LV50 Rage spec Question???

[Alloha]

ok so i'm leveling in Annihilation but I was thinking about switching to Rage at LV50 so I am just wanting to know if anyone has tried this spec and whats it like to play at LV50. I'm mostly going to be focusing on PVP but may also do some PVE

[CrazyAl]

ok so i'm leveling in Annihilation but I was thinking about switching to Rage at LV50 so I am just wanting to know if anyone has tried this spec and whats it like to play at LV50. I'm mostly going to be focusing on PVP but may also do some PVE

 

rage is a 1 trick pony

 

granted, its a really nice trick

 

but once people figure it out they can see it coming a mile away

 

 

btw, that 1 trick is your buffed smash

 

now, that doesnt mean its a bad spec, or that you shouldnt play it, its just a very simple spec so it can be predictable, but it can also perform very well if you know how to use it properly

[Shatterstar]

I enjoy rage, but it is a 1 trick pony for sure. But, if you can set it up, it hurts people, and quick. It isn't quite as good for fp's though, some fights just require CC, and that smash always reaches farther than you want at that point.

 

BTW, there is a million threads here comparing and detailing the specs, did you really need to start another?

Edited April 10, 2012 by Shatterstar

[PenoNation]

I like the "I am just wanting to know if anyone has tried this spec" part. Nope, nobody has tried the spec.

[Prolyfic]

smash is not an easy thing to avoid. you dont have to smash right after you force choke, the buff lasts long enough to use it 5 GCDs later (or even in the opening of the NEXT fight) and it happens so quick if you have any degree of strategy it's pretty easy to land. I can't even remember the last time I missed with it in pvp.

 

and it's funny how ppl reiterate its only one "trick", when the rage build has massive crit dmg boost in a day when surge is weaker by comparison.. +30% crit damage on all force abilities.. not "just" smash (or annis force scream and massacre crit boost).

 

hell as soon as I got savage kick (is it even a force ability? looks like it gets the buff) in PVE it was critting for damn near 2k at the late 30s for a move that costs no rage! ravage gets a 15% crit chance boost and becomes uninterruptible on top of the dmg (improved in 1.2?), and force scream! Oooo force scream.. it is critting so often.

 

Not to mention ALL force attacks don't only receive the crit dmg boost, but they also ALL receive a 3s CD reduction AND ignore 20% armor when relevant (bigger than ppl give credit for). For extra mobility we have the second 10m charge (obliterate), cheaper rage cost slows, and substantial runspeed buffs (40% every obliterate that's DOESNT consuming your fury charges) make it cake to catch and keep up with kiters... absolutely NO need for a ranged immob in this build..

 

stack crit and power gear is a maximum effect (even though you have the one smash autocrit, crit gear helps leverage that +30% crit damage on everything else)

 

Sure anni might have much greater sustained dmg over time with the dots, but I am of the opinion the burst lies solidly in the hands of crit-geared Rage, even when you take smash out of the equation.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Prolyfic

[PenoNation]

You're really suggesting stacking crit for Rage? Are you also wondering why other Rage spec'd Marauders do more damage than you?

[CrazyAl]

smash is not an easy thing to avoid. you dont have to smash right after you force choke, the buff lasts long enough to use it 5 GCDs later (or even in the opening of the NEXT fight) and it happens so quick if you have any degree of strategy it's pretty easy to land. I can't even remember the last time I missed with it in pvp.

 

and it's funny how ppl reiterate its only one "trick", when the rage build has massive crit dmg boost in a day when surge is weaker by comparison.. +30% crit damage on all force abilities.. not "just" smash (or annis force scream and massacre crit boost).

 

hell as soon as I got savage kick (is it even a force ability? looks like it gets the buff) in PVE it was critting for damn near 2k at the late 30s for a move that costs no rage! ravage gets a 15% crit chance boost and becomes uninterruptible on top of the dmg (improved in 1.2?), and force scream! Oooo force scream.. it is critting so often.

 

Not to mention ALL force attacks don't only receive the crit dmg boost, but they also ALL receive a 3s CD reduction AND ignore 20% armor when relevant (bigger than ppl give credit for). For extra mobility we have the second 10m charge (obliterate), cheaper rage cost slows, and substantial runspeed buffs (40% every obliterate that's DOESNT consuming your fury charges) make it cake to catch and keep up with kiters... absolutely NO need for a ranged immob in this build..

 

stack crit and power gear is a maximum effect (even though you have the one smash autocrit, crit gear helps leverage that +30% crit damage on everything else)

 

Sure anni might have much greater sustained dmg over time with the dots, but I am of the opinion the burst lies solidly in the hands of crit-geared Rage, even when you take smash out of the equation.

 

without smash what does rage have ...

 

force scream? its not that great for rage, yea it gets the 30% crit bonus same as it does with carnage, but thats not why it owns in carnage spec, it own in carnage spec because of gore, rage spec force scream isnt that great

 

ravage? nothing special there either without gore ... oh its uninterruptible, who cares, it still isnt very powerful for rage

 

what else does it have? nothing of note

 

so yea, without smash rage is garbage

 

which makes it a 1 trick pony

 

 

however, like i said, its a really good trick, rage is a fine spec and smash is a fine ability, and yes, it is hard to avoid getting smashed, but its still very predicable which makes it easy for a good player to mitigate smash damage

 

rage is good, but its predictability is a glaring weakness which can be difficult to overcome vs skilled opponents

 

its great for nub stomping though

[Prolyfic]

You're really suggesting stacking crit for Rage? Are you also wondering why other Rage spec'd Marauders do more damage than you?

 

haven't seen it happen yet so I'm not sure. Probably wont care.. because I don't go for dmg anyway, I go for kills with my marauder and for that I go for burst over sustained dmg or bleeds.

 

And sure stack power may be a more traditional school of thinking to maximize smash, but that school also includes the thought that rage is a one trick pony. Well yea, obviously it is if you stat toward smash and smash alone, then all you'll have to rely on is smash. Hmmm.....

 

but with the crit damage bonuses built in to the top of the tree, I prefer statting for crit AND power, all that power goes a LOT further on your non-smash abilities if you can actually crit regularly with them.

 

 

Yes, it suffers initially at 50 with the pvp tier change but what spec doesn't??

 

 

force scream? its not that great for rage, yea it gets the 30% crit bonus same as it does with carnage, but thats not why it owns in carnage spec, it own in carnage spec because of gore, rage spec force scream isnt that great

 

gore gives force scream +30% crit dmg, 100% armor pen for 6/15s (less than 50% uptime), and passive 3s CD reduction for 3x talent pts - great ability and nice talents

 

rage gives ALL force abilites +30% crit dmg, 20% armor pen (full uptime), +6% crit bonus, and passive 3s CD reduction for 7x talent pts.

 

For 4 pts more you're buffing everything almost as much as you're saying carnage owns for buffing Force Scream with. The only thing you're missing is the higher armor pen/bloodfrenzy proc but the fulltime coverage and extra 6% crit balances that out to me.

 

ravage? nothing special there either without gore ... oh its uninterruptible, who cares, it still isnt very powerful for rage

 

beside being interruptible, rage's ravage has +30% crit dmg, 20% armor pen, +6% crit chance, and a CD that is 6 seconds less than carnages ravage. Sure it still isnt very powerful for rage? Using the first two hits only, then interrupting it yourself, ravage is a killer DPS booster to put into your cycle.

 

its funny you call rage a one trick pony then say the reason carnage is better is because of multiple abilities that all rely on gore, a less than half uptime 6s buff of gore to make both force scream and ravage superior to rage's passively stat-buffed 100% uptime versions.

 

it's probably for the best that rage keep its reputation as a one trick pony.. as you say, predictability is a glaring weakness.. so is underestimating your opponent because you're convinced they are a one trick pony.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Prolyfic

[Spiderbubble]

Rage is a perfect spec for an ungeared level 50 PvP Marauder. You get good Armor Pen, you get good burst, good survivability, and some nice utility. As of right now (and this is subject to change on Thursday once 1.2 comes out), I don't recommend using it once you get some gear, since Annihilation is just too good.

[CrazyAl]

 

gore gives force scream +30% crit dmg, 100% armor pen for 6/15s (less than 50% uptime), and passive 3s CD reduction for 3x talent pts - great ability and nice talents

 

rage gives ALL force abilites +30% crit dmg, 20% armor pen (full uptime), +6% crit bonus, and passive 3s CD reduction for 7x talent pts.

 

For 4 pts more you're buffing everything almost as much as you're saying carnage owns for buffing Force Scream with. The only thing you're missing is the higher armor pen/bloodfrenzy proc but the fulltime coverage and extra 6% crit balances that out to me.

 

gore doesnt give +30% crit damage to force scream, sever does

 

ps. 100% armor pen for 6/15 seconds is better than 20% at all times

pps. the 6% crit bonus that rage gives to scream is nothing compared to the guaranteed crit that carnage gives scream

 

also, you arent buffing "everything" the 30% crit damage bonus and the 6% crit chance only apply to force attacks, and for rage that is smash, scream, choke and crush (and maybe oblit, cant remember)

 

it doesnt apply to VS, ravage, assault, battering assault, or your throws

 

 

beside being interruptible, rage's ravage has +30% crit dmg, 20% armor pen, +6% crit chance, and a CD that is 6 seconds less than carnages ravage. Sure it still isnt very powerful for rage? Using the first two hits only, then interrupting it yourself, ravage is a killer DPS booster to put into your cycle.

 

sorry, but malice (+6% crit chance) and dark resonance (+30% crit damage) dont apply to ravage, ravage is not a force attack

 

force/tech attack = yellow damage

melee/ranged attack = white damage

 

so yea, its not very powerful for rage, especially if you are intentionally not letting the last hit go off

 

its funny you call rage a one trick pony then say the reason carnage is better is because of multiple abilities that all rely on gore, a less than half uptime 6s buff of gore to make both force scream and ravage superior to rage's passively stat-buffed 100% uptime versions.

 

it's probably for the best that rage keep its reputation as a one trick pony.. as you say, predictability is a glaring weakness.. so is underestimating your opponent because you're convinced they are a one trick pony.

 

i didnt say that carnage isnt a 1 trick pony (but i will now, its not a 1 trick pony, its a 2 trick pony, gore + ravage + scream and berserk + massacre spam)

 

as mentioned before, ravage isnt buffed by rage, sure, scream is, but its buffed better by carnage, just because rage has an armor pen thats always up doesnt make it better than carnages 6s armor pen, you must consider the particular values ... 100% vs 20% ... the amount of armor pen more than makes up for the buff duration

 

if you use gore every time its off CD (which you should) you get 100% armor pen for 6 of every 15 seconds, which equates to an average persistent armor pen of 40%

 

and last i checked 40% is more than 20%

 

plus, its extremely rare that you will use scream w/o gore more than once per each scream with gore, so the armor pen of your biggest ability will average out to 50% per use (and youll never use ravage w/o gore so its getting much much better average armor pen than it does with rage)

 

 

i dont underestimate rage warriors, they are just flat out predicable, build up shockwave -> use smash ... they really have no other option to pose an actual threat with, so when they build shockwave you pop defenseive CDs, and mitigate their damage dealing potential

 

 

now, before you get your panties in a bunch, saying they are predicable is not saying they are bad

 

yes, you can see smash coming a mile away, and you can mitigate it ... IF your CDs are up, which isnt always the case, and rage can also pressure more than 1 target at a time and has great mobility

 

its a good spec, its just easier to neutralize it than it is carnage or, especially, annihilation because of its predicability