Not "Mercenary" only "Heal for Hire"

[Zxae]

I Love PVP. But I also love balanced diversity. Take a look at what classes are playing PVP at 50. Just a small number of classes and builds. I had hoped, albeit a forlorn hope, that there would be a place for DPS Mercs in end game. The best Bounty Hunter Merc is Healing, e.g. Bodyguard.

- The Merc Pyro is no loger good at the one thing it was good at, DOTs, since patch 1.something. Now its rather weak.

- The 1.2 patch hit the Arsenal build hard. It now has a serious overheating problem which results in a significant of loss of damage. "Rattattat" (which still bugs out) does little or no damage while you wait for cool-down (so you die). And missiles now come from your wrist? OK, that is an improvement.

- If heat problems persist, any Merc build will make an OK secondary DPS, but not a great lead DPS. And OK classes are soon not played at all.

- In PVP before Patch 1.2 when a light saber closed on you, you maybe had a chance... with heat issues, there is no chance for survival in PVP. We need your help here.

- In PVE...well, with this nerf the class can't 2 man well. Sad. Epic failure on the Ilum Heroic 2. Never saw that coming. Yeah, I know how to play my class and I'm mostly Battlemaster equipped. I can kick tail if I have half a chance. Just give me that chance.

 

Here's the tough part. A lot of SWTOR players put a significant amount of time into their DPS toons. If they wanted healers, they would have built healers.

- Respecing and then getting the Battlemaster gear AGAIN for this toon is not going to happen. Lets not put these toons on the shelf. A little help here!

- "Heal for Hire" might be a better name than Mercenary.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Zxae

[Sybaris]

I Love PVP. But I also love balanced diversity. Take a look at what classes are playing PVP at 50. Just a small number of classes and builds. I had hoped, albeit a forlorn hope, that there would be a place for DPS Mercs in end game. Unfortunately, I have found none. The only build a Bounty Hunter Merc is good at is Healing, e.g. Bodyguard.

- The Merc Pyro is no loger good at the one thing it was good at, DOTs, since patch 1.something. So that build not worth your time.

- The 1.2 patch hit the Arsenal build hard. It now has a serious overheating problem which results in a significant of loss of damage. "Rattattat" (which still bugs out) does little or no damage while you wait for cool-down (so you die). And missiles now come from your pistol?, not your back. Sigh.

- Any Merc build now makes an OK secondary DPS, but are no longer a great lead DPS. And OK classes are soon not played at all.

- In PVP before Patch 1.2 when a light saber closed on you, you maybe had a chance... Now there is no chance for survival in PVP.

- In PVE...well, with this nerf the class can't 2 man well. Sad. Epic failure on the Ilum Heroic 2. Never saw that coming. Yeah, I know how to play my class and I'm mostly Battlemaster equipped. I can kick tail if I have half a chance. My chances just turned to dust.

 

Here's the tough part. A lot of SWTOR players put a significant amount of time into their DPS toons. If they wanted healers, they would have built healers.

- Respecing and then getting the Battlemaster gear AGAIN for this toon is not going to happen. Sorry SWTOR if you wanted DPS, this toon goes on the shelf.

- To save the class, recommend a class name change. "Mercenary" is misleading. Call this Choice "Heal for Hire". Then you won't disappoint some poor gamer who think he's getting a killer DPS class.

 

 

Edit: I've come to change my opinion about Merc pvp viability. The Merc's survivability is what basically caused be to rethink my opinion, particularly given the increase in Marauders/Sentinels and Pyro pec'd Powertechs. I can still put out great damage, but I've abandoned arsenal all together as even an option in pvp. Pyro works well, but it becomes less and less effective with every Maraud/Sent on the enemy team. Although i can kite one marauder successfully, I can't kite two of them, and I can't kite a Powertech. So, yeah... This is the first time i've changed opinion on this type of thing.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Sybaris

[Calavero]

I found the OP amusing. Hyperbole might make your complaints sound more convincing, but that approach falls short when people actually know what you're talking about.

 

Arsenal DPS throughput should be roughly the same in 1.2 as it was before 1.2. Tracer Missile's 10% damage reduction is offset by Heat Seeker Missile's 10% damage buff, as well as a 50% increase in Unload procs. Rough theorycraft calculations of overall Arsenal DPS post-patch are ranging from 5% less to 5% more than pre-patch.

 

Bottom line, if there's a difference, then it's a very small one.

 

I have a 50 Arsenal Merc, a 50 Gunnery Commando, a 20 Vanguard Commando, and am leveling a second Arsenal Merc, currently level 35. This would be the first I've heard of Unload consistently not doing damage. To be honest, I think you just made that part up.

 

Arsenal heat management was totally unchanged by 1.2. If anything, Arsenal is now slightly more heat efficient than before, due to increased use of Unload in the rotation.

 

In short, Merc DPS is fine. You say you know how to play your class, but you sure don't know how your class works.

[Sybaris]

I found the OP amusing. Hyperbole might make your complaints sound more convincing, but that approach falls short when people actually know what you're talking about.

 

Arsenal DPS throughput should be roughly the same in 1.2 as it was before 1.2. Tracer Missile's 10% damage reduction is offset by Heat Seeker Missile's 10% damage buff, as well as a 50% increase in Unload procs. Rough theorycraft calculations of overall Arsenal DPS post-patch are ranging from 5% less to 5% more than pre-patch.

 

Bottom line, if there's a difference, then it's a very small one.

 

I have a 50 Arsenal Merc, a 50 Gunnery Commando, a 20 Vanguard Commando, and am leveling a second Arsenal Merc, currently level 35. This would be the first I've heard of Unload consistently not doing damage. To be honest, I think you just made that part up.

 

Arsenal heat management was totally unchanged by 1.2. If anything, Arsenal is now slightly more heat efficient than before, due to increased use of Unload in the rotation.

 

In short, Merc DPS is fine. You say you know how to play your class, but you sure don't know how your class works.

 

 

Totally Agree. I can get top dps with both Arsenal and Pyrotech pre and post 1.2. I've tested both out extensively. I see little difference with minor adjustment.

[Zxae]

Thank you SWTOR for your tweaks to Mercenary post initial 1.2. You quickly fixed what I perceived to be a definite problem. Huge thanks to the two team leaders I talked to. You guys really care and are quick to respond. Heat is improved, not as it was prior to 1.2, but it is a little better. You still nailed us. I now have Heat and Damage changes that I can live with, but not with a simle. Our class will certainly be played less.

I do like the no- crouching stance my toon now takes in combat. It's more realistic. I can visualize the proposed forearm mounted rockets on the Armor!

We still can use a boost to make us more competitive. I'm here for the long haul.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Zxae

[Joeblows]

Anyone saying that mercenary did not take a hit is on acid... EOD

[darthtrunkmonkey]

my merc wins just about 75% of the time in a 1 v 1.

 

pyro is just fine, l2p

 

arsenal is better for pve right now. granted pyro prolly performs just as good, might be a better off because its dps doesnt have to drop while moving.

[jorgehyde]

i think peoples concern about mercs is generally valid, even healing is not balanced compared to that of other heal classes. we may be functional and effective to a point, but we're definitely inferior.

 

as far as damage/healing output goes we got hit hard which i think was warranted pre 1.2 to a degree, but they certainly went overbored with these changes especially considering that our utility/survivability mechanics are negligible comparatively.

 

i mostly pvp so that is where i draw comparisons and the largest balance discrepancy i see from a healers perspective is with sorcerers who have ridiculous healing output and are one of the best scoring classes in huttball. my healing numbers in a game don't come close to those of a sorcs... if i hit 300k they are hitting 500-600k. utility wise you can compare our knockback efficacy, which is situational and a delay tactic at best, to sorcs sprint which gives cc immunity allowing them to dominate scoring in huttball not to mention escape any threatening situation.

 

operatives are a little more inline as their utility is not as crazy, but their healing numbers are significantly larger than ours as well, on par with sorcs. also i would argue that stealth is more beneficial than our knockback.

 

anyway, 2 cents. i'm not game rage quitter and i generally play games for a long time before giving up on them, but these balance issues along with many other issues that seem to be take way to long to fix are driving me away. i've already unsubbed with the hope of renewing if and when changes are made. i hope i get to.

Edited May 14, 2012 by jorgehyde

[ManiacalShen]

Arsenal heat management was totally unchanged by 1.2. If anything, Arsenal is now slightly more heat efficient than before, due to increased use of Unload in the rotation.

 

This is the only statement of yours I disagree with. I definitely noticed a bigger problem with heat after 1.2 and moved some talent points around to compensate. Before 1.2, I didn't have or need the talent that makes Vent Heat vent more heat.

 

But yeah, I agree with everything else you guys have responded to the OP with, and I'll add that missiles don't come from your PISTOL, they come from the launcher on your wrist. Notice how your left gauntlet looks different from your right?

[Zxae]

Thanks for all the input. We have seen some heat improvements since 1.2 but heat remains a bigger issue that it was. Looks like we can live with it though. I'm not happy about 1.2 for my Arsenal Merc, I remain optimistic that SWTOR will re-look and perhaps fix some of the above noted bad tweaks. Edited May 14, 2012 by Zxae

[Ifrit]

A lot of your small points I disagree with, but overall the OP is correct. Merc DPS is pathetic considering it is the easiest dps to shutdown and Juggy/Mara/Pyro PT all do MORE dps and are very difficult to stop.

[otherworlder]

I found the OP amusing. Hyperbole might make your complaints sound more convincing, but that approach falls short when people actually know what you're talking about.

 

Arsenal DPS throughput should be roughly the same in 1.2 as it was before 1.2. Tracer Missile's 10% damage reduction is offset by Heat Seeker Missile's 10% damage buff, as well as a 50% increase in Unload procs. Rough theorycraft calculations of overall Arsenal DPS post-patch are ranging from 5% less to 5% more than pre-patch.

 

Bottom line, if there's a difference, then it's a very small one.

 

I have a 50 Arsenal Merc, a 50 Gunnery Commando, a 20 Vanguard Commando, and am leveling a second Arsenal Merc, currently level 35. This would be the first I've heard of Unload consistently not doing damage. To be honest, I think you just made that part up.

 

Arsenal heat management was totally unchanged by 1.2. If anything, Arsenal is now slightly more heat efficient than before, due to increased use of Unload in the rotation.

 

In short, Merc DPS is fine. You say you know how to play your class, but you sure don't know how your class works.

 

If you posted this without a snicker then I'm willing to bet you've not actually played a merc at 50 post 1.2. The stated changes to the class are correctly recounted by you, but in fact the class took a hard, hard nerf. Tracer damage went down, but contrary to popular belief and what the original patch notes indicated, HSM damage went in the toilet too.

 

Why? According to BW, multiple BHs were profiting from each other's heat sig stacks, increasing damage output to HSM beyond what BW wanted. In their effort to fix this, they made it so that even our OWN individual heat signature stacks don't increase HSM damage.

 

Net result? HSM doesn't hit substantially harder than our nerfed TMs now.

 

Their reply to all this? That post 1.2, the HSM multi-stacking problem was already in effect, and no one knew. So in essence, they based all of their 1.2 nerfs to Arsenal mercs on bugged data with damage that was hitting higher than they intended.

 

Don't listen to theorycrafters who don't play the class. Listen to the people who play it, and are shelving their mercs in droves in disgust. This is not a "we got a little nerf, waaah" situation. Mercs have very limited burst now, the same limitations (constant turret mode, poor survivability/utility, low skill cap) and while some good players struggle to outperform the limitations of the class, those good players would double their value to a team behind the wheel of any other AC.

 

And yes, Pyro is more mobile and much better for PvP than Arsenal. It still has very limited burst and is inferior to the other dps ACs in almost every conceivable respect.