A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

[Lindraskada]

just one thing i want to add, for people who are throwing around numbers, equations, etc:

 

DPS: Main stat yields damage -> modified by Expertise

 

healing: main stat yields healing -> LOSE 30% -> modified by Expertise

[QuiJonPed]

That aside, the only "stupidity" here is someone who pops their CC breaker without full resolve coupled with a squishy healer without a tank guarding them.

 

It's funny how healer from a pre made still manage to cope.

 

TL@DR?

 

You're doing it wrong.

 

Healing requires skill and teamplay now, try it.

 

Ker Ching. You're doing it right

 

Thanks, but I'd rather just go easy mode and play DPS! No skill, no tactics, just press a button and watch healers die!

 

Cool. So when your PUG/Premade gets wasted by a premade with a healer, will you then spam the forums about how unfair it is?

 

By the way, I'm an Operative healer.

Edited April 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
IC - quote/reply

[Zekiirah]

1. A DPS class is what you would refer to as a "solo" class, meaning it can and will do its job without support.

2. A healer is a "Team" Class, meaning without a team a "healer" is not a "healer" because they have no one to heal.

**** This being the case a healer should die to a DPS. Because without a Team, a healer is useless and is supposed to be such, they are NOT meant to be able to self heal and tank anything and everything better then any other class by themselves.

** They are meant to support, save, and heal their team mates. When in a Team.

 

Your logic is flawed, as you are trying to compare a class with a totally different function and purpose and which is meant to be played "solo" (DPS) to a Class which is NOT meant to be played solo and is meant to be used in a "team".

 

Stating my logic is flawed within the first few sentences is not a stellar way to change my mind. What I have written is my opinion, therefore my logic is my own, as is yours that I do not agree with.

 

I was not comparing in the way you have perceived it. I used ProfessorWalsh's notion that the job of DPS is to kill, because it was "the point," in order to explain that to me, we feel our jobs are not to only delay death, but to overcome it and save players from time to time. I believe that one DPS should not kill me without using interrupts while I heal myself. If I decide to go all out and DPS them and put healing on the backseat, yes. I'm probably not gonna make it out alive against a Pyrotech or a Marauder or the other classes I'm forgetting. I don't expect to.

 

Before 1.2 a Healer could do anything and everything by themselves without help, without assistance. (I soloed heroic areas 5 levels above me FYI before 1.2) Generally speaking no other class could solo a heroic by themselves at "their" level, let alone one 5 levels higher them them.

 

Bioware did not make a game so healers could be the end all be all class and do everything. Bioware designed healers NOT for solo play but for "Support".

 

Concerning your FYI statement about Heroic areas, yes. Healers in general have always had it easier to solo because they can heal themselves. Much of my grinding was done by myself with Qyzen tanking. It was fun, and it provided a challenge in which I learned to do things at a far slower but steady pace than those geared for DPS. Before 1.2 I could certainly hold my own better with or without a guard, but if I played against a team that had equal skill to mine, it was one bloody and entertaining match. I died plenty then.

 

I never said healers had to be the end all be all class, nor did I even come close to hinting at that.

 

*** Post 1.2 you as a Healer are REQUIRED to have a team supporting you, so that you can heal them. this is how a healer is supposed to function.

 

Please remember that healers are "TEAM" classes and are designed and Meant to be played in a "TEAM" environment.

Please Remember that DPS is a "SOLO" class and while being able to be used in a team is meant for "SOLO" play.

"Healing" defines an action towards another by definition, NOT towards the self. (Even though you can "Heal" yourself) this is not what the verb name refers to. A healer is an individual who heals others by definition.

 

What I was adamant about in my post is that, once again,

 

Bioware cannot make changes solely on the basis that they think it will promote more teamwork and coordination.... Bioware cannot and should not assume that players will always have the means to be with someone who will do the correct kind of support.

 

As far as asking me to remember these quoted words of yours, I have my own definitions and thoughts that I have explained and stated in my previous post and this one.

 

You logic that "If DPS can do their job (Which is deal damage) why Can't healers survive, the damage they deal with no support is flawed, due to this fact. If healers were meant to be played solo as DPS are they would be able to pump out decent dps. Obviously since they deal practically no damage when geared correctly and speced right this should tell you that alone you are not "meant" to play "alone" and therefore can not be compared to a class which IS in fact meant to be played SOLO.

 

Where did I ever state that the healer's sole job was to survive? I asked why it was considered overpowered for the most focus fired class to prepare for that kind of targeting. It is a common tactic in every other MMO I have played and no member of those gaming communities cries foul about it. I stated that if the point of DPS was to kill, then the opposite job of a healer would naturally fall to preventing a death, not merely delaying it.

 

Your post is your opinion, your welcome to it, but it wont change what type of class and category of class a healer is and how they are meant to be played. Which unfortunately for you if your a healer, is NOT solo....This is not Biowares fault, this is your teams fault. 1.2 fixed the Godmode for healers and rebalanced them so that they do EXACTLY what they are supposed to do. Rather then being the end all be all of every class + Godmode.

 

Again. I never, ever stated we should be able to run around soloing everything while simultaneously keeping everyone alive through a bajillion different DPS skills. I've never had that happen to me, personally. I stipulated that I had an issue with the fact that the most focus fired class in any MMO should not be given some form of protecting themselves, since as you have stated, we should never be able to do a damn thing about the damage itself.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Zekiirah
Need for a more concise post.

[zaknaphein]

All you people saying healing requires teamwork, or I am not doing it right, you must live under a rock. I have a sage, and a commando healer. Both I loved healing at pre 1.2, then came the nerf. I should NOT die 1v1 against a dps. Why should I heal if I cannot even keep myself alive? There is no reason to heal anymore. The whole point of healing is to save lives. If I cannot save my own, I sure as hell cannot save another guy.

 

If my teammate is getting attacked by 1 guy, who has better gear than my teammate, as I heal him the odds are, he will die. This is stupid! I play WoW and SWTOR and healing in WoW is OP, but I was able to stay alive. I was also (as a rogue) able to down a healer 1v1. Killing healers is possible, unless you are a blind and deaf. I could 1v1 a healer down in SWTOR (pre 1.2) as a scoundrel as long as I used my interrupts right, and I gave kudos to people who killed my healer in 1v1.

 

I swear, all the dps crying "NERF!" on heals or telling me it was needed.... They are all a bunch of kids who only know the attacks you get at level 1, and have no idea what a cc is. If this continues, pvp healers will soon be a legend talked about acxross the interwebs... "LOL what? What was a healer?"

 

agreed, this game has too much cc with the current state. Either revert dmg or do something about cc. Being stunned for 8seconds with this kind of dmg on you, no chance

[Newsinz]

Want to fix healing? Make it scale with Expertise. It's only fair considering our main goal is healing and the main goal for DPS is dealing damage... yet they get a buff from Expertise.

 

I am going to go ahead and go way back... there were lots of posts talking about how expertise would ruin PvP... guess they were right. That and the heavy handed nerfs/buffs.

[Lindraskada]

im just spewing out mental ideas here so bear with me :

 

why dont we get STANCEs like melee do ?

 

Stance 1: DPS - 50%, Healing Untouched

Stance 2: DPS - Untouched, Healing -50%

 

or something, so we can do one or the other ? so you dont get people spamming dps and healing ? and yes i know its not amazing is specced for but its all cumulative

[Sheikshufti]

To tell the truth, i am deeply torn on this point. As an introduction, i play a scoundrel healer and i normaly enjoy playing PvP.

As the opening post said, TOR was, and to some point, is different form other MMOs when it comes to PvP. I started back in the days with DAoC, and especially pre 1.2 TOR reminded me of those days. It was rewarding players, especially tanks and healers, that could and would think about how the game works, what was important and it strongly supported teamplay. With 1.2 there came several changes, and while i think, that most of these changes were needed, for me it is the combination of these, let's call it efforts, that make playing a healer no more fun.

I noticed three major changes that came with the recent patch: first of the overall damage output was increased, second most healers underwent major changes and the healing output was reduced. Third, the idea of hybrid specs was more or less completly removed from the game.

I want to start with the third point, Hybrid specs. Something that has no real impact on the current situation, but shows on how narrowminded the 1.2PvP has become. As a Scoundrel/Ops you could deal decent damage, do some healing, never en par with pure dmg/heal specs, but most important you could go and try things on your own or with a partner: e.g. planting a bomb in an Voidstar, capturing turrets in an Civil War. It felt like 1,5 dmg dealer and 0,5 healer, and that gave you the edge in most 2vs2 or so. Bioware obviously didn't want to have such things, so they "fixed" it. Fine by me, although i prefere games that challenge you, but most people disagree on that.

The other two points, dmg increase and healingoutput decrease work now in combination and that is, where the problems for healers beginn. I agree, it was hard to kill a healer pre 1.2, especially hard when he was guarded and geared. So it was right to increase the dmg output of dps classes, so that it doesn't take ages to kill a healer with guard. OR it was right to decrease the healing output healers do, so that a healer can't keep himself and others alive while being beaten with lightsabers. BUT the combination of both aspects, and my bet is, that bioware never really tested the effects, makes healing very frustrating. There are games where i spend more time in the starting box, then actually participating in the game. And while i can understand the frustration a dps class feels, when they have to beat some target for ages and the victim still does not die, they at least can "play" the game not just wait and watch. Most people say "learn to play, it is a team effort now"! Right you are, it is. But why are dmgdealers allowed to have fun playing the game on their own, while healers have to wait for someone with a teamoriented gameplay in mind to enjoy TOR? If i team up with a tank and a dmg dealer, playing is totaly different for me, i get protection, i get someone peeling nasty meeles of me and so on. It feels a bit like pre 1.2, just people still die faster. But once you play on your own, as a healer you are screwed. And that is probably the most frustrating thing and the reason why healers are uspet. But as long as you didn't enjoy the view of the other side, this fact is probably hard to understand.

[oMGitsree]

Right you are, it is. But why are dmgdealers allowed to have fun playing the game on their own, while healers have to wait for someone with a teamoriented gameplay in mind to enjoy TOR? .

 

Exactly! This...

[Buckit]

Just curious, I know there's no way for any of us to know for sure, but I'm wondering:

 

Do any of you think BW will address healer nerfs in the near future? Perhaps a lengthy explanation or maybe some undoing of the 1.2 changes?

 

I've invested all my TOR playing time into one character, and spent most play time in PVP. This character is currently unplayable, IMHO. (EDIT: Ok unplayable is a bit extreme. But "no longer fun to play" definitely applies for me right now.) I need to decide whether to mothball him and invest a significant amount of time in a new alt or do a complete respec and grind for new gear (PVP and PVE), which may not even help.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Buckit

[noladev]

That aside, the only "stupidity" here is someone who pops their CC breaker without full resolve coupled with a squishy healer without a tank guarding them.

 

It's funny how healer from a pre made still manage to cope.

 

TL@DR?

 

You're doing it wrong.

 

 

 

Ker Ching. You're doing it right

 

 

 

Cool. So when your PUG/Premade gets wasted by a premade with a healer, will you then spam the forums about how unfair it is?

 

By the way, I'm an Operative healer.

 

Operative healers are the best in the game.

[Khoraji]

Just curious, I know there's no way for any of us to know for sure, but I'm wondering:

 

Do any of you think BW will address healer nerfs in the near future? Perhaps a lengthy explanation or maybe some undoing of the 1.2 changes?

 

I've invested all my TOR playing time into one character, and spent most play time in PVP. This character is currently unplayable, IMHO. I need to decide whether to mothball him and invest a significant amount of time in a new alt or do a complete respec and grind for new gear (PVP and PVE), which may not even help.

 

Are you a merc/trooper healer? Just judging by your profile pic. We are not unplayable lol. We were close to gods before, healing through 3-5 DPS without running out of resources. Today we are more in line with what a healer should be. Did we get nerfed a bit too hard? Yea probably, they didn't have to nerf the bonus healing from kolto missile, they didn't have to nerf the Supercharged gas so damn hard.

 

I am still healing for 300-600k every match...unless we just roll over them, and then my healing is still higher than any of the DMG.

 

OPS now get better numbers than us, but we are still the best single target healers in the game. Which is more important than a bunch of HoT's IMO.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Khoraji

[mikegr]

Do any of you think BW will address healer nerfs in the near future? Perhaps a lengthy explanation or maybe some undoing of the 1.2 changes?

 

I can guarantee that BW will not make healers a viable class as this point. The have already lost most of the people who started the game as a healer and now they are relying on the DPS players for income. If they do something to make the DPS players angry, the game will simply die in short order. That is why you saw them fix the WZ medal thing as quickly as possible. With a DPS only game, I predict that they will survive until something better and more balanced comes out.

 

When the forum complaints die down, there will always be new players leveling healers, but once they get to 50 with full gear and realize they are an easy kill, they will simply quit playing and go elsewhere because that is no fun for anyone! They will pay their subscription for 3-4 months and that really all BW needs as long as they are the newest game in town! You don't really need healers for pvp in this game anyway because wins and gear gained are mostly based on who can do the most damage. Unlike most other mmo's, DPS in this game has a very good survivability rate in the first place.

[Vexera]

All I can say is that I am unsubscribing.

 

Logged into the game today to get a feel if anything has been done to address the healing mess up. Nada has changed. Was in a 2v2 in a WZ and it's seriously silly how quickly I get killed. I may as well not be there at all.

 

I too have levelled and invested my time in 1 character. I absolutely refuse to spend another 4 weeks levelling a new character.

 

GG BioWare.

[Khoraji]

All I can say is that I am unsubscribing.

 

Logged into the game today to get a feel if anything has been done to address the healing mess up. Nada has changed. Was in a 2v2 in a WZ and it's seriously silly how quickly I get killed. I may as well not be there at all.

 

I too have levelled and invested my time in 1 character. I absolutely refuse to spend another 4 weeks levelling a new character.

 

GG BioWare.

 

So instead of trying to get better, your going to quit?

 

Bye.

[hairlessOrphan]

So instead of trying to get better, your going to quit?

 

Bye.

 

Sounds reasonable to me. There are better things to get better at in life than SWToR. For most people, anyway.

 

EDIT for clarify: the point I'm trying to make is this: present an argument for why he or anyone should "get better" at a video game they're not enjoying.

Edited April 20, 2012 by hairlessOrphan

[Khoraji]

Sounds reasonable to me. There are better things to get better at in life than SWToR. For most people, anyway.

 

lol ok... then why did you buy it in the first place? Get off the forums and go live your life.

[hairlessOrphan]

lol ok... then why did you buy it in the first place? Get off the forums and go live your life.

 

I would guess because he was expecting to enjoy the game. Call me crazy!

[Khoraji]

Sounds reasonable to me. There are better things to get better at in life than SWToR. For most people, anyway.

 

EDIT for clarify: the point I'm trying to make is this: present an argument for why he or anyone should "get better" at a video game they're not enjoying.

 

You seem to be saying you are not enjoying the game because you are not good. If you got better, you would be enjoying it more.

 

Why would anyone post on the forums of a game that they are not enjoying?

[Khoraji]

I would guess because he was expecting to enjoy the game. Call me crazy!

 

He said he is quitting because he is not good. I told him to get better and he would enjoy it. He doesn't want to do that so thats OK.

 

Candyland seems to be more his speed.

[hairlessOrphan]

You seem to be saying you are not enjoying the game because you are not good. If you got better, you would be enjoying it more.

 

Why would anyone post on the forums of a game that they are not enjoying?

 

Actually, I did fine with my Sage post 1.2. It just wasn't very much fun.

 

I re-rolled PT Pyro. GG!

 

I would posit that people post on forums of a game that they are not enjoying because they want to enjoy it, or have enjoyed it previously and wish to enjoy it again later. I would also posit that "enjoyment" is independent of "get good." What do you think, is it possible that being good at something doesn't make it fun? We can settle this debate with the power of science. Try getting really good at *************** and see if it's more fun?

[Khoraji]

Actually, I did fine with my Sage post 1.2. It just wasn't very much fun.

 

I re-rolled PT Pyro. GG!

 

I would posit that people post on forums of a game that they are not enjoying because they want to enjoy it, or have enjoyed it previously and wish to enjoy it again later. I would also posit that "enjoyment" is independent of "get good." What do you think, is it possible that being good at something doesn't make it fun? We can settle this debate with the power of science. Try getting really good at *************** and see if it's more fun?

 

I wasn't even talking to you and you jumped in, Sorry I thought you were in the same boat as him. If you did fine as a sage healer in 1.2, sounds like your just bored of the game. What changed that is making it not fun...when previously it was?

 

EDIT: I am a merc healer so sorry if I dont know what all the sorc nerfs did to you. Did it make it really change your class that much? My class was nerfed as well and I am having a ball still.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Khoraji

[Kevann]

To tell the truth, i am deeply torn on this point. As an introduction, i play a scoundrel healer and i normaly enjoy playing PvP.

As the opening post said, TOR was, and to some point, is different form other MMOs when it comes to PvP. I started back in the days with DAoC, and especially pre 1.2 TOR reminded me of those days. It was rewarding players, especially tanks and healers, that could and would think about how the game works, what was important and it strongly supported teamplay. With 1.2 there came several changes, and while i think, that most of these changes were needed, for me it is the combination of these, let's call it efforts, that make playing a healer no more fun.

I noticed three major changes that came with the recent patch: first of the overall damage output was increased, second most healers underwent major changes and the healing output was reduced. Third, the idea of hybrid specs was more or less completly removed from the game.

I want to start with the third point, Hybrid specs. Something that has no real impact on the current situation, but shows on how narrowminded the 1.2PvP has become. As a Scoundrel/Ops you could deal decent damage, do some healing, never en par with pure dmg/heal specs, but most important you could go and try things on your own or with a partner: e.g. planting a bomb in an Voidstar, capturing turrets in an Civil War. It felt like 1,5 dmg dealer and 0,5 healer, and that gave you the edge in most 2vs2 or so. Bioware obviously didn't want to have such things, so they "fixed" it. Fine by me, although i prefere games that challenge you, but most people disagree on that.

The other two points, dmg increase and healingoutput decrease work now in combination and that is, where the problems for healers beginn. I agree, it was hard to kill a healer pre 1.2, especially hard when he was guarded and geared. So it was right to increase the dmg output of dps classes, so that it doesn't take ages to kill a healer with guard. OR it was right to decrease the healing output healers do, so that a healer can't keep himself and others alive while being beaten with lightsabers. BUT the combination of both aspects, and my bet is, that bioware never really tested the effects, makes healing very frustrating. There are games where i spend more time in the starting box, then actually participating in the game. And while i can understand the frustration a dps class feels, when they have to beat some target for ages and the victim still does not die, they at least can "play" the game not just wait and watch. Most people say "learn to play, it is a team effort now"! Right you are, it is. But why are dmgdealers allowed to have fun playing the game on their own, while healers have to wait for someone with a teamoriented gameplay in mind to enjoy TOR? If i team up with a tank and a dmg dealer, playing is totaly different for me, i get protection, i get someone peeling nasty meeles of me and so on. It feels a bit like pre 1.2, just people still die faster. But once you play on your own, as a healer you are screwed. And that is probably the most frustrating thing and the reason why healers are uspet. But as long as you didn't enjoy the view of the other side, this fact is probably hard to understand.

 

Your words are the Holy Bible for me, I have never found so agree with someone opinion.

[hairlessOrphan]

I wasn't even talking to you and you jumped in, Sorry I thought you were in the same boat as him. If you did fine as a sage healer in 1.2, sounds like your just bored of the game. What changed that is making it not fun...when previously it was?

 

I'm not defending him, really. I'm not even attacking you (notice: no insults). I'm just saying your rush to judgment is kind of whack. Get over yourself, nahmean?

 

As far as what changed, it's covered in this thread. I'm not bored of the game, I'm bored of healing. "Be good" is relative to the ceiling of the class, not some objective marker of performance. Pumping out max heals and watching people fall over in three or four GCD's anyway makes you feel like you're being carried as a healer. I'm a Sage, I don't get to drop preventative HoTs and then go have fun doing stuff. All I get is 2s and 3s cast heals (2s and 2.5s talented har har). Used to be that was fun because casting those heals would prop a guy up and hold an objective. Also, juggling the HoT to proc Conveyance for 2s and 1.5s cast heals was fun. Now I'm just a speed bump.

 

The shorter TTK is designed for DPS lawls. And that's important, I get it. Most people play DPS. So I do what the game asks me to. PT's are fun. I derped my way through my first WZ as a DPS last night and landed 13 medals. I had to work for 7 or 8 on my Sage. Imagine if I knew *** I was doing as a DPS!

Edited April 20, 2012 by hairlessOrphan

[Thourton]

If i team up with a tank and a dmg dealer, playing is totally different for me, i get protection, i get someone peeling nasty meeles off me and so on. It feels a bit like pre 1.2, just people still die faster.

 

But once you play on your own, as a healer you are screwed. And that is probably the most frustrating thing and the reason why healers are upset.

 

This is a great summation of the healer's perspective.

 

I do think that DPS output needs to come down just a bit, but at the same time I recognize that healers can still be premiere classes in the right situation. When I run with my guild's PvP group, my favorite setup is when our Sorc and I heal (Sorc+Op). We put out huge numbers and cover each other's deficiencies.

 

Just as I get frustrated when DPS tears through me, I'm sure DPS gets crazy frustrated when our Sorc and Op just spam heal our entire group to full health the entire fight.

 

My concern with all of that, though, is why does a healer require a coordinated group to be highly effective when DPS can do it solo (again, to echo Sheikshufti).

[ProfessorWalsh]

A healer could be killed prior to 1.2 by a single DPS who knew what they were doing or if they made a mistake. A healer could be neutralized or at least heavily pressured by a single DPS in most cases, it was already balanced. The problem is the very people now screaming "learn to adapt and play better" chose not to do so and instead flocked to the forums.

 

That isn't balance.

 

"Could neutralize or at least heavily pressure."

 

I don't play a class that has only one option (Deal damage, no stances, no secondary specs, almost no CC, very little utility) for a play style to "heavily pressure" a class.

 

And it wasn't heavily pressure either.

 

The healer would kill me if I wasn't a Watchmen spec. WOULD KILL ME. Because all they had to do was eventually whittle my health away and they would win. You act like once a DPS got on a healer all they could do was heal themselves and that wasn't the case. They could mez us, they could stun us, they could knock us back, they could deal damage to us, they could root us, they had all kinds of things that they could do.

 

We don't.