Zesidil Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Just wanted to check and see if anyone has been doing any AP raiding, it seems that this new tier is all about movement and dots, and im curious as to if anyone has any experience with AP.. we don’t have a leap or any movement speed buffs, and our dmg is limited outside of melee and with heat nerfs now its not quite as manageable.. Dummies are nice for theory in a perfect scenario with no running, no target switching and no agro management, lets be honest, there are no fights like that… so its an apples to apples comparison but only good against other apples…. And we know that in a perfect situation what an apple is like… but that will tell us nothing about how oranges work (raids) it would be nice to see if between charged gauntlets, Hydraulic overrides, immolate, auto heat venting , movement speed buffs and retractable blade that you can actually keep up the dps and perhaps even provide a better utility to the raid.. as tbh AP isn’t very good at PVP it may bring that utlity to the raid where you know your rotation and don’t need the RNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpf Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) Just wanted to check and see if anyone has been doing any AP raiding, it seems that this new tier is all about movement and dots, and im curious as to if anyone has any experience with AP.. we don’t have a leap or any movement speed buffs, and our dmg is limited outside of melee and with heat nerfs now its not quite as manageable.. Dummies are nice for theory in a perfect scenario with no running, no target switching and no agro management, lets be honest, there are no fights like that… so its an apples to apples comparison but only good against other apples…. And we know that in a perfect situation what an apple is like… but that will tell us nothing about how oranges work (raids) it would be nice to see if between charged gauntlets, Hydraulic overrides, immolate, auto heat venting , movement speed buffs and retractable blade that you can actually keep up the dps and perhaps even provide a better utility to the raid.. as tbh AP isn’t very good at PVP it may bring that utlity to the raid where you know your rotation and don’t need the RNG. Hahaha, haha, so funny, so so funny. It's almost like you haven't read the past two threads, One that went 27 pages and the one on my signature or even looked at the actual tree. Do you even have a pt? Are you even 50? I am not sure exactly what you are talking about since you seem to confuse the AP tree with Pyro tree, than back to shield tech. I got it, you were high when you wrote this right? I would answer your question, but I have a feeling I just got trolled. I bolded the only part where you made sense, the rest is confusing, and almost too troll like. Edited April 17, 2012 by TheOpf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamosh Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Just wanted to check and see if anyone has been doing any AP raiding, it seems that this new tier is all about movement and dots, and im curious as to if anyone has any experience with AP.. we don’t have a leap or any movement speed buffs, and our dmg is limited outside of melee and with heat nerfs now its not quite as manageable.. Dummies are nice for theory in a perfect scenario with no running, no target switching and no agro management, lets be honest, there are no fights like that… so its an apples to apples comparison but only good against other apples…. And we know that in a perfect situation what an apple is like… but that will tell us nothing about how oranges work (raids) it would be nice to see if between charged gauntlets, Hydraulic overrides, immolate, auto heat venting , movement speed buffs and retractable blade that you can actually keep up the dps and perhaps even provide a better utility to the raid.. as tbh AP isn’t very good at PVP it may bring that utlity to the raid where you know your rotation and don’t need the RNG. i been raiding before 1.2 as AP and i actualy liked it better then pyro much better heat and supstained dmg and that increased dmg on flametrower just rocks never had any complaints about the dmg done was actualy one of the better dps in the guild and those interrupts with reduced cd are nice to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zesidil Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 well since you are unable to infer details about my question i will break them down for those with poor reading comprehension. "Just wanted to check and see if anyone has been doing any AP raiding, it seems that this new tier is all about movement and dots, and im curious as to if anyone has any experience with AP.." - I mention the new Teir of raiding is heavily dependent on dots and more movement and enhanced dot centric spec is potentially viable (do you raid with a sub 50? i don't know of any guild that does , there for i am only talking about lvl 50 and no regular HM but actual OPs) "we don’t have a leap or any movement speed buffs, and our dmg is limited outside of melee and with heat nerfs now its not quite as manageable" - i agree that i an not too clear here, but if you think even just for a second.. i am talking about raiding as DPS. PT was 1 DPS spec, and now there is a possible 2 specs... if i am contrasting something with the new spec, chances are i am talking about the only other spec there is... shield techs have jet charge not leap so i am not talking about them. (who does that leave, i will give you a hit it starts with Sith / Jedi) "Dummies are nice for theory in a perfect scenario with no running, no target switching and no agro management, lets be honest, there are no fights like that… so its an apples to apples comparison but only good against other apples…. And we know that in a perfect situation what an apple is like… but that will tell us nothing about how oranges work (raids)" - do you have an issue with this statement? i will TTYLYA5 - dummies are good for rotations and ensuring your dps is adequate for a fight, but does not provide real world scenario experience of clearing adds, having phases to work though and falsely represents heat management during the movement between phases where you are not stationary and have to worry about placement which logically leads into the next part.. it would be nice to see if between charged gauntlets, Hydraulic overrides, immolate, auto heat venting , movement speed buffs and retractable blade that you can actually keep up the dps and perhaps even provide a better utility to the raid.. as tbh AP isn’t very good at PVP it may bring that utlity to the raid where you know your rotation and don’t need the RNG. - all these abilities are within the AP tree (auto heat venting = Proto cylinder venting) move speed buffs is pneumatic boots).. which can provide additional utility to the PT which increases raid dps that have no effect on traning dummy logs.. and doesn't rely on PPA procs (RNG) in order to manage heat and augment their dps as their heat management is essentially scheduled. Now i admit i posted this during work, so i didn't have hours of time to sort though the posts here.. perhaps i will look at your signature.. perhaps just on principle i wont and will just ask people their experiences raiding with AP subjectively as that is what really matters not someone parsing logs on a dummy as i can tell you even the MK5 is nothing like actually hitting the boss (at least 10-15% more dmg on dummy) and if you doubt my experinces send me a PM and i will enlighten you, cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaceShindu Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I understood what you were saying. It was pretty clear tbh. and if i was 50 i would comment on it. TheOpf has put some decent threads up about AP but overall hes still a douche. Pretty much read this forum every day at work and hes not the most tolerant guy. Have no idea why he would spend the time to lol at someones forum post. From what i hear from guildies AP is fine in raids, I know they raided last night and i asked the PT how it went as im deciding between the two specs for my own PT and he said he had no trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpf Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I understood what you were saying. It was pretty clear tbh. and if i was 50 i would comment on it. TheOpf has put some decent threads up about AP but overall hes still a douche. Pretty much read this forum every day at work and hes not the most tolerant guy. Have no idea why he would spend the time to lol at someones forum post. From what i hear from guildies AP is fine in raids, I know they raided last night and i asked the PT how it went as im deciding between the two specs for my own PT and he said he had no trouble. I am egotistical, arrogant, a bit of a tool, lazy at times, and quite hot-headed, but I am not a douche. Other than that, you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpf Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 well since you are unable to infer details about my question i will break them down for those with poor reading comprehension. "Just wanted to check and see if anyone has been doing any AP raiding, it seems that this new tier is all about movement and dots, and im curious as to if anyone has any experience with AP.." - I mention the new Teir of raiding is heavily dependent on dots and more movement and enhanced dot centric spec is potentially viable (do you raid with a sub 50? i don't know of any guild that does , there for i am only talking about lvl 50 and no regular HM but actual OPs) I assumed you were trolling based on how you wrote the information. I have no idea where you got this statement from, but the new raids are not heavily dependent on DoT's otherwise nothing but Anni Marauders, lethality specced ops, and Madness Assassin would be allowed in raids. So I assumed you were trolling, because this is so misinformation. If you had said, "someone told me" that would have made me think you weren't trolling, and you would have gotten a better response. "we don’t have a leap or any movement speed buffs, and our dmg is limited outside of melee and with heat nerfs now its not quite as manageable" - i agree that i an not too clear here, but if you think even just for a second.. i am talking about raiding as DPS. PT was 1 DPS spec, and now there is a possible 2 specs... if i am contrasting something with the new spec, chances are i am talking about the only other spec there is... shield techs have jet charge not leap so i am not talking about them. (who does that leave, i will give you a hit it starts with Sith / Jedi) Again, your information makes hardly any sense since the AP tree is considered the most mobile of all the BH trees. It has a 15 percent speed buff and Hydraulic Overrides. It's at this point I wondered if you even bothered to look at the trees. Only Maruaders and Jugs have leaps, Assassins have sprint, and we have ranged attacks. Pyro is our other dps spec. PT is a our entire tree. AP has always been around for PVE raiding, it was just really bad in pvp. Your last comment I have no idea what you are saying, and since apparently eveyone else does, I will leave that alone. "Dummies are nice for theory in a perfect scenario with no running, no target switching and no agro management, lets be honest, there are no fights like that… so its an apples to apples comparison but only good against other apples…. And we know that in a perfect situation what an apple is like… but that will tell us nothing about how oranges work (raids)" - do you have an issue with this statement? i will TTYLYA5 - dummies are good for rotations and ensuring your dps is adequate for a fight, but does not provide real world scenario experience of clearing adds, having phases to work though and falsely represents heat management during the movement between phases where you are not stationary and have to worry about placement which logically leads into the next part.. People who state the dummies are nice for theory are generally people who have no clue why they are used. Target dummies are used for the same reason dummies are used in car crash testing. It's to test to see how something works and why it works and the best way to use it. You need an optimum rotation so you don't play horribly. By knowing the best way to do something you can then easily deduce where you are going wrong in an actual fight. BTW, target dummies absolutely help with heat management. You will overheat faster in a static environment than you will in a constant movement fight. If you can't tell the difference between an apple and an orange I can't help you there. I am a Pear man myself ;p. it would be nice to see if between charged gauntlets, Hydraulic overrides, immolate, auto heat venting , movement speed buffs and retractable blade that you can actually keep up the dps and perhaps even provide a better utility to the raid.. as tbh AP isn’t very good at PVP it may bring that utlity to the raid where you know your rotation and don’t need the RNG. - all these abilities are within the AP tree (auto heat venting = Proto cylinder venting) move speed buffs is pneumatic boots).. which can provide additional utility to the PT which increases raid dps that have no effect on traning dummy logs.. and doesn't rely on PPA procs (RNG) in order to manage heat and augment their dps as their heat management is essentially scheduled. Again, this part led me to think you were trolling since you meantioned Retractable Blade and DPS in the same phrase. AP does not provide any utility so if you can't keep up your dps you shouldn't be in the raid. The only way to keep up dps is to get your rotation down. The only way to get your rotation down is to practice on a DUMMY. None of the PT trees outside of the tank spec have any type of Utility that is PVE benefits. HO is decent, but does nothing for your party. Now i admit i posted this during work, so i didn't have hours of time to sort though the posts here.. perhaps i will look at your signature.. perhaps just on principle i wont and will just ask people their experiences raiding with AP subjectively as that is what really matters not someone parsing logs on a dummy as i can tell you even the MK5 is nothing like actually hitting the boss (at least 10-15% more dmg on dummy) and if you doubt my experinces send me a PM and i will enlighten you, cheers, Dummies are not used to tell you your exact dps, they are designed to help you fine tune and sharpen your rotation by finding the optimum rotation. Again if this is too confusing or if I seem like a bit of a jerk. It's because I perceived you to be a troll, and I really find trolls to be irritating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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