Blaster Rifle > Glowstick?

[Philosomanic]

I think that you guys have converted a glowstick-carrier. Right now, I'm playing a Balance Shadow. I enjoy the spec because it's a high-DPS, highly mobile, melee/range hybrid class. However, it has a lot of flaws and they've really been bugging me. For one thing, you have almost no damage past 10m range. Also, I'm tired of being so incredibly squishy. Light armor in melee range sucks. Also, a huge portion of the damage comes from long-duration (18s) DoTs, which is weaker for PvP or weak enemies.

 

I've been looking at other classes, and Vanguard looks really good to me. You're also really mobile, melee/ranged hybrid, and high DPS. You also have heavy armor, ungodly amounts of AoE, and actually high damage at 30m range. I know you have to be within 10m or less to do max range, but you can do a hell of a lot more than a Shadow at 30m. I'm also really looking forward to Harpoon and other utility skills.

 

Finally, there's something incredibly satisfying about running up to a sith with a lightsaber in each hand and hitting him in the face with your rifle. I'm only lvl 12 right now, but I'm already starting to wish I'd started out as a Vanguard. Obviously I'll have to keep playing to see what the class is truly like, but it seems way more suited to my playstyle than Balance Shadow was, and I thought that that was a perfect fit for me.

 

Also, I have a few questions:

 

1) What's the difference between Sticky Grenade and Assault Plastique?

Is it just a damage difference? How big is the difference? I'm considering going 5/11/25 or 2/11/28 in stead of 2/8/31, unless Assault Plastique is incredibly good.

 

 

2) Can Aric Jorgan use a Blaster Rifle?

I'm not a fan of the ridiculously oversized cannons in this game, especially when he carries it with one hand.

 

 

3) Do Assault and Tactics have roughly equal DPS?

That's what I've found with other classes. One might have more burst or AoE or something, but it seems like all DPS specs for one class have roughly equal DPS.

[Yamirashi]

I think that you guys have converted a glowstick-carrier. Right now, I'm playing a Balance Shadow. I enjoy the spec because it's a high-DPS, highly mobile, melee/range hybrid class. However, it has a lot of flaws and they've really been bugging me. For one thing, you have almost no damage past 10m range. Also, I'm tired of being so incredibly squishy. Light armor in melee range sucks. Also, a huge portion of the damage comes from long-duration (18s) DoTs, which is weaker for PvP or weak enemies.

 

I've been looking at other classes, and Vanguard looks really good to me. You're also really mobile, melee/ranged hybrid, and high DPS. You also have heavy armor, ungodly amounts of AoE, and actually high damage at 30m range. I know you have to be within 10m or less to do max range, but you can do a hell of a lot more than a Shadow at 30m. I'm also really looking forward to Harpoon and other utility skills.

 

Finally, there's something incredibly satisfying about running up to a sith with a lightsaber in each hand and hitting him in the face with your rifle. I'm only lvl 12 right now, but I'm already starting to wish I'd started out as a Vanguard. Obviously I'll have to keep playing to see what the class is truly like, but it seems way more suited to my playstyle than Balance Shadow was, and I thought that that was a perfect fit for me.

 

Coming from a Guardian to a Vanguard I pretty much felt the same way, "Why didn't I do this from the start???"

 

Also, I have a few questions:

 

1) What's the difference between Sticky Grenade and Assault Plastique?

Is it just a damage difference? How big is the difference? I'm considering going 5/11/25 or 2/11/28 in stead of 2/8/31, unless Assault Plastique is incredibly good.

 

I don't play that tree much, but you seem to have picked up that Sticky Grenade is completely replaced by Assault Plastique which is the main thing. Its a bit more burst damage but I know before the patch some people argued the Ammo cost of using it was not worth it because the other abilities had the chance to reset the cooldown on High Impact Bolt which was much more valuable. There have been some changes to how that cooldown reset works so I'm not sure what the overall feeling on the Assault Plastique question is anymore. I struggle to remember to use my Sticky Grenade sometimes so I probably wouldn't take it myself until I convinced myself I would use it consistently.

 

2) Can Aric Jorgan use a Blaster Rifle?

I'm not a fan of the ridiculously oversized cannons in this game, especially when he carries it with one hand.

 

Yes he CAN use a blaster rifle, but he will not do the same amount of damage with it. The same barrel in a Blaster Rifle does less damage than in an Assault Cannon the same way the same armor mod in Light Armor has less armor value than in Heavy Armor. I've not seen it confirmed but I think this is the way they compensate the mirror Mercenaries picking up an offhand weapon. Similar to Sniper Rifles doing more damage to compensate for Gunslingers getting two blaster pistols. Its doable and my not even be noticeable, but if you want Aric doing the most damage he can, which as a DPS companion that's his job, you wanna give him an Assault Cannon. (I agree it looks dumb on him, especially since up until he became your companion he ALWAYS had a rifle. Because of some of his story later I wish he could use a Sniper. Should get the same dmg bonus as the Assault Cannon but would probably look better on him)

 

3) Do Assault and Tactics have roughly equal DPS?

That's what I've found with other classes. One might have more burst or AoE or something, but it seems like all DPS specs for one class have roughly equal DPS.

 

Pre 1.2 they were not believed to be, which saddened me because I liked the Tactics play style better. Now that we have logs and dummies I'm sure we can get a definitive answer on that but I personally have not tested it or seen anyone else's results. I personally am of the belief that in most cases if you play what you like YOU will be more effective. I said "most cases" because you have to be reasonable. DPS specs will typically do more DPS than Healer or Tank specs regardless.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Yamirashi

[Philosomanic]

Oh, just remembered another question. How is Harpoon effected by resolve? I'm assuming a white bar prevents it's use. (Roughly) How much resolve does it add?

[Riogha]

i'm using 10/3/28 didnt take AP as its been nerfed slightly, cant say i miss it either.Using BM eliminator/combat tech mix atm.

 

If i recal harpoon adds 450 reslove.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Riogha

[Mozivicus]

Sticky grenade will have some splash damage, Assault Plastique does not. That's a useful little tip in combat so as to not piss off the glowbat holders who have CCd that elite droid

[Philosomanic]

Sticky grenade will have some splash damage, Assault Plastique does not. That's a useful little tip in combat so as to not piss off the glowbat holders who have CCd that elite droid

 

Really... that actually makes Sticky Grenade look better in most situations. I don't think it's worth taking AP for the occasional time you want to avoid breaking CC, especially since I'm more of a PvP player than PvE (where AoE is almost always a good thing).

 

Could someone look at tooltips and tell me how much the damage difference is? I'm not at home so I can't check my values.

[Yamirashi]

Oh, just remembered another question. How is Harpoon effected by resolve? I'm assuming a white bar prevents it's use. (Roughly) How much resolve does it add?

 

Click me

 

All you ever wanted to know about resolve.

[Philosomanic]

Click me

 

All you ever wanted to know about resolve.

 

Ah, thanks. I remembered that knockbacks are 400 resolve, but didn't realize that pulls were included in that category. Thanks!

[Mozivicus]

Really... that actually makes Sticky Grenade look better in most situations. I don't think it's worth taking AP for the occasional time you want to avoid breaking CC, especially since I'm more of a PvP player than PvE (where AoE is almost always a good thing).

 

Could someone look at tooltips and tell me how much the damage difference is? I'm not at home so I can't check my values.

 

For PvP, yes, most definitely the sticky grenade is going to give more "aoe" damage. But, like others have stated, the AP timed correctly (and both crit'd) with HIB is an awesome amount of damage.

 

****DEVS.... the actual damage done by these abilities is deplorable....please consider buffing them ******

 

There is a thread on assault spec DPS parser breakdown, and one of the key points of the discussion is the use of AP compared to SG, with real combat number to back it up. I highly recommend you peruse that thread.

[Philosomanic]

Okay, question #5. The Assault talent "Sweltering Heat" says:

 

Plasma Cell has a [50 / 100]% chance when it applies its effects to reduce the movement speed of the target by 50% for 2 seconds.

 

I see two ways this could be interpreted. The first is that when Plasma Cell applies the 6s DoT, it also applies a 50% slow for 2s. The second is that when Plasma Cell's DoT ticks, it applies the 2s slow. If the second is true, then this is actually an 8s slow and pretty easy to keep up at all times. I'm guessing the first is true, though.

 

Which is it?

Edited April 16, 2012 by Philosomanic

[Hethroin]

I would not do level 50 PVP without AP.

 

If you're using sticky to time burst a single target, then you are not being with your ammo, which is already at risk in the spec.

[Philosomanic]

I would not do level 50 PVP without AP.

 

If you're using sticky to time burst a single target, then you are not being with your ammo, which is already at risk in the spec.

 

They both cost two ammo, though, right? Is it really that high of a damage difference? Can you give me the numbers on your tooltips?

[Hethroin]

I don't know what sticky hits for in PVP, I have not used it since getting AP, back when I dinged level 40, which hits for 2.5 to 4k crit. Sticky is an AE tool. AP is a single target burst tool.

[Philosomanic]

I don't know what sticky hits for in PVP, I have not used it since getting AP, back when I dinged level 40, which hits for 2.5 to 4k crit. Sticky is an AE tool. AP is a single target burst tool.

 

...no one can give me a concrete idea of how big the difference is?

 

If you can actually open up SWTOR, then give me the numbers on the tooltips for each. If not, then give me a rough estimate, like "AP is ~20% more than sticky" or something. Right now, the only numbers I have to go on are from TORHead, which are:

 

Sticky Grenade: 858-923 (891)

Assault Plastique: 949

 

To me, a 6.5% increase in damage isn't worth giving up the AoE. If I could have a 107 damage single-target skill or a 100 damage AoE skill, I'd definitely go for the AoE. And that definitely doesn't look like it's worth spending talent points on, when you consider the incredibly good talents you could be spending them on.

 

People keep talking about the skills like there's a much bigger difference, though. So can someone give me a better idea of the difference?

[Mozivicus]

I'll test it tonight while popping adrenals, battle focus, and relics for AP vs sticky for ya.

[Hethroin]

...

People keep talking about the skills like there's a much bigger difference, though. So can someone give me a better idea of the difference?

 

I'm not at the gaming PC, or even within reasonable distance from it, to give you the exact numbers on my screen. But in my experience you get about double (that's ~100% more) the damage from a Plastique crit when compared to a sticky grenade crit on the same target. The difference is significant. Assault spec gives your AP +30% more crit damage, so the number on the tool tip will not reflect the true difference.

[Philosomanic]

I'm not at the gaming PC, or even within reasonable distance from it, to give you the exact numbers on my screen. But in my experience you get about double (that's ~100% more) the damage from a Plastique crit when compared to a sticky grenade crit on the same target. The difference is significant. Assault spec gives your AP +30% more crit damage, so the number on the tool tip will not reflect the true difference.

 

Oh, good point. I didn't notice that it was only AP and not Sticky for that Talent. I guess it's worth considering getting the skill, especially since "Burnout" and "Adrenaline Fueled" are looking more and more attractive to me as I think about them.

 

Also, this never got answered, so I'm going to repost:

 

 

 

 

Okay, question #5. The Assault talent "Sweltering Heat" says:

Plasma Cell has a [50 / 100]% chance when it applies its effects to reduce the movement speed of the target by 50% for 2 seconds.

I see two ways this could be interpreted. The first is that when Plasma Cell applies the 6s DoT, it also applies a 50% slow for 2s. The second is that when Plasma Cell's DoT ticks, it applies the 2s slow. If the second is true, then this is actually an 8s slow and pretty easy to keep up at all times. I'm guessing the first is true, though.

 

Which is it?

Edited April 17, 2012 by Philosomanic

[RangerBeo]

Phil, I am pretty sure you have already seen this but just in case you have not ...it might help you

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/

 

Enjoy!

Edited April 17, 2012 by RangerBeo

[concles]

Assault Trooper boosts the crit bonus damage of AP by 15/30%, so when it crits, it crits big. If you have Incendiary Round ticking, pop your CDs, throw an AP, fire a HIB, and time a SS to go off with your AP, it does pretty silly damage.

[Philosomanic]

Level 14 now, and I'm loving this class even more. The insane kill speed of a Vanguard with Aric Jorgan out is crazy. Sticky Grenade -> Pulse Cannon will destroy a group of landscape mobs, and I can even take down strongs and elites in a hurry. Things that were incredibly hard on my Shadow are much easier now. I'm leveling incredibly fast.

 

PvP is awesome too. I've done five warzones, and gotten top damage for all of them. Part of that is Bolster combined with my blue/purple crafted gear (made this guy an armormech ), but it's also that the class fits exactly how I want to play. And I have to say, I've yet to find anything more satisfying than using stockstrike on a sith with a lightsaber in each hand, or using Pulse Cannon on five imps trying to cap a node in Novare.

 

I'm so mad that I didn't start as a Vanguard. I could be level 50, and moderately geared out by now. But at least I have legacy buffs. It's great being able to rely on the 10% internal/elemental reduction from the Consular buff.

[Hethroin]

Things that were incredibly hard on my Shadow are much easier now. I'm leveling incredibly fast.

 

The only thing I found the tank shadow to be better at was soloing even level champions. I thought the shadow was top dog for this, but then I got the healing companion on my watchman sentinel and my eyes were opened. The sentinel has as much passive mitigation with rebuke up as the full-tank-spec shadow and does 2-3 times more damage and self healing.

[Philosomanic]

By the way, for anyone wondering about this:

The Assault talent "Sweltering Heat" says: Plasma Cell has a [50 / 100]% chance when it applies its effects to reduce the movement speed of the target by 50% for 2 seconds.

 

I see two ways this could be interpreted. The first is that when Plasma Cell applies the 6s DoT, it also applies a 50% slow for 2s. The second is that when Plasma Cell's DoT ticks, it applies the 2s slow. If the second is true, then this is actually an 8s slow and pretty easy to keep up at all times. I'm guessing the first is true, though.

 

Which is it?

 

I got the talent. The answer is that it's the second one. That means Assault gets a 50% slow that we can keep up constantly with ease. It's already come in handy while chasing people down with Hammer Shot in PvP. It only takes one or two Hammer Shots to proc, and then they're slowed by 50% for 8s. I think the best part is that you get it by attacking normally; you don't have to spend a GCD on a skill just for the slow (like Consulars do with Force Slow). Dead useful for kiting melee, especially with Ion Pulse's guaranteed proc.