rotatorkuf Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) Foreword: I currently have a valor 74 Mercenary (3 pc BM, 2 PC rakata, rest of items BM and WH earpiece). I also have a valor 60 Assassin, and yes, the tank spec is ridiculously out of control, but that's a story for another day. And i'm leveling a marauder so i can join the pain train =) Anyway, i'm not sure what this post is, a guide or a qq post, or whatever, just continue reading if you want to hear an honest, civilized opinion on mercenaries in pvp. So I had been reading all the QQ and posts about this and that with Merc Arsenal, I finally decided to log back in and try it out again. Granted, the nerfs hurt, there's no denying that. To get this out of the way, Merc Arsenal will more often than not be a non-viable 1v1 pvp spec, for the simple fact that you're abilities are stationary and casted. Where your strength comes, is in numbers, when you're hiding in the background or perched up on some bridge, unloading, no pun intended, on unsuspecting enemies. This, I suspect, is why Bioware continues to nerf mercenaries (hopefully they've got it out of their system by now), because if left alone in pvp, they will destroy everyone, especially pre 1.2. Our closest class in PVP is easily the Sniper, they're just as stationary, if not more, and as bursty, if not more. I am not entirely familiar with this class so i'm not going to sit here and pretend to compare them comfortably (opinions are welcome though!). Their latest buff was unnecessary IMO, as they were already hitting pretty heavily, but whatever, adjust right? Anywho, most of the time, 1v1 with Snipers, I can usually come out the victor, unless the guy on the other REALLY knows how to play his class (on my server a few that come to mind are Royal, Destroyer, Shotgun). Personally, i've had some success in Arsenal in 1v1, but for 1v1, you're probably going to have a better chance with Pyrotech, or if your enemy doesn't have any CDs and you have all of yours you can be mildy successful in full Arsenal. *slight QQ tangent* One of the things that still puzzles me is why mercenaries don't get a genuine interrupt, for all the back and forth on these forums (use your knockbacks! use your stuns!), fact of the matter is, every other class has knockbacks and stuns AND an interrupt, for the mercenary to not receive a genuine interrupt is just unfair, for the lack of a better word, due to the fact that genuine interrupts don't rely on a nonfull resolve bar. I've tried pretty much most pvp dps merc specs (not going to link any, as most are cookie cutter), the one I usually end up coming back to is the following hybrid spec *waits for moans, groans, and sighs*: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300rfRoozf0zZMfkRRMd.1 Before the "hybrid is stupid, you're missing out on the top tier abilities" thread hijacking begins, yes I agree, you ARE missing out on top tier abilities in this spec, obviously, and you will not likely kill another healer 1v1. The reason I use this spec is because most of the time, i'm solo queuing. To defend it a bit further, for all the crap Kolto Shell gets, it's quite a nice boost in 1v1 pvp (even with 16 heat cost, you should only be casting it when it's not on you), and each tick usually crit heals me for around 700+, non crit going for around 400+. This spec is pretty much reliant on tracer missile / power shot / unload / rail shot. I've been able to 1v2 and even 1v3 sometimes (and no, not against bads, but no also, not against marauders/assassins), BUT, you are not going to have better success against them in either Pyro or Arsenal. Most of the time, pop shield, become uninteruptable and win (if you time it right so you're not stunned). Another great thing about this spec is being able to switch mid-wz/fight into combat support cylinder and bust out some almost as good as full bodyguard heals. That being said, after playing full arsenal and full pyro (post 1.2.1), I can honestly say that I usually always top the DPS charts, or am near the TOP (snipers/marauders will usually outdps me if they're good). That being said, I don't go around dotting everything I can to 'pad' my numbers, most of it, probably a good 90+% is single target. In my hybrid spec, i'm almost near the top in DPS, but not nearly as high if I were full ars/pyro. Heatseeker is still currently broken I think, haven't checked the numbers, but I think it's only benefiting from the 20% armor debuff from tracer missile and not the 25% buff from the heat signatures. However, I do get the usual 4k+ Heatseekers in PVP, and it mostly floats around 3k to 4k with full sigs. After playing the Assassin class at high level PVP, I can honestly say that Mercenary pales heavily in comparison to the sin tank spec, as most other classes do. I still have fun playing the mercenary, and unfortunately, I don't think much will change for this class, at least not with a complete revamp of the arsenal tree (since most of it is based on tracer missile). Most of the problems and what leads to a lot of QQ, I believe, is because mercenaries just get destroyed more than half of the time in 1v1 pvp. Which, unfortunately, is a pill you have to swallow if you roll a mercenary. Opening things up for discussion, what do you guys think will help this class become more viable in 1v1 pvp, or should the developers not care since I suppose this is not a 1v1 pvp designed game. My two cents. (Considering and maintaining all the mercenary class changes up to this point.) - Add a genuine interrupt. - Increase Kolto Missile # of targets. - Add a snare/root removal ability that isn't dependent on our major defensive cooldown (e.g. Force speed for Asassins is on a 30 sec CD by default, 20 sec with talent, and it removes any roots/snares with talent point spent). - Add a def cd that increaess our defenses. (qq - most every other class gets more than 1 def cd, we only get 1.) Edited April 26, 2012 by rotatorkuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestle Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) A one second increase in our stun and let our knockbacks root for 2 seconds and then we can compete. This will give us basically similiar to what the sniper has in CC without the damage a sniper can put out. They could also shorten the longggggg cast time on our secondary stun and that may be enough alone. Sniper DPS is higher. Their damage mitigation is sick with cover, all though it can be a pain. They have a rediculous long instant cast flash bang/mez. Our mez takes 3 months to cast. They can spec ambush to have a knockback. They also get another AE knockback. They have a great self ward. They get a root. They have a finishing blow that does crazy damage. Do mercenaries have this? Marauders/Sins/Snipers all get this finishing high damage ability. Oh did I mention that in cover they can't be jumped to. Mercs cant keep tanks off of them at all with their limited abilities. And our main attack is very easily interuppted. At least when heatseaker hit hard we could get lucky and get a 5k crit to help. They are a much better option all around than mercs. They do everything better than we can. They are the best turret class. Not even comparable to mercs. And slingers are even better. I think slinger DPS is higher the way their abilities animate etc helps on their DPS compared to snipers. Why play a merc. Edited April 26, 2012 by Wrestle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrit Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) HSM is supposed to be our finisher ... And yes, sorc and sniper have BH beat in everything except "heavy" armor. They have a better 8m radius aoe nuke. They both have either an aoe kb root or stun They both get an interrupt. Sorc gets better dots, and sniper has better burst. Or only 2 strong attacks (unload/HSM) are dependent on getting TM off. And on top of that, HSM is now worthless. Edited April 26, 2012 by Ifrit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gattiman Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Totally agree. Its like bioware doesn't play their own game. The class is broken. A one second increase in our stun and let our knockbacks root for 2 seconds and then we can compete. This will give us basically similiar to what the sniper has in CC without the damage a sniper can put out. They could also shorten the longggggg cast time on our secondary stun and that may be enough alone. Sniper DPS is higher. Their damage mitigation is sick with cover, all though it can be a pain. They have a rediculous long instant cast flash bang/mez. Our mez takes 3 months to cast. They can spec ambush to have a knockback. They also get another AE knockback. They have a great self ward. They get a root. They have a finishing blow that does crazy damage. Do mercenaries have this? Marauders/Sins/Snipers all get this finishing high damage ability. Oh did I mention that in cover they can't be jumped to. Mercs cant keep tanks off of them at all with their limited abilities. And our main attack is very easily interuppted. At least when heatseaker hit hard we could get lucky and get a 5k crit to help. They are a much better option all around than mercs. They do everything better than we can. They are the best turret class. Not even comparable to mercs. And slingers are even better. I think slinger DPS is higher the way their abilities animate etc helps on their DPS compared to snipers. Why play a merc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestle Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) We are basically a sniper/turret class without the benefits of the sniper. I hate to make the stuns longer, because this game is full of CC atm. The only thing they can do is let us destroy others in pvp before we are destroyed (Like it says when you chose your Mercenary class VS PT). Powertechs are more like what a merc should be when it comes to burst DPS. Alter mercenaries to be a burst DPS class if anything. I felt very balanced after the 1.2 patch was released. I'm not sure about the stupid PVE damage because I do 0 PVE. 10k crits is stupid in PVE and should have been corrected, but 5K crits on a finish blow type of move was fine IMO. Hell I have about 1300 expertise and I was critted a few nights back by a marauder for 5600. Edited April 26, 2012 by Wrestle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barberiann Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 To the OP, before 1.2, I ran a variation of the Hybrid spec you linked to and enjoyed it alot. But after 1.2, I don't see why you would choose to go with that anymore. The 16 heat cost of Kolto Shell just isnt that worth it. The ability is real nice for 1v1, but the only time you can really apply it to yourself is before a fight begins otherwise you will get overheated quickly. And the 50% nerf to the Power Barrier in arsenal just sucks now for the Hybrid as well. When 1.2 hit, I was LOVING arsenal. Like others have said, I didn't notice ridic damage in raiding (my group has 2 arsenal mercs). But what i did love was that Heatseeker missle was actually a great finisher. it was so nice to be able to burst down a marauder with some nice crits. The 1.2.1 patch or whatever it was broke Arsenal for me badly. After reading up on alot of extensive posts and doing some of my own testing, my hypothesis is that Tracer Missle is not correctly debuffing the armor of the target by 20% for our own attacks. You can test this easily by shooting 10 Tracers in a row and seeing that the damage never significantly increases for 20% armor debuff. They need to fix this asap because I really enjoyed Arsenal post 1.2. But more recently, I have been going full Pyro (0/10/31) and have been loving it. The mobility is really nice and I love the more bursty aspects with lots of railshots and thermal detonator. Im gunna be sticking with Pyro until something gets done with Bodyguard or Arsenal. In terms of changes that I think they should do to make Mercs better for PvP and 1v1: 1) We absolutely need an interupt. Make it a 30 second CD, I don't care 2) We absolutely need a root in place effect after Jet Boost like Sorcs and Snipers. Movement speed slow is terrible in comparision 3) (My creative idea to add to the thread) Something needs to be done to change Missle Blast to make it part of our rotation as dps to provide some mobility. I think that similar to the Target Lock buff for rail show, they could add a similar buff to ourselves that would increase damage of next missle blast by 10/20/30% and decrease heat by 8/16/25 or something like that. Thoughts? Comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotatorkuf Posted April 26, 2012 Author Share Posted April 26, 2012 To the OP, before 1.2, I ran a variation of the Hybrid spec you linked to and enjoyed it alot. But after 1.2, I don't see why you would choose to go with that anymore. The 16 heat cost of Kolto Shell just isnt that worth it. The ability is real nice for 1v1, but the only time you can really apply it to yourself is before a fight begins otherwise you will get overheated quickly. And the 50% nerf to the Power Barrier in arsenal just sucks now for the Hybrid as well. When 1.2 hit, I was LOVING arsenal. Like others have said, I didn't notice ridic damage in raiding (my group has 2 arsenal mercs). But what i did love was that Heatseeker missle was actually a great finisher. it was so nice to be able to burst down a marauder with some nice crits. The 1.2.1 patch or whatever it was broke Arsenal for me badly. After reading up on alot of extensive posts and doing some of my own testing, my hypothesis is that Tracer Missle is not correctly debuffing the armor of the target by 20% for our own attacks. You can test this easily by shooting 10 Tracers in a row and seeing that the damage never significantly increases for 20% armor debuff. They need to fix this asap because I really enjoyed Arsenal post 1.2. But more recently, I have been going full Pyro (0/10/31) and have been loving it. The mobility is really nice and I love the more bursty aspects with lots of railshots and thermal detonator. Im gunna be sticking with Pyro until something gets done with Bodyguard or Arsenal. In terms of changes that I think they should do to make Mercs better for PvP and 1v1: 1) We absolutely need an interupt. Make it a 30 second CD, I don't care 2) We absolutely need a root in place effect after Jet Boost like Sorcs and Snipers. Movement speed slow is terrible in comparision 3) (My creative idea to add to the thread) Something needs to be done to change Missle Blast to make it part of our rotation as dps to provide some mobility. I think that similar to the Target Lock buff for rail show, they could add a similar buff to ourselves that would increase damage of next missle blast by 10/20/30% and decrease heat by 8/16/25 or something like that. Thoughts? Comments? i agree with missile blast, i don't even have that garbage hot bared, too much heat cost for low dmg output Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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