Chevee Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) I don't know why everyone is so upset...Yes, we got nerfed HARD, but once you get used to the changes they're not bad....No you can't live with 3+ guys on you in a warzone anymore...You have to watch your heat. It's actually nice that I have to pay attention and manage my heat... I did a bunch of warzones yesterday...I struggled at first, but once I got it under control I had no problems...I died a lot easier, but that's good. It's so annoying to be in warzones and have healers NEVER die...if they have a healing buddy well you're basically screwed until that healer screws up and you get your chance to kill them. I ran EC 16 man last night we had two BH healers, a Sorc and an Op...we did absolutely fine on healing. Give it time and practice...It's not bad! Edited April 13, 2012 by Chevee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jskidz Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 It's not the Kolto Shell thats overheating us. It's not the 8 heat dissipation from Supercharged Gas. It's not the Cure heat change. The number one thing that has changed the way we heal is the Critical Efficieny change. It makes our HS -> RS combo too painful to cast. I can take all the other heat nerfs if we get Critical Efficiency restored back to 16 heat reduction instead of 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codek Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 It's not the Kolto Shell thats overheating us. It's not the 8 heat dissipation from Supercharged Gas. It's not the Cure heat change. The number one thing that has changed the way we heal is the Critical Efficieny change. It makes our HS -> RS combo too painful to cast. I can take all the other heat nerfs if we get Critical Efficiency restored back to 16 heat reduction instead of 8. I 100% agree with this. That nerf alone is what brings to question if popping the gas is even worth it any more. The rotation used when overcharged gas is up now must match the rotation when no gas is used (give or take maybe two additional heals). I'm still experimenting with the changes but the fun variation in rotation that was used in the past seems to no longer exist. Any deviations for what can keep you under the 40 heat level will have dire consequences in both the short and long run. But it's still early on and I have yet to find time to do out all the math so I have hope that there will be still be gains from the 8 heat reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBathory Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 It can't be as bad as the nerfs the Sorcs got, but then again I never got a chance to play a Merc yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfomo Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 First off if you were able to survive getting taken by 3 in pvp that means the 3 pvpers where not even mediocre it isn't hard to perform stuns and cc's on a merc healer nor is it even that hard to interrupt. Second there is now not a single class in full bm the bh merc healer can actually take on 1v1.... Any one who would tell you otherwise is lying through their teeth and doesn't actually play a true merc. healer. Second there is no way in hell you got through EC HM with two bh healers especially on the first boss where they switch. You were probably doing story all the raid groups on my server refused to use two BH healers with the point " they are only good now for healing the single tank no one else don't need 2" All this patch did was switch from having 1 sorc healer in raids to now having 2 or 3. I'm full Rakata and have been for a long time. You cannot heal more then 1 target if your doing a raid now period or you will over-heat. You cannot heal yourself or you will over-heat so the ops healers make up for even the bh merc healer on himself. You cannot use Kolto shell or you would be wasting heals and lowering your over-all healing actually. Why they nerfed that is beyond me it doesnt heal very much it heals when the target is hit by maybe 300-400 health.... in a raid that is just a small cushion to make up for maybe a small mistake that's not going to save anything so why they nerfed that is ****. The kolto missile though is now going to be used more often for its kolto residue is almost just as bad to use because of the new heat. First off it may if it crits and you have a group of 3-4 guys standing near eachother maybe 1.4 or 1.5 which isn't all the time on average it hits for about 700-900 without crit. Any one whose saying their doiing all right and happy with the MERC heals doesnt play a merc or either is having no affect on pvp or pve and running around scared just trying to dps rather then being seen as a healer. I never saw bh mercs or ops doing 400-500k heals in pvp or pve with even full gear and no dps and constently healer but you can still see a sorc or a jedi heal for 500k-750k so don't tell me bh merc needed nerf it was fine unbroken maybe needed a small tweek by adding maybe some heat to a few moves but nothing more then maybe a sum because we were not over powered the dps's is what people where seeing yet they nerfed the heals. Any Raid taking a bh heal now is because of sympathy or buddy bud why take a broken class when you can ensure better heals from 2 other types of heals.... think competitively and you won't see bh's wanted only for their dps and tanks. Talk to the bh mercs they still don't even know if they want to go all power or all crit just to try and get some healing done on a single target that is sad... why would any one roll a bh merc healer now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevee Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Sorcs aren't that bad for healing either! I have a 50 Sorc healer and had no problems in the warzones...I haven't tried her in an operation yet though. It does suck not having an easy way to get force back.. Everything will play out. Like any mmo. Change can be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegr Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 First off if you were able to survive getting taken by 3 in pvp that means the 3 pvpers where not even mediocre it isn't hard to perform stuns and cc's on a merc healer nor is it even that hard to interrupt. Second there is now not a single class in full bm the bh merc healer can actually take on 1v1.... Any one who would tell you otherwise is lying through their teeth and doesn't actually play a true merc. healer. Second there is no way in hell you got through EC HM with two bh healers especially on the first boss where they switch. You were probably doing story all the raid groups on my server refused to use two BH healers with the point " they are only good now for healing the single tank no one else don't need 2" All this patch did was switch from having 1 sorc healer in raids to now having 2 or 3. I'm full Rakata and have been for a long time. You cannot heal more then 1 target if your doing a raid now period or you will over-heat. You cannot heal yourself or you will over-heat so the ops healers make up for even the bh merc healer on himself. You cannot use Kolto shell or you would be wasting heals and lowering your over-all healing actually. Why they nerfed that is beyond me it doesnt heal very much it heals when the target is hit by maybe 300-400 health.... in a raid that is just a small cushion to make up for maybe a small mistake that's not going to save anything so why they nerfed that is ****. The kolto missile though is now going to be used more often for its kolto residue is almost just as bad to use because of the new heat. First off it may if it crits and you have a group of 3-4 guys standing near eachother maybe 1.4 or 1.5 which isn't all the time on average it hits for about 700-900 without crit. Any one whose saying their doiing all right and happy with the MERC heals doesnt play a merc or either is having no affect on pvp or pve and running around scared just trying to dps rather then being seen as a healer. I never saw bh mercs or ops doing 400-500k heals in pvp or pve with even full gear and no dps and constently healer but you can still see a sorc or a jedi heal for 500k-750k so don't tell me bh merc needed nerf it was fine unbroken maybe needed a small tweek by adding maybe some heat to a few moves but nothing more then maybe a sum because we were not over powered the dps's is what people where seeing yet they nerfed the heals. Any Raid taking a bh heal now is because of sympathy or buddy bud why take a broken class when you can ensure better heals from 2 other types of heals.... think competitively and you won't see bh's wanted only for their dps and tanks. Talk to the bh mercs they still don't even know if they want to go all power or all crit just to try and get some healing done on a single target that is sad... why would any one roll a bh merc healer now... This just saved me a lot of typing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfomo Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Changes should be good but these changes weren't thought through this patch nerf is equivalent to the nerf wow did on Druids in which they later ended up recalling the nerf and taking it out because they destroyed the class. Everything about the patch is nice except the extreme class kill. Why didn't they just delete the bodyguard tree and put in a tank tree or atleast let me spec to tank since basically heals is gone. Scour the forums and you see over 200 posts about the genocide done to bh heals if it was just a small issue you wouldn't get a huge rage just small whining like it was before 1.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevee Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Any one whose saying their doiing all right and happy with the MERC heals doesnt play a merc or either is having no affect on pvp or pve and running around scared just trying to dps rather then being seen as a healer. I never saw bh mercs or ops doing 400-500k heals in pvp or pve with even full gear and no dps and constently healer but you can still see a sorc or a jedi heal for 500k-750k so don't tell me bh merc needed nerf it was fine unbroken maybe needed a small tweek by adding maybe some heat to a few moves but nothing more then maybe a sum because we were not over powered the dps's is what people where seeing yet they nerfed the heals. Any Raid taking a bh heal now is because of sympathy or buddy bud why take a broken class when you can ensure better heals from 2 other types of heals.... think competitively and you won't see bh's wanted only for their dps and tanks. Talk to the bh mercs they still don't even know if they want to go all power or all crit just to try and get some healing done on a single target that is sad... why would any one roll a bh merc healer now... http://oi40.tinypic.com/w215sm.jpg Almost 500k in a Huttball yesterday...You must see some BAD healers.... Edited April 13, 2012 by Chevee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valindra Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Sorcs aren't that bad for healing either! I have a 50 Sorc healer and had no problems in the warzones...I haven't tried her in an operation yet though. It does suck not having an easy way to get force back.. Everything will play out. Like any mmo. Change can be good. I ran with a very good Sorc healer in my raid last night, he was having 0 issues. Just did a slight /whine at the changes, but overall didn't have a mass effect. Edited April 13, 2012 by Valindra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valindra Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 http://oi40.tinypic.com/w215sm.jpg Almost 500k in a Huttball yesterday...You must see some BAD healers.... I can do awesome in PVP on healing, and quite crap, depending on the game, how many other healers were on my team, etc. There are TONS of variables. Linking ONE Screen shot of ONE game, prove little to nothing. Thats like me linking only 1 dps meter ever, and saying that I'm pro. But you really have no backing consistent proof. I don't even think there is an issue in PVP from BH MERCS. I played tons of games yesterday and did just fine, granted, It was a little tougher, and I sure died a lot more, but overall, not nearly the hit I took while in my EC group where I was struggling to keep my raid afloat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevee Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I wasn't posting that to say look it's fine...I was posting because he said he'd NEVER seen a BH do that much healing, however I'll continue to post more shots to prove my point if that's what's needed. -.- Seriously operations and pvp are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTray Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I wasn't posting that to say look it's fine...I was posting because he said he'd NEVER seen a BH do that much healing, however I'll continue to post more shots to prove my point if that's what's needed. -.- Seriously operations and pvp are fine. Please stop trolling with your falsified screenshots from a game where someone was sitting in the fire and or uninterruptedly healing all game. It's not realistic and it's not a valid argument. It's called anecdotal evidence at best. At worst, you're intentionally trying to deceive people. Doesn't matter which it is, just shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfomo Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Nah Chevee just not rolling noob opponents look at the stats of your opponents in that game they were like ants to the fodder... Though I'm sure you are a great healer your opponents were not much from the stats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatuajh Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The real issue here is the contrasting damage that Jedi's and Marauders are doing in relation to the amount of healing that can be done. The recent changes to our class as a healer has eliminated any viability of this class as a strong PVP heler. On top of this our survivability is anemic, often spending most of our time trying to keep ourselves alive through insane amounts of damage, often times being 3-4 shot. Don't have the armor, HP or abilities to survive and keep team mates up. Time to look for a new game to play IMO. GW2 here I come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfomo Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Also just a quick check how do you get 553 kills overall with only 122 deaths in the entire game from what that screen shot shows mathematically....Unless they were constantly having people keep dropping from the game at a huge rate which would prove how much easier that game would be at stacking up on... If it were a decent even match I doubt you'd be able to hit that same bench mark playing normally under the new nerf you'd be running around overheating with melted guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevee Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Kills are shared...Not every kill is an individual kill on the score board. Also, if the opponents were bad there wouldn't be anything to heal clearly. a) opponents were good, and b) My team was protecting its healer i.e, teamwork... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfomo Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Yeah so you were rolling them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTCK Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Pyrotech is probably the only spec that isnt effected by the "heat" patch---the rest of us are walking targets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tepy Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Also just a quick check how do you get 553 kills overall with only 122 deaths in the entire game from what that screen shot shows mathematically....Unless they were constantly having people keep dropping from the game at a huge rate which would prove how much easier that game would be at stacking up on... If it were a decent even match I doubt you'd be able to hit that same bench mark playing normally under the new nerf you'd be running around overheating with melted guns. you must never pvp if you don't know how to read the board... On another note. As I was running dailies yesterday I kept thinking I felt very, very weak. Most of the problem does indeed come from the critical efficiency change and this one change alone was enough to drastically change the way bh/comm heals worked. I've been trying to work out how I'm going to heal hm EC when I have to take so much of my time and rotation spent rapid shotting and I'm not sure there is a way to go through a fight without having to rapid shot twice in a row. during that time, there is a very long window where my tank I'm healing is very likely to get killed. In short, the new heat constraints are extremely limiting to sustained HPS, and more importantly, make us INCAPABLE of having to deal with periods of intense incoming damage, where we before held a very nice niche. In theory, the change to kolto shell makes some sense, since the full duration of the ability heals a minimum of 4k with 10 charges healing for 400ish and capable of critting. that healing is more than a single healing scan which was 16heat, so I think the 16 was a decent number for them to pick for it. The big problem with making it 16 heat, however, is that now there is no room in my rotation for using it! there are very, very limited situations where I'd be putting on a HoT that will heal for 4k over 30 seconds rather than casting a healing scan and getting 2.5 noncrit right away. I've now moved kolto shell off my main bar where it stood at 5 before and now place it way the hell up on my "useful but rarely used bar" with a ctrl+5 hotkey. A very simple way they could have given the good with the bad is to add the notion of "heat neutrality" to alacrity as RuQu mentioned in a couple of his posts, where regen increases along with alacrity to where a cast of a few heals leaves us at the same heat regardless of the amount of alacrity. Just a thought. All in all I'm disappointed with the changes, but I'll still be sticking with it and trying to make it work. Lets face it, the only way to go from here is up! Edited April 13, 2012 by Tepy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheonetheonlyTB Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 My main is a BH merc, and although I do notice a difference under pressure, depending on skill of other healer in the raid, I still think mercs are very healing viable. It is really just effectively using a few shots and using cds like the free emergency scan and supercharged gas smartly to let your heat go down. I was healing EC just fine, only wiping when dps took way too much unnecessary damage, i.e berserk, **** on ground, etc.(and our sorc healer was not the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfomo Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 One thing that really irritates me is all the testers warned them in the testing about the healing nerf. Why have testers if your never going to take into consideration their results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tepy Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 My main is a BH merc, and although I do notice a difference under pressure, depending on skill of other healer in the raid, I still think mercs are very healing viable. It is really just effectively using a few shots and using cds like the free emergency scan and supercharged gas smartly to let your heat go down. I was healing EC just fine, only wiping when dps took way too much unnecessary damage, i.e berserk, **** on ground, etc.(and our sorc healer was not the best I'm not concerned about being effective, I think there are many ways for bh heals to still be effective during a raid situation, but as many others have mentioned, compared to sorc healing, there really is no situation where we now come out on top. there is effectively no reason to bring a BH healer instead of a sorc now in any situation I can think of, assuming both players have the same skill. For now we're resigned to take a back seat like poor IA's did til this patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dardack Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 One thing that really irritates me is all the testers warned them in the testing about the healing nerf. Why have testers if your never going to take into consideration their results. Most healers were nerfed. I know my sorc healing friends were also complaing yesterday. Only class that seems to be better off for healing is OPs now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tepy Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 One thing that really irritates me is all the testers warned them in the testing about the healing nerf. Why have testers if your never going to take into consideration their results. I understand what they were thinking. They were probably thinking that these players are used to the old overpowered healing and that a simple change in rotation to add in more rapid shots would probably a bit inconvenient, but not an entire remake of the way merc healing does business. In short, they were optimistic about the change like I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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