Ravage

[yningunay]

I think the same.

 

Yep.

 

I think they should tie Masterstrike / Ravage being uninterruptable to Chien-, Shi-Cho- and Ataru-Form

[DotFreelance]

No, you know what's OP?

 

In World of Warcraft, there's an ability called Ravage and it's constantly linked immediately after a typed in "Anal."

 

The mind-numbing loathing one feels as a result is OP.

 

LET US FOCUS.

[Dracosz]

Ravage's damage is not overpowered by any stretch of the imagination that being said, the fact that it's not interruptable is completely asinine and removes a huge element of positioning and timing that the ability used to take.

[RaugMoss]

Ok. Lets assume we approach a Sith Inquisitor midfight where they already blew their defensive CDs:

 

; means happens in 1 gcd > means happens next gcd

 

Leap ; Overload Saber > Zealous Strike > Cauterize >> Masterstrike ; Merciless Slash

 

Assuming the last hit of Masterstrike and Merciless Slash crit thats min 3.5k dmg each + offhand.

So thats from the beginning of Masterstrike 2 x 1200 dot, 2x 500 dot, 1200 first hit MS, 2100 2nd hit MS, 3500 3rd hit MS, 3500 Merc Slash.

Thats 13.6k DMG for the duration of Masterstrike when I get crits on Merc Slash and the Final Hit.

If my timing and positioning is correct my target has zero chance of escaping this. Seems OP to me.

 

Oh and don´t tell me BS. I do it every warzone against fully geared opponents (Sentinel with both WH weapons and 4 armor pieces). I can 80% => 0% Sages / Inquis in 3 seconds. Thats just stupid. Classes should not have to keep at least 1 def CD to avoid an instakill. Same **** as Operatives stunlocking people to death.

 

Edit: I do not think ravage / ms is op for the carnage / combat spec. The spec is just not on par with anni / watchman and the dmg absurdly easy to avoid.

 

You sir, are a good example of a pvper that welcomes challenge, and in no way refrains from admitting that your class is overpowered. As a half war hero geared sorcerer, with the amount of war hero geared juggernauts, marauders rising in population, I am frankly tired of burning all I have just to survive or have a close 1v1 fight to kill or be killed in 15 to 20 seconds. And if I survive that, I'm very ineffective in team-pvp aspects for another 30 seconds to 1 min. Plus, ONE, only ONE snare from an opposing teammate while I kite can mean that I'm dead while the same isn't true for the OP opponent class. Marauder burst is just insane and juggernauts are just un-kiteable with their spammable chilling scream, 1-2 gap closers or unstoppable buff. Ravage on top of these merits make it incredibly easy for them to kill people. And the problem isn't the third tick, the first two hits in 1.5 seconds and is more than enough to screw you.

 

Take this man as an example, warriors are OP, and while you may have fun by tearing down opponents in under 15 seconds without your cooldowns, some classes certainly aren't having fun with a time-to-kill around 20-25 seconds without their adrenal/trinket/cooldowns. After a certain point, you'll seldom see those classes around because everyone is rerolling to play an OP or more balanced class (because a nerf is incoming and we know it). Furthermore, getting battlemaster gear takes only 3 days now, why play the severely underpowered class 60 days to get full War Hero set?

 

Rerolling statistics will on its own direct Bioware's attention to your OPness, I hope.

[yningunay]

Not saying you are wrong, but in group pvp and especially during midfight it all comes down to player's individual skill.

When it is up to player's skill, simple attacks can be OP and attacks like masterstrike/ravage can do nothing. Imo if you can counter an attack/rotation then I don't see how it is OP. I mean if i just stand there and do nothing, sorc lightning can kill me, is it overpowered? Does it mean that I have to save my cooldowns so that I can stay alive?

 

You´re right there.

But imho the ability to do over 12k dmg in what feels like 2 globalcooldowns (3 seconds) just by chaining 4 abilities, is a bit over the top.

 

 

"Ofc most people are bad in this game. But the just melt in front of me and it does not feel satisfying when they never stood a chance.

Every time i play the class i get the feeling that my possibilities are sheer endless and players with worse classes just HAVE to outnumber me 2 or 3 to one just to stop a single player of the opposing team."

 

" " Is just a conclusion of my PERSONAL feelings when playing my Sentinel.

Edited May 8, 2012 by yningunay

[Karkais]

Thats why i said: Its BULLS**T people have to keep 1 def cooldown just to not get killed by a marauder.

 

Saving a cooldown for when you need it is fine in my opinion.

 

And for the umpteenth time since there seems to be lots of noobs spouting random words in this thread:

1.) you cannot interrupt ravage/master strike with attacks that are classified as interrupt, however you CAN interrupt it with a stun or a knockback. For example, sorcerer cannot interrupt it with Jolt, but he CAN interrupt it with electrocute or overload.

2.) there are other ways to neutralize it as well, something like obfuscate completely nullifies ravage.

3.) Those claiming you can counter it by moving thru the marauder to their backside are wrong. If its started, it wont stop that way. Plus like said, carnage marauder and combat sentinel can spec it so it roots for the duration.

 

In my opinion ravage/master strike is fine, it has plenty of weak points, and Im sure devs intended it to be a strong attack that forces people to play around it.

 

Adapt, or be ravaged.

[romoragan]

You´re right there.

But imho the ability to do over 12k dmg in what feels like 2 globalcooldowns (3 seconds) just by chaining 4 abilities, is a bit over the top.

 

Ofc most people are bad in this game. But the just melt in front of me and it does not feel satisfying when they never stood a chance.

Every time i play the class i get the feeling that my possibilities are sheer endless and players with worse classes just HAVE to outnumber me 2 or 3 to one just to stop a single player of the opposing team.

 

There are a lot of bads in pvp. It's your money and you have every right to say that something is satisfying or not, but don't say that certain ability/class is overpowered because other people aren't just quite at your level. If you want challenge in pvp, roll a new class or I for example pvp naked. It is however Bioware's fault for not getting rated WZs out on time.

[hyuplee]

A Little word of advice:

 

if you want something nerfed real bad, calling the skill OP, claiming a massive amount of damage, creating multiple thread of the same topic and calling other players name are just not going to cut it. The only thing that may contribute to a nerf is not how many people are crying - It's the proof.

 

How do I know this?

 

A while ago there were several forum post containing screenshots showing heatsink missile doing a wooping 9k crit on players with bm gears. Discussion ensued. And what do you know, within 2 patches the skill is tweaked and they now rarely do as much damage as before. If you want this to happen to Ravage, get those screenshots. If you don't have any screenshots of getting hit 10k + by ravage, continue to cry about it isn't going to help.

 

And stop with those "Ravage is OP and you know it" post.

I don't know it. Show me the proof and enlighten me.

 

Honestly, if the developers are going to change things base on people's whining, marauder would've been nerfed to the grounds by now. These types of discussion serves no purpose without screenshots imo and it is something the forum can really do without.

Edited May 8, 2012 by hyuplee

[hyuplee]

You´re right there.

But imho the ability to do over 12k dmg in what feels like 2 globalcooldowns (3 seconds) just by chaining 4 abilities, is a bit over the top.

 

 

"Ofc most people are bad in this game. But the just melt in front of me and it does not feel satisfying when they never stood a chance.

Every time i play the class i get the feeling that my possibilities are sheer endless and players with worse classes just HAVE to outnumber me 2 or 3 to one just to stop a single player of the opposing team."

 

" " Is just a conclusion of my PERSONAL feelings when playing my Sentinel.

 

You have screenshots showing a 12k damage?

[Ahebish]

With the 100% armor bypass... you still couldn't come close to 10k with Ravage alone.

 

Maybe with original 1.0 buff stacking and perfect itemization you could get within like 3k of that...

 

But alas, you can't do that anymore. Nice false info though.

 

While my ravage does not do 10k damage,

 

My smash + Ravage does 10k damage.

 

And yet my operative is the one who got nerf'd go figure?

[romoragan]

You have screenshots showing a 12k damage?

 

He/she means that rotation does 12k damage not single hit, or full ravage/masterstrike cast.

[Sabredance]

If you don't have any screenshots of getting hit 10k + by ravage, continue to cry about it isn't going to help.

 

And stop with those "Ravage is OP and you know it" post.

I don't know it. Show me the proof and enlighten me.

 

I posted a screenshot earlier on.

But i still think Ravage is not the problem here.

We have to look at the bigger picture.

[hyuplee]

I posted a screenshot earlier on.

But i still think Ravage is not the problem here.

We have to look at the bigger picture.

 

Do you mind linking me to the place where you posted the screenshots?

[hyuplee]

He/she means that rotation does 12k damage not single hit, or full ravage/masterstrike cast.

 

Doing 12k damage through a rotation is only possible when the target is stunned/unguarded/undefended. Ravage has a 3 second cast time which root the caster to the ground as well, and a single cc will prevent it from doing the biggest damage.

[Sabredance]

Do you mind linking me to the place where you posted the screenshots?

 

Page 7.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=404121&page=7

 

But as i said.I still think Ravage being the problem is put out of context.

As a Vigilance Guardian it feels exactly at the right spot now.

It was crap before the changes.

Personally i think the insane burst window is all right for Sents -their Survivability is not.

But that has been discussed in abundance elsewehere.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Sabredance

[alcek]

On a mara/sent ravage is too much, because these classes outperform atm. On a guardian/jugg master strike is kind of okish, imho.

[hyuplee]

Page 7.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=404121&page=7

 

But as i said.I still think Ravage being the problem is put out of context.

As a Vigilance Guardian it feels exactly at the right spot now.

It was crap before the changes.

Personally i think the insane burst window is all right for Sents -their Survivability is not.

But that has been discussed in abundance elsewehere.

 

The person that is getting hit with a 7k ravage either has his defensive CD down or is terribly geared. I will provide screenshot where my ravage does little more than 6 k in 3 tick against geared people unguarded, even less when they have their defensive CD up.

 

As for mara survivability I'm not going to comment as that is irrelevant to the post.

But thanks for the screenshot. If you can find more screenshot showing ravage doing consistently massive amount of damage that renders the play experience agnostic, the dev will patch it for certain.

[Sabredance]

The person that is getting hit with a 7k ravage either has his defensive CD down or is terribly geared. I will provide screenshot where my ravage does little more than 6 k in 3 tick against geared people unguarded, even less when they have their defensive CD up.

.

 

You are correct.

 

His statement:

Correct. I am Combat (Carnage). It was the last tick of Master Strike (Ravage).

 

I killed the person shortly before this hit and noticed how squishy they were, and wondered if I could set a new personal record. I sought him out as he respawned and stacked up everything I had. Grabbed the expertise pack (I would have popped a consumable one though if it wasn't up), hit Valorous (Frenzy) + Inspiration (Bloodthirst), Relic, Precision Slash (Gore) for 100% Armor Penetration, and Master Strike (Ravage). This is a lot of building up that rarey ever happens, and is easily interruptable at any point. Using a Blade Storm (Force Scream) instead could have brought similar numbers as well though, but I typically follow that right after the Master Strike (Ravage) and it will still benefit from everything else including the Armor Penetration, since the GCD is already back up. It's a brutal burst.

[Vales]

The person that is getting hit with a 7k ravage either has his defensive CD down or is terribly geared. I will provide screenshot where my ravage does little more than 6 k in 3 tick against geared people unguarded, even less when they have their defensive CD up.

 

As for mara survivability I'm not going to comment as that is irrelevant to the post.

But thanks for the screenshot. If you can find more screenshot showing ravage doing consistently massive amount of damage that renders the play experience agnostic, the dev will patch it for certain.

 

So where are my 7.5k crits on undergeared players as TK Sorc?

[hyuplee]

On a mara/sent ravage is too much, because these classes outperform atm. On a guardian/jugg master strike is kind of okish, imho.

 

It is never okay to think one skill is okay on one class but overpowered in another.

Now I will elaborate as to why I believe this.

 

The ability to increase the damage that ravage deals in on a shared tree between Jugg and Mara.

Mara only gets an rootable ravage when you spec carnage and it is the same with the armor penetration.

Now, the biggest hitters on carnage tree are force scream and ravage. When one cc is enough to render ravage useless, carnage mara only has force scream to fall back on for another a minute or two.

 

if you are Anni speced, there literally isn't a single factor that differentiate the ravage on Mara and the ravage on Jugg. While two weapons will contribute to a slightly higher damage outpost, they can both be countered/reduced in damage. One simply has to walk away quickly or cc or stun. (since none of them roots)

 

Therefore it is my belief that if people are having problems with ravage, they are most likely facing a carnage mara. But then, is it really prudent to believe one skill is overpowered when only one build can spec it to become considerably better, and said build is entirely dependent upon Ravage?

[hyuplee]

So where are my 7.5k crits on undergeared players as TK Sorc?

 

Where is my lighting spam that ticks for 1.5k per second? I will happy trade my ravage for a lighting spam any day.

 

Regardless, this is not a thread for "How come I don't have this for my class". This is a thread for ravage. Therefore I am not going to answer that question. If you are having problems doing damage on your sorc as a whole, feel free to start another thread.

[Vales]

Where is my lighting spam that ticks for 1.5k per second? I will happy trade my ravage for a lighting spam any day.

 

Regardless, this is not a thread for "How come I don't have this for my class". This is a thread for ravage. Therefore I am not going to answer that question. If you are having problems doing damage on your sorc as a whole, feel free to start another thread.

 

1.5k I loled hard.

TK Throw/Lightning ticks for 400-500 at best, 750-800 crits depending which armor type.

I know well how to do damage, just the class abilities are not sufficient to even get the 5k medal. You are lucky to break 3k crits on TK Wave or FiB even with adrenals and trinkets.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Vales

[hyuplee]

You are correct.

 

His statement:

 

I am curious now.

 

What is your opinion on carnage marauders, may I ask? Do you think a ravage that root people in place is a adequate tradeoff for missing out on Annihilate?

[hyuplee]

1.5k I loled hard.

TK Throw/Lightning ticks for 400-500 at best, 750-800 crits depending which armor type.

I know well how to do damage, just the class abilities are not sufficient to even get the 5k medal. You are lucky to break 3k crits on TK Wave or FiB even with adrenals and trinkets.

 

Give me 3 days and I will show you screenshots where a player in full BM or WH gears with adrenal + stim spam lightnings that ticks 1.5k consistently on players under-geared + no defensive CD.

 

Which is the situation currently being discussed.

 

Ravage is only possible to do a lot of damage in those situations. Against a good player, fully geared and defensive cd up you are lucky if the damage breaks 5k.

Edited May 8, 2012 by hyuplee

[Vales]

Give me 3 days and I will show you screenshots where a player in full BM or WH gears with adrenal + stim spam lightnings that ticks 1.5k consistently on players under-geared + no defensive CD.

 

GL with that.