 seconds- or at least limit them to their insignificant heals and hots. And in the meantime- a marauder is doing more damage than a healer could heal anyway- healers end up with over half their healing being nerfed between trauma and the marauder trauma debuff which stack- whereas marauders end up with a large damage bonus from expertise.... on top of how weak healing is and how strong marauder dps is to begin with.

[ugig]

There's also the fact that interrupts are on CDs, and there are multiple heals to use. Even if you are fighting someone who uses an interrupt on every CD, you are still able to heal.

 

If you cleanse the Trauma debuff, it cannot be reapplied for another 15 seconds. The cd on dispels is 4.5 seconds. Every single time Trauma is used, it can be dispelled immediately. This is not the case w/ interrupting heals.

 

If you are a healer fighting a DPS class, I hope you are fully expecting them to be using their interrupt on your cast-time heals every cooldown. Just like if I were a Marauder, I would fully expect you to dispel my Trauma debuff every time I use it.

 

I'd use it once, and if you dispelled it, I very likely would not waste the resources on using it again because unlike your healing, you can effectively stop me from EVER benefitting from the debuff, whereas you will eventually be able to get a heal off even if I interrupt you every single cd.

 

If things were 1v1 then this ^^ would be a valid complaint, but there are 3 of you DPS for every healer in a WZ, most of the time more than that, so someones debuff will stick for long enough to kill the target. Our cleanse is on about the same CD as your interupt, 2 interupters on a healer can effectivly lock that healer out of all but the smallest heals, and with the large numbers flying around WZ's these days small heals just dont cut it.

 

And lets not forget that cc and knockbacks also interupt casted heals, they just dont lock out that heal but still interupt a 1.5 second cast heal thats at least 3 seconds before a casted heal can land, add in your interupt on the next cast there is another 1.5 seconds wasted with no healing output, i switch to another heal since that one is locked out, bam cc stops that one so there i am nearly 6 seconds from when i tried to start healing and still no healing output. post 1.2 it isnt unheard of for a good dps to put down nearly 10k or more dmg in 6 seconds. So now you are 3/4 dead or if you didnt trinket out of the cc most likey allready dead.

 

The only way healers survive these days is on the good humor of tanks that pay attention and use guard and taunts to reduce the incomming dmg to the point that our smallest heals can at least stem the flow of pain from a torrent to a trickle because out large to medium heals just cant land reliably anymore. Problem is too many of these players dont pay enough attention to where the heals are comming from on their own team so we dont get guard/taunts enough.

[KiranK]

Given that before we had endless heal chains where you couldn't kill anyone and healers that could infinitely kite 3 ppl while at the same time self healing away to never die, I'm going say "HELL NO". Uncurable healing debuffs are too few and far between, if anything. Since interrupts in this game are garbage, anything we can get to keep PvP healing in check is most welcome.

[Derian]

I don't recall ever mentioning 1v1.

 

I just meant that logically, a heal debuff that can be removed by any person that it would be useful against seems like a waste of both a GCD and an ability in general.

 

When do you want to use the debuff? When there's a healer nearby.

 

When there's a healer nearby, the debuff will be cleansed (faster than you can reapply it).

 

Why would you even apply the debuff unless you felt that you were fighting against a braindead team who didn't know where their dispel button was? It's literally nothing but a waste of resources in this case.

 

QFT that heal debuff is three focus it isn't ccheap. It's on a 15s cooldown too

Edited April 28, 2012 by Derian

[LancelotOC]

Healers are affected by snares, roots, stuns, mezzes, knockbacks and knockdowns like everyone else. We're also affected by interupts, pushback, trauma and heal duffs. You all complain that there is too much CC affecting your DPS already with 6 of them ..how would you all feel if there were 10 types affecting you?

 

What else do you guys want.. should we come over your homes and play your toons for you?

[Erynz]

Given that before we had endless heal chains where you couldn't kill anyone and healers that could infinitely kite 3 ppl while at the same time self healing away to never die, I'm going say "HELL NO". Uncurable healing debuffs are too few and far between, if anything. Since interrupts in this game are garbage, anything we can get to keep PvP healing in check is most welcome.

 

Looks like a L2P issue on your end if you think interupts are garbage. No wonder that healer was able to kite 3 people, especially if they didn't bother to use intterupt.

 

Also given the amount of maras/snipers/GS/sents there are in WZs now, I hightly doubt heal debuffs are few and far between.

[Haeso]

I'd use it once, and if you dispelled it, I very likely would not waste the resources on using it again because unlike your healing, you can effectively stop me from EVER benefitting from the debuff, whereas you will eventually be able to get a heal off even if I interrupt you every single cd.

 

You don't seem to realize that spending the GCD on that cleanse heals for less than crippling throw deals damage, and if you don't have any other dots up it leaves you free to apply them for 4.5 seconds. Crippling throw isn't negated by cleanse, it forced the healer to cleanse.

 

Which in turn gave you another 1.5 seconds for your interrupts to cooldown that they weren't spending healing... It's astonishing how bad and shortsighted most marauders are.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Haeso

[LancelotOC]

Don't you know the mantra yet.. they are the hardest class to play. Also the one complaining about endless healing pre 1.2 is a tank. In his view healers should heal low enough where even his DPS facerolls people.

[Sabredance]

Heal debuff is fine.

 

My last MMO had 50% heal debuffs -incoming and outgoing (stackable)

That was brutal.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Sabredance

[Shlamorel]

 

I just meant that logically, a heal debuff that can be removed by any person that it would be useful against seems like a waste of both a GCD and an ability in general..

 

Good point, but I wager that many healers would not notice the debuff and/or would simply be too lazy to cleanse it.

 

I agree that having it curable would add a new dimension to the PvP. It would help separate attentive healers from nonattentive ones.

[getdownsb]

That is what expertise is for. Balancing DPS/Heals/mitigation.

 

That is not what expertise is for, not at all. Expertise is in the game for one reason and one reason only, to make PvE gear non-viable in PvP. Re-evaluate your understanding of expertise.

[ugig]

At the end of the day this argument is really pointless in most situations because when the heat is on, with the amount of damage flying around in WZ's, taking a GCD to cleanse will most likely mean a dead target.

 

I get into situations all the time where my target is being beat down, I am chain healing keeping his head just above the water, my big heal is too slow to cast he would be dead before it finished, and my instants are too small, they are doing more dmg than the instant or channeles can keep up with, the only option is the small fast heal which heals just enough, fast enough to take the target from 5% to 10% just in time for the dps to take them back to 5% any interuption in that chain heal and that target is dead.

 

So it becomes a race to see who's resource lasts longer, and a sage healer post 1.2 will always lose that race.