>> Arsenal Mercs Are Fine, Stop Complaining (PvP/PvE)

[gattiman]

While the "ARMOR PEN" from the debuff Cylinder is not applying, PvE Merc DPS is fine.

Would you rather have them nerf the base damage MORE and have it only increase once you have a 5 stack up and the cylinder? That would be worse. They appear to be leaving it "broken" in order to not reduce the base damage without armorpen, just consider it as armorpen applied into it, but your damage won't increase with more debuffs.

 

But you would agree arsenal. Is completely broken in pvp right? I mean its pretty obvious. An arsenal merc is the easiest class in the game to kill. I laugh when i see one.

[DkSharktooth]

Not a bad post OP, I agreed with many of your points but the generalistions make me wonder if the entire post is flawed

 

ie.. please stop equating casual to Bad, it was not necessary.

 

Speak to people not down to them, put a list of suggestions forward to improve gameplay and this could have been a sticky quality post.

 

I actually do agree with the core of many of your statements, I just find the tone they were written in to be one only useable on an anon forum system.

 

 

Good luck,

 

If you are able to translate it into "sticky friendly" terms, by all means help the community out. I will post all credit for the translation to you.

[DkSharktooth]

But you would agree arsenal. Is completely broken in pvp right? I mean its pretty obvious. An arsenal merc is the easiest class in the game to kill. I laugh when i see one.

 

I wouldn't say "broken" more like pvp inefficient. It just feels like we need a little more utility to cover for our damage nerf, possibly an interrupt or additional CC or interrupt immunity. Its also quite possible to interrupt a debuff similar to trauma PvP just for arsenal mercs to increase their HSM damage by 10% while in warzones, that would be fine to. As it stands now, Arsenal can still effectively kill any target class in pvp, although overall damage at the end of warzone will be low due to being a stand-still turret.

 

A "damage buff" would not fix anything for Arsenal PvP. You would just further imbalance PvE and overbuff arsenal dps in PvE. As it stands, we have a huge raid-wide armor reduction buff and top dps on meters.

 

It's perfectly normal to have 2 different specs, one for pve, one for pvp.

 

Also, please realize that until server xfers come out, you will not see a full sentinal, full powertech, full vangaurd, full marauder, full jug, full tankassin team. People play the class they have. If you get jumped by more than 1 person, you will get interrupted. 1v1, you can still hold your own fine even if interrupted, but you have to play really smart and not stand there getting rolled.

Edited April 27, 2012 by DkSharktooth

[Calavero]

This is a very honest question: do Arsenal Mercs have competitive sustained DPS with other ranged and melee classes on a single target at the moment?

 

I have read an overabundance of anecdotal evidence on these forums since last week's patch stating that Arsenal Merc DPS is so broken they're a liability to even bring to content anymore - and here you are saying they have "a huge raid-wide armor reduction buff and top dps on meters."

 

I'm not even suggesting you're wrong, I'm just wondering if you could clarify that statement a little better, as I'd really like to gear and play mine, but don't want to invest myself into a character that's "gimp DPS".

 

The bottom line here is that someone is incorrect in what they're posting, and it's a lot easier to ask a reasonable and well informed guy to explain his claim than it is to call out a whole forum full of whining crybabies.

 

Thanks, and no disrespect intended.

[DkSharktooth]

This is a very honest question: do Arsenal Mercs have competitive sustained DPS with other ranged and melee classes on a single target at the moment?

 

I have read an overabundance of anecdotal evidence on these forums since last week's patch stating that Arsenal Merc DPS is so broken they're a liability to even bring to content anymore - and here you are saying they have "a huge raid-wide armor reduction buff and top dps on meters."

 

I'm not even suggesting you're wrong, I'm just wondering if you could clarify that statement a little better, as I'd really like to gear and play mine, but don't want to invest myself into a character that's "gimp DPS".

 

The bottom line here is that someone is incorrect in what they're posting, and it's a lot easier to ask a reasonable and well informed guy to explain his claim than it is to call out a whole forum full of whining crybabies.

 

Thanks, and no disrespect intended.

 

16man Hardmode Warlord Kephess DPS Meter: http://imgur.com/vvPSG

I decided to test out merc pyro for pve, and its amazing. The problem is that loosing 1 stack of tracer missiles for the raid makes everyone loose 1.5% damage and myself gaining 1.5% dmg as a pyro merc over 2nd top dps because it's high sustained dps even on the move. (1.5% x 8dps > Your 1.5%). So to answer your question, yes I believe that Arsenal Merc is stil very competitive. (These are rough numbers, not exact)

Edited April 27, 2012 by DkSharktooth

[gattiman]

16man Hardmode Warlord Kephess DPS Meter: http://imgur.com/vvPSG

I decided to test out merc pyro for pve, and its amazing. The problem is that loosing 1 stack of tracer missiles for the raid makes everyone loose 1.5% damage and myself gaining 1.5% dmg as a pyro merc over 2nd top dps because it's high sustained dps even on the move. (1.5% x 8dps > Your 1.5%). So to answer your question, yes I believe that Arsenal Merc is stil very competitive. (These are rough numbers, not exact)

 

The more i play Pyro the more i like it but it still needs to atleast be brought in line with PT Pyro.

[DkSharktooth]

The more i play Pyro the more i like it but it still needs to atleast be brought in line with PT Pyro.

 

The only thing Merc pyro needs is pushback reduction on unload and powershot to be given into the pyro tree by combining it into some other ability.

 

Edit: Also pushback reduction on Concussion Missile

Edited April 27, 2012 by DkSharktooth

[Hxxr]

16man Hardmode Warlord Kephess DPS Meter: http://imgur.com/vvPSG

I decided to test out merc pyro for pve, and its amazing. The problem is that loosing 1 stack of tracer missiles for the raid makes everyone loose 1.5% damage and myself gaining 1.5% dmg as a pyro merc over 2nd top dps because it's high sustained dps even on the move. (1.5% x 8dps > Your 1.5%). So to answer your question, yes I believe that Arsenal Merc is stil very competitive. (These are rough numbers, not exact)

 

Good thing only Arsenal has an armor debuff ... intresting that you overlooked this flaw after that condecending opening post.

 

Don't get me wrong, I myself am doing great compared to the rest of the raid and we just did story mode EC and nightmare KP and I was top dps on every fight. But that's just because my DPS are actually at the limit while the other's wasn't. I don't give a damn about actual parses when discussing balance, it's the potential that's important because then player skill - good or bad - doesn't factor in.

And potential should be equal if possible. If anything we should be on the high end ... we got the worst utility and least forgiving resource mechanic.

[gattiman]

The only thing Merc pyro needs is pushback reduction on unload and powershot to be given into the pyro tree by combining it into some other ability.

 

That would help things I would say make rocket punch be a short stun or hard interrupt and then we would be strong and balanced. We could finally be healer killers without needing all our CD's.

Edited April 27, 2012 by gattiman

[Rethban]

Anyone bring up an idea for an offensive dispel cd (excluding class buffs)? Wouldn't affect pve dmg but would give us at least something unique from other classes in terms of utility in pvp and maintaining the "stationary turret" model.

 

I'd contribute something on-topic but it's pretty much been covered

Edited April 27, 2012 by Rethban

[DkSharktooth]

But you would agree arsenal. Is completely broken in pvp right? I mean its pretty obvious. An arsenal merc is the easiest class in the game to kill. I laugh when i see one.

 

When server transfers are up, come to Giradda The Hutt (US PvE EST Time Zone). I will show you what Arsenal Merc can do if you wish to see it played right.

[fujeo-finel]

PvP that is solely balanced on endgame is bad PvP. Geez, didn't we learn that already from WoW?

[Quantemoq]

true, but it is better to have an impbalanced early and mid game, then an imbalanced endgame

[gattiman]

When server transfers are up, come to Giradda The Hutt (US PvE EST Time Zone). I will show you what Arsenal Merc can do if you wish to see it played right.

 

No disrespect but in pvp it can't be played right. Its easily interuptable. Your success as an arsenal is entirely dependant on the other team leaving you alone. The better you get the less success you will have against good teams ask me how i know. They will just stick a marauder on you and you either end up running around a pole taking you out of the game or getting killed very quickly once you are out of CD's.

[DkSharktooth]

No disrespect but in pvp it can't be played right. Its easily interuptable. Your success as an arsenal is entirely dependant on the other team leaving you alone. The better you get the less success you will have against good teams ask me how i know. They will just stick a marauder on you and you either end up running around a pole taking you out of the game or getting killed very quickly once you are out of CD's.

 

As an Arsenal Merc in PvP, it all depends on your positioning and continuous awareness of it. You have 2 knockbacks in pvp spec.

 

Voidstar:

1. Stick near a pillar/boxes/spaceship ALWAYS, use knockbacks to get people off you/healers, then go around the other side of the pillar so they cannot pull or jump to you RIGHT AWAY after you punted them. Then heal yourself quick so your full health when they get back on you. Rinse, repeat. If you cannot do this all QUICKLY, you will die everytime. It is important to note that you should NEVER EVER use your knockback if you know the enemy warrior has their leap ready. That being said, you have to not only be aware of your position, you have to be aware of the enemies position and if they have their leap on or off cooldown. Marauders are nothing to me 1v1 if I have a pillar.

2. You are really good for defending the bridge by knocking people off if you know how to play it right. Jet boost should be used at any point on the bridge and rocket punch used after you kite melee to the ledge. I frequently make the enemy republic teams give up on trying to cross a bridge 4 or more at a time because they know they are going to get punted off and if they tried to get me, it wouldn't happen because I am aware of my positioning in regards to their knockback abilitys. If a jugg/other bounty hunter is gunning for me, stun or instant cast concussion and then use your knockback on them then trolololol

 

Civil War:

1. Middle - Stay up top ALWAYS, knock people off, don't get knocked off. If you failed to knock them off and they stick on you, that is your fault.

2. Sides - Punt people off the side then immediatly run to the opposite side so they cannot pull you or jump back to you. This also works very well when you are trying to get that clutch kill when there are alot of enemies at the side you are defending, you punt everyone else or the healer away, finish off the guy you were on.

3. If your standing in the open, and not near a point where you can use a knockback effectively, you played it wrong.

 

I think you get the point, same thing applies to other 2 warzones.

Edited April 27, 2012 by DkSharktooth

[Cegenaus]

When server transfers are up, come to Giradda The Hutt (US PvE EST Time Zone). I will show you what Arsenal Merc can do if you wish to see it played right.

 

you know they make software that allows you to record your in game activities

[DkSharktooth]

you know they make software that allows you to record your in game activities

 

Check out my forum sig

[gattiman]

Your voidstar strat effectively takes you out of the game. Its far to easy to be pushed and stunned while they cap.

 

Civil war strat is easily counterable. Mar has a jump stun closer then they push you while you are stunned. Now they have an easy score.

 

Honestly the arsenal tree is far too easily countered. It should put out 25% more dps to account for how easily it is to be shut down. Not to mention there is the old hide behind a pole/rock just as TM or unload is about to pop. Its just too easy for mobile classes to dominate arsenal.

 

 

As an Arsenal Merc in PvP, it all depends on your positioning and continuous awareness of it. You have 2 knockbacks in pvp spec.

 

Voidstar:

1. Stick near a pillar/boxes/spaceship ALWAYS, use knockbacks to get people off you/healers, then go around the other side of the pillar so they cannot pull or jump to you RIGHT AWAY after you punted them. Then heal yourself quick so your full health when they get back on you. Rinse, repeat. If you cannot do this all QUICKLY, you will die everytime. It is important to note that you should NEVER EVER use your knockback if you know the enemy warrior has their leap ready. That being said, you have to not only be aware of your position, you have to be aware of the enemies position and if they have their leap on or off cooldown. Marauders are nothing to me 1v1 if I have a pillar.

2. You are really good for defending the bridge by knocking people off if you know how to play it right. Jet boost should be used at any point on the bridge and rocket punch used after you kite melee to the ledge. I frequently make the enemy republic teams give up on trying to cross a bridge 4 or more at a time because they know they are going to get punted off and if they tried to get me, it wouldn't happen because I am aware of my positioning in regards to their knockback abilitys. If a jugg/other bounty hunter is gunning for me, stun or instant cast concussion and then use your knockback on them then trolololol

 

Civil War:

1. Middle - Stay up top ALWAYS, knock people off, don't get knocked off. If you failed to knock them off and they stick on you, that is your fault.

2. Sides - Punt people off the side then immediatly run to the opposite side so they cannot pull you or jump back to you. This also works very well when you are trying to get that clutch kill when there are alot of enemies at the side you are defending, you punt everyone else or the healer away, finish off the guy you were on.

3. If your standing in the open, and not near a point where you can use a knockback effectively, you played it wrong.

 

I think you get the point, same thing applies to other 2 warzones.

Edited April 27, 2012 by gattiman

[Cruckin]

When server transfers are up, come to Giradda The Hutt (US PvE EST Time Zone). I will show you what Arsenal Merc can do if you wish to see it played right.

 

Move to a PvP server then come back and talk about PvP. On a PvP server you will see an overall improvement in PvP quality.

[DkSharktooth]

Move to a PvP server then come back and talk about PvP. On a PvP server you will see an overall improvement in PvP quality.

 

I plan on moving to fatman or something related if my guild does.

[DkSharktooth]

Your voidstar strat effectively takes you out of the game. Its far to easy to be pushed and stunned while they cap.

 

Civil war strat is easily counterable. Mar has a jump stun closer then they push you while you are stunned. Now they have an easy score.

 

Honestly the arsenal tree is far too easily countered. It should put out 25% more dps to account for how easily it is to be shut down. Not to mention there is the old hide behind a pole/rock just as TM or unload is about to pop. Its just too easy for mobile classes to dominate arsenal.

 

From your statement, it is clear that:

1. You don't know where the pillars in voidstar are and you don't understand that a RANGED dps can shoot/attack a player at the door from the distance between the door and the pillar.

2. You don't know the classes very well. Marauders do NOT have a force push.

[Azrienov]

• These numbers will obviously change in rated WZs, however the point of the screenshot, which was not the best match ever, was to show that Arsenal Mercs are still performing fine, regardless if the debuffs are not registering properly or not. I can pull much higher numbers as a Pyro in PvP simply because it's more mobile, but the Arsenal class is still capable of doing what a dps class needs to be able to do, kill people effectively, get alot of medals, and play objective.
  

 

You're playing against people who don't recognize how to PvP against players who know what they're doing. Tell me how your numbers look when you are constantly attacked by a player who is there to shut you down. I do that all the time on my Pyro merc because I can LoS channels, and get you to spam cleanse. Meanwhile targets you should be killing are doing what they need to do.

 

I'm annoying and dangerous if you don't realize what's happening. A juggernaut, or tankasin is fatal no matter what you try to do.

[gattiman]

From your statement, it is clear that:

1. You don't know where the pillars in voidstar are and you don't understand that a RANGED dps can shoot/attack a player at the door from the distance between the door and the pillar.

2. You don't know the classes very well. Marauders do NOT have a force push.

 

Juggs then whatever it happens all the time. Yes arsenals have a pathetic auto attack. I'm very well aware of the pillars. I routinely double stun or just kill arsenals that use this technique it only works on new players.

[wargonglok]

lol, if bioware followed your plan for all classes, there would be no game, it would have failed after first month as all the casuals quit,

 

btw i can tell you dont play a commando or merc healer, or for that matter any healer,

 

if you played a healer you would know some useful information but you are a dps

(no offense to dps intended)

this guy just knows nothing about the nerfs to our healing

[DkSharktooth]

lol, if bioware followed your plan for all classes, there would be no game, it would have failed after first month as all the casuals quit,

 

btw i can tell you dont play a commando or merc healer, or for that matter any healer,

 

if you played a healer you would know some useful information but you are a dps

(no offense to dps intended)

this guy just knows nothing about the nerfs to our healing

 

This thread is about Arsenal Mercs how did you bring healing into this?

FYI I have topped 850k healing in full BM gear so not sure if what you are saying applies.