Bodyward: hps diferences

[belialle]

Sorc AoE heals will put them at a higher HPS. Who cares? If they buff merc AoE heals, they would probably have to nerf merc single-target heals to compensate. Do you really want that?

 

You are pulling 1300-1500 HPS. That is excellent. That is seriously excellent. Nevermind that I think you guys are placing way too much stock in the importance of HPS (seriously, it's not nearly as important as you make it out to be). You know what you can do better than a sorc any day of the week? Burst healing on the tank. And that is ultimately way, WAY more important than overall HPS. I mean, have you seen how hard Kethess hits? Sheesh.

 

Can we please stop begging BW to homogenize the classes already? Personally, I like that there is a class that excels at raid healing and another that excels at tank healing.

 

What is there to complain about? I just don't get what all the fuss is about.

Edited April 27, 2012 by belialle

[Cody-licious]

The point is that, potentially, a sorcerer can heal much more than we, and that diference should not be so high ><. If we dont move, we are going to be behind forever guys :S.

 

No, No, NO!

 

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that you must be equal or close to Sorc's HPS number in a raid environment. That will just never be the case. As people have been trying to say to you, the Sorc's AOE heal is perfectly designed to artificially inflate their HPS numbers

1. it targets 8 people, and not just 4; and

2. most Sorcs will use it constantly off cooldown -- even when raid members don't need it -- thereby further inflating their HPS numbers.

 

In my simple estimation of raid healing roles, Mercs make very fine Tank healers, and Sorcs make very fine Raid healers. Normally, the HPS logs for these two roles will not be the same -- hence the reason for the disparity.

 

I mean, have you even verified things like equal gearing, equal stims/adrenals, equal relics, healing same targets, etc.etc.?

 

Until and unless you are able to generate 2 separate healing logs (from both a Sorc and Merc) where you're equally geared and healing on a combat healing dummy, then your posts start to sound like very little more than uninformed QQ.

[Ewert]

I just posted the logs because they where surprised about 1300-1500 hps in a mercenary... the point of this thread isnt that... You can see other fights in my logs where i use kolto much less... and still get 1300+ but again, that is not the point!!

Yea sorry we just got intrigued by the 1500+ HPS values and wanted to analyze that.

Anyway, i will be pleased to see your logs and see where and what im doing wrong. I use kolto misile so much because i see the hp of 3+ ppl going down and i think: they need heal now, also dmg reduction!!

HS have a 7,5 seg CD, so i can combine both, but if there is a better way to heal that players i'll be happy changing my heal style.

If you can get 3 hits off, which heal, then KM is worth more than the single heals, that is good. Apparently in your raids sticking together happens plentiful enough, that is however raid members specific issue, I never really had people grouped up tight enough to do that as often with good certainty.

 

Currently the thing is that BH is factually broken for heals. The game mechanisms are literally mathematically broken, as in for example the HS+RS combo is weaker than HS spam, which can not be an intended game change. Before patch ops had similar sustained heals, sorcs had massive aoe, we had massive burst but sustained not at all unbalanced. They nerfed our basic combo by 32% heat efficiency, they overall made several 2-5% nerfs to multiple things, in short they destroyed our burst and gimped our relative sustained output massively. Meanwhile they fixed a sorc bug that dropped their heal output slightly, but left their absolute mastery of aoe. They improved ops some. So we are left burstless with least sustained, with about comparable aoe though the ops one does do more per cast, which does matter...

The point is that, potentially, a sorcerer can heal much more than we, and that diference should not be so high ><. If we dont move, we are going to be behind forever guys :S.

Indeed. Also I still maintain my opinion that the sorc you have in your raid is also slacking.

 

PS. You were not nonstop casting, so that explains the bit low amount of Rapid Shots. It's free, hit the boss if everyone is maxed.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Ewert

[TempestasSilva]

Aren't you forgetting the threat reduction granted by guard? And a possible use of threat dumps (though I don't know if those show up in the logs)

 

Guard = 25% reduced threat. Yes that will come into play, but then I would expect the overhealing numbers to increase significantly. Plus in PVE I think a healer is a bad choice for guard.

 

Threat dumps knock an amount off your total threat. If you look at the ASKMRROBOT logs, it calculates the threat for each individual skill, so it would not be affected by a threat dump.

 

Qendra: Thanks for the logs, and I am sorry to have side tracked your thread. Yes there is a large discrepancy that should be addressed, and no I am not saying homogenize the healers as some of the above are suggesting.

 

Incoming Soapbox rant:

 

"Merc's make good tank healers" umm not any more. Yeah you want us to hit the tank with a healing scan frequently and if we hit SCG, you want us to hit the tank with a KM, but the rest of the time we are better spreading our love so to speak. This makes us actually a raid healer that has crap for AoE healing. It used to be Sorcs brought great AoE raid healing, Ops brought steady healing and preventative HoTs, and we brought decent steady healing and great burst healing so we were especially good at tank healing. Now? Not saying we are broken, but I am not sure what we really bring that is special. So yes, despite the "no homogenized healers" BS, we need something. That does not mean we are not "viable" or we are "broken". My guild is still progressing with me healing. Quendra is kicking ***. Does not mean we shouldn't get some Dev loving. And I am not saying make us AOE healers like sorcs or better HoTs like Ops. I am saying that our total throughput is low and they took the mechanic that made us special and jacked it up, which IMO means we are no longer special and especially for me, no longer fun. Give us a missile that will prevent death for 5 seconds and put it on a 2 minute cooldown, maybe give it a 10 second 100% armor reduction so it can't be used on a tank. That would be fun to use. add a couple more and I'd even stick to being the low HPS healer we are now, because at least it would be fun. I am sure the community could come up with a lot of FUN mechanics without making us the same as other healers or cheapening what makes them special. They nerfed our burst and throughput to make it easier for them to predict healing so they could tune their raids better. How long did it take for hard mode EC to be beat? Nice job. So give us back our throughput and give us a new mechanic. Ask the healing community for ideas. Really you can make healing fun AND still make it predictable. This is Star Wars. You're Bioware. Man up, admit you made a *slight* mistake and fix it.

 

 

Now a little quick analysis of your numbers. So your total overheal was about 13%. Again you continue to use KM more than some of us would expect, so lets look at it. Its 23%. Still not outrageous considering the non-smartheal. IMO you are really taking advantage of opportunities to hit multiple targets that need heals.

 

Good damned job. IMO. You are putting out some of the best numbers I have seen. At the risk of further derailing your thread, I think the community could benefit a lot from any perspective you could give. If you don't mind answering some questions:

1) Do you use a rotation or priority system?

2) How do you split up your healing assignments (looks like you are on about 4 people)

3) What is your raid make up as compared to your healing targets? (are you mostly on the tank and melee, or the ranged and healers?)

4) You use KM a lot. Do you intentionally try to use it almost whenever the CD is up?

5) Any tips on using/targeting KM?

6) Anything else that you think might help other BH healers?

7) Can you give us you non-buffed stats?

8) If you re-modded your gear, what was your reasoning for the way you did so?

BTW, I am not THAT sorry for derailing your thread. IMO there are plenty of threads about the healing discrepancy both here and in the healer forums. Since we are forced to make lemonade from lemons, I think the community would benefit much more from a positive thread helping to make the best of the situation than yet another complaint thread.

Edited April 27, 2012 by TempestasSilva

[Qendra]

No, No, NO!

 

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that you must be equal or close to Sorc's HPS number in a raid environment. That will just never be the case.

 

The problem is that our burst healing is not that good now... a sorc can keep a tank alive perfectly, just like us, with his shield and his 2 instant heals.

New explosive conflict bosses usually split the raid in 2 groups, and i have to heal mine. I dont care if i heal them with aoe or with single targets heals, i just want an easy job there: a buff on our single target healing or on our group healing.

 

Good damned job. IMO. You are putting out some of the best numbers I have seen. At the risk of further derailing your thread, I think the community could benefit a lot from any perspective you could give. If you don't mind answering some questions:

1) Do you use a rotation or priority system?

2) How do you split up your healing assignments (looks like you are on about 4 people)

3) What is your raid make up as compared to your healing targets? (are you mostly on the tank and melee, or the ranged and healers?)

4) You use KM a lot. Do you intentionally try to use it almost whenever the CD is up?

5) Any tips on using/targeting KM?

6) Anything else that you think might help other BH healers?

7) Can you give us you non-buffed stats?

8) If you re-modded your gear, what was your reasoning for the way you did so?

BTW, I am not THAT sorry for derailing your thread. IMO there are plenty of threads about the healing discrepancy both here and in the healer forums. Since we are forced to make lemonade from lemons, I think the community would benefit much more from a positive thread helping to make the best of the situation than yet another complaint thread.

 

Thanks a lot for the compliments, but i think that im not a good example to follow...

Anyway, im glad to ask your questions. Again, excuse my english:

1) I try to use HS on cd, followed by a rapid scan, and keep the emergency scan... for emergency hehe.

2) Our raid is divided in 2 groups with a tank, a healer and 2 dps (2 meles and 2 ranged).

3) Im on my tank, and usually with the ranged party. My kolto misile usually hit only 3 targets because of that.

4) I use it when i need to heal my group dps and we all are getting dmg. This is common in explosive conflict.

5) If you are going to use KM, use it asap, because you will lose time targeting that can be used healing another player.

6) Keep you instant heals unused until you need them or if you know that there will not be high dmg in one target.

7) and 8) Im working on my askmrrobot profile, but in resume, im trying to eliminate all the alacrity from my gear and pick surge instead. The new commendation boots are perfect for that purpose.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Qendra

[TempestasSilva]

That post probably won't be around for long and I am not gonna quote it, but thank you for the laugh. Oh and tell us how you really feel! LOLOLOL

[Cody-licious]

This is a really interesting discussion that I've just re-stumbled on.

 

I logged my healing for the first time on a KP NIghtmare Mode, and attached is the parsed results.

http://www.fryingtime.com/?filename=combat_2012-06-04_20_43_36_897962.txt#20_48_27_643000

 

The 2 false starts on Fabricator and Karagga aside, I think these are fairly respectable HPS numbers. Not exactly hitting the stellar heights of 1500 HPS, but not at all bad. Using the estimated overhealing calculation suggested above, I'm pushing around 12% on the Fabricator fight. (Don't worry so much about the threat on the Bonethrasher fight, since my Op colleague died about half-way through, leaving me to solo-heal for the rest of the duration... )

 

How does this compare to everyone else's results?