Immortal Juggernaut Ability Bloat

[Traumahawk]

I still don't get what people are complaining about. There could be improvements but I wouldn't complain that its not perfect, nothing ever is.

 

People are complaining because MMO mechanics and user interface design have been fleshed out for nearly a decade. Through the years of player feedback, game companies have learned to create experiences that are the least confounding and awkward. For this class specifically, and in this game, it does not appear that Bioware was sensitive to ergonomics and design. I'm still trying to figure out if it's a matter of design philosophy, or if it's just too late to back to the drawing board. Neither are acceptable.

 

In fact, the official reasons given for adding abilities such as Pommel Strike, seem like highly defensive responses with no real rationale behind them. So we are told that Pommel Strike et al. is given to us to take out weak mobs quickly. So what? Why can't we use one of the already existing spells to do that? Perhaps if that's the case, I should have two versions of every spell on my action bars--one for elites and one for weak mobs.

 

Interestingly, we are also told that Juggernaut tanks shouldn't even be worrying about trash in the first place...just let them run wild while we concentrate on silver and gold con mobs that pommel strike doesn't work on in the first place.

 

Also, you alienate a hefty percentage of your player base that does not bind abilities beyond the basic number keys and occasional alphabet keys. Imagine a new player comes to find out how to manage 30+ "core" abilities in order to tank, and is told that the only viable way is to bind all function keys, all number keys, all iterations of number keys and modifiers, etc etc. It is unreasonable and a step backward in UI design.

 

Obviously something is not right with the current design. The players agreeing with the OP range from casual folk to seasoned MMO vets. In addition, I can tell you that myself and many others sang this exact same song in beta both unsolicited and during class feedback sessions. I shouldn't have to point to all of the games, both past and present, that require great skill and mastery, but are both elegant and intuitive in design--without unnecessary fluff.

[Samurro]

...

 

 

You take those two "useless" skills for example to explain the big amount of general juggernaut skills, which is wrong. You don't have to use Pommel Strike and Savage Kick at all, I only use them when I get bored, because I like the animation of the Kick! Or if you start questing on Ilum solo, you will see how incredible strong those normal mobs got and you want to kill them very fast, thats where those two skills come in.

 

But apart from that you don't really need them and if I hadnt found my perfect keybind configuartion for my lvl 50 jugg, I would also not bind them at all. If peeps are interested I could upload an image of my UI to showcase my binds...

 

And please don't cut the juggernaut down with less skills, because I think every skill apart from those two has its uses and would be missed, I like the way of having so many options when dealing with mobs/players. Making this game more casual friendly would be a big mistake in my book.

[Traumahawk]

You take those two "useless" skills for example to explain the big amount of general juggernaut skills, which is wrong. You don't have to use Pommel Strike and Savage Kick at all, I only use them when I get bored, because I like the animation of the Kick! Or if you start questing on Ilum solo, you will see how incredible strong those normal mobs got and you want to kill them very fast, thats where those two skills come in.

 

But apart from that you don't really need them and if I hadnt found my perfect keybind configuartion for my lvl 50 jugg, I would also not bind them at all. If peeps are interested I could upload an image of my UI to showcase my binds...

 

And please don't cut the juggernaut down with less skills, because I think every skill apart from those two has its uses and would be missed, I like the way of having so many options when dealing with mobs/players. Making this game more casual friendly would be a big mistake in my book.

 

I don't have the luxury of keeping spells on my action bar to use when I'm bored of slashing animations. I've run out of room because I am not allowed to have 3 action bars at the bottom.

 

Beyond that, there is no correlation implied or currently existing between UI/spell ergonomics and difficulty. Chess is a difficult game--yet it is simplistic in design. Would you argue that making it more complex would "enhance" the amount of mastery required to win?

Edited January 1, 2012 by Traumahawk

[WielandExiles]

I might be a bit slow, but I still do not find where you find all those "options". The 7-or-so finishers (not counting the conditionals) are based on a rather rigid priority system, so there is no real choice. You are never ever using vicious slash when you can use crushing blow. You could cut or merge some of those without removing anything compelling from the SW gameplay : when to generate rage, when to burn rage, utility, fun stuff like knockback&charge, ... Most of your GCD are used by "mandatory" skills (sundering, crushing, scream...) that are clearly above the others and that you are more or less forced to use on cooldown, the cases when you have to make hard choices are actually marginal.

 

 

PS :Samurro yes, I would welcome a screenshot of your ui

[Samurro]

Its quite simple: http://imgur.com/yaono

 

And yes, I don't have keybinds to consumeables, throw ball or my relic. I just click them...and no this doesn't make me bad in PvP.

 

To the left are some WASD+Shift binds, including those "useless" skills. On the right action bar are the mandatory buffs, which are bound to F1-F4. My Lightsaberform doesn't have to change so it is not bound either, just having it on the bar to confirm its active, sometimes buggy.

 

I don't even use keybinds in conjunctino with ALT or STRG (strg is default bound for companion skills anyway).

 

And say Crushing Blow is the same as Vicious Slash, just because its a "weaker" Rage dump is just not true. CB is a talent, not everybody is going to take it and if CB is on cooldown you have to use Vicious Slash if everything else is on CD, which I encounter pretty often.

 

Edit:

I also use only one extra mouse button, the other is bound to push to talk for voice programs.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Samurro

[Xerres]

Don't start ************ too much about how hard this class is, or soon they will make it stupid easy and even more 13 year old's will give the class a go.

 

Now I want this class to be stupidly easy just to make you unhappy.

 

Do it Bioware. I'd rather deal with the 13 year olds than the people making cracks at them.

[karlblackdog]

People are complaining because MMO mechanics and user interface design have been fleshed out for nearly a decade. Through the years of player feedback, game companies have learned to create experiences that are the least confounding and awkward. For this class specifically, and in this game, it does not appear that Bioware was sensitive to ergonomics and design. I'm still trying to figure out if it's a matter of design philosophy, or if it's just too late to back to the drawing board. Neither are acceptable.

 

In fact, the official reasons given for adding abilities such as Pommel Strike, seem like highly defensive responses with no real rationale behind them. So we are told that Pommel Strike et al. is given to us to take out weak mobs quickly. So what? Why can't we use one of the already existing spells to do that? Perhaps if that's the case, I should have two versions of every spell on my action bars--one for elites and one for weak mobs.

 

Interestingly, we are also told that Juggernaut tanks shouldn't even be worrying about trash in the first place...just let them run wild while we concentrate on silver and gold con mobs that pommel strike doesn't work on in the first place.

 

Also, you alienate a hefty percentage of your player base that does not bind abilities beyond the basic number keys and occasional alphabet keys. Imagine a new player comes to find out how to manage 30+ "core" abilities in order to tank, and is told that the only viable way is to bind all function keys, all number keys, all iterations of number keys and modifiers, etc etc. It is unreasonable and a step backward in UI design.

 

Obviously something is not right with the current design. The players agreeing with the OP range from casual folk to seasoned MMO vets. In addition, I can tell you that myself and many others sang this exact same song in beta both unsolicited and during class feedback sessions. I shouldn't have to point to all of the games, both past and present, that require great skill and mastery, but are both elegant and intuitive in design--without unnecessary fluff.

 

I'm a new player (first mmo ever) and I have no issue. Do not presume to speak for me.

 

I agree that the jugg needs some changes (the bloat is annoying), but it is a common stereotype among other gamers that mmo players are the nitpickiest in the gaming community.

 

And when you use hyperbolic words to describe "issues" on a f-ing game, you might not win points with this casual at least.

[Traumahawk]

I'm a new player (first mmo ever) and I have no issue. Do not presume to speak for me.

 

I agree that the jugg needs some changes (the bloat is annoying), but it is a common stereotype among other gamers that mmo players are the nitpickiest in the gaming community.

 

And when you use hyperbolic words to describe "issues" on a f-ing game, you might not win points with this casual at least.

 

What hyperbole are you referring to exactly? I'm glad to defend it or retract it if necessary, but please point out the points you are talking about.