BenKatarn Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Pretty sure Kallig said at some point that his ability to manifest for the Inq was waning midway through the class story. It always made sense to me he couldn't appear at the end. He said this at the end of the first chapter, after you've beaten Zash; that he was "at peace" now that his heir at triumphed over their treacherous master and attained the rank of Sith Lord. Then, when you go to Darth Andru's tomb and fall right into Thanaton's trap, he shows up out of nowhere and tells you what an idiot you are. He then shows up again after you've bound Andru and tells you to show Thanaton "what a good student" you've been etc etc. It's then that he no longer shows up. There is no real finality to him. Had he not shown up after the end of the first chapter, it would've been fine, but his appearance in chapter two is kind of odd and suggests he's still around, yet he is completely dropped from the plot after this. He should either show up again later or the player should get the chance to absorb him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 or the player should get the chance to absorb him. This is one of my biggest grieves with the Inquisitor story. Aloysius is 10 times as useful as the other idiot ghosts you bring with you wherever you go, he's probably more powerful than any of them and he would have tried to keep the other ghosts from taking over after the fight in Thanaton's meditation chamber. Lack of Aloysius was disappointing. Also, what I think Aloysius meant was that he was lacking the power to appear to the Inquisitor light years away from his tomb as he did several times in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Again...I do believe it is implied that the Emperor may have absorbed Aloysis' spirit, before his confrontation with the Jedi Knight, thus increasing his power in the process. After all, as far as the force-phenomena is concerned, the Dark Temple seemed pacified enough as it was.Anyway, that's my theory on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exosasa Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Again...I do believe it is implied that the Emperor may have absorbed Aloysis' spirit, before his confrontation with the Jedi Knight, thus increasing his power in the process. After all, as far as the force-phenomena is concerned, the Dark Temple seemed pacified enough as it was.Anyway, that's my theory on the subject. Interesting theory... what did you base it off of? I hope it isn't true -- I kinda don't like the idea of gramps being eaten by someone other than me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Interesting theory... what did you base it off of? I hope it isn't true -- I kinda don't like the idea of gramps being eaten by someone other than me Well... By the time the Jedi Knight gets to the Dark Temple on DK, all Force-driven phenomena seems to have subsided. Plus, the final confrontation takes place in the innermost chamber of the area where Aloysius' remains were laid to rest. Seeing that the Emperor was -- supposedly -- weakened following his failed ritual, I have come to assume he chose to pacify the Dark Temple, by absorbing the Force-spirits of the dead Sith Lords that lied therein, including Aloysius.Again, not the best theory ever. Even so, I find it preferable than assuming the writers couldn't be bothered to provide a measure of closure to the character. Edited October 29, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Again...I do believe it is implied that the Emperor may have absorbed Aloysis' spirit, before his confrontation with the Jedi Knight, thus increasing his power in the process. After all, as far as the force-phenomena is concerned, the Dark Temple seemed pacified enough as it was.Anyway, that's my theory on the subject. Someone who never played the Inquisitor story wouldn't possibly care, and people who did play it would be annoyed because Aloysius was pretty cool. What great writing that would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Someone who never played the Inquisitor story wouldn't possibly care, and people who did play it would be annoyed because Aloysius was pretty cool. What great writing that would be. As I said afterwards: Again, not the best theory ever. Even so, I find it preferable than assuming the writers couldn't be bothered to provide a measure of closure to the character. If you have something better though, share. Edited October 29, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 As I said afterwards: If you have something better though, share. I totally would if I didn't agree that it's the most likely option. That doesn't mean I find it satisfying though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKatarn Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Again...I do believe it is implied that the Emperor may have absorbed Aloysis' spirit, before his confrontation with the Jedi Knight, thus increasing his power in the process. After all, as far as the force-phenomena is concerned, the Dark Temple seemed pacified enough as it was.Anyway, that's my theory on the subject. While an interesting theory, I do not necessarily believe that. As was stated by Darth Baras, the Dark Temple has "become a death trap" in "the Emperor's abscence". That would suggest to me, that the Emperor may have also have had some kind of power over the entrapped spirits of the Temple. When the Emperor left, other Sith came trying to uncover the secrets of the temple, thus waking the spirits resting there. Plus, the quest giver for the Dark Temple quest specifically references Kallig as the originator of the phenomena happening in the temple. Following the Inquisitor's ascendence to Sith Lord, he said that he was "at peace". That would suggest to me at least that following the end of that arc, Kallig had no more reason to cause trouble at the temple. Plus, the final confrontation takes place in the innermost chamber of the area where Aloysius' remains were laid to rest. I was just about to call you wrong on that, when I realized you're actually right about this. I seemed to recall Kallig's resting place was on the first floor of the temple, not the second, but they actually are on the same level. Interestingly, there is a wall blocking off further intrusion into the temple halls when you first visit Kallig's tomb, but later when you confront Zash and when the Knight fights the Emperor, that wall is gone. Then again, when you fight Zash, the innermost chamber has an altar with the stone carving of Tulak Hord presumably (while the "artifacts", aka the little Holocrons you found for Zash are nowhere to be seen or are even mentioned), yet during the confrontation of the Emperor, a throne is standing there instead. Seeing that the Emperor was -- supposedly -- weakened following his failed ritual, I have come to assume he chose to pacify the Dark Temple, by absorbing the Force-spirits of the dead Sith Lords that lied therein, including Aloysius. I would rather assume that the Emperor was not weakened by a failed ritual, but more by having his mind transfered to another host body after the Warrior killed his Voice on Voss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) I totally would if I didn't agree that it's the most likely option. That doesn't mean I find it satisfying though Same boat here. Again, I do like the Inquisitor story but every so often, I get the feeling it was penned by a million different people, at different intervals. I would rather assume that the Emperor was not weakened by a failed ritual, but more by having his mind transfered to another host body after the Warrior killed his Voice on Voss. That is incorrect. The Voice cannot die. Only the host body dies. Also, Tol-Braga states that the Emperor was in a "weakened state", presumably due to the failed ritual. No reference of being weakened, following his release on Voss, is made Sith Warrior-side. Edited October 29, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exosasa Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Well... By the time the Jedi Knight gets to the Dark Temple on DK, all Force-driven phenomena seems to have subsided. Plus, the final confrontation takes place in the innermost chamber of the area where Aloysius' remains were laid to rest. Seeing that the Emperor was -- supposedly -- weakened following his failed ritual, I have come to assume he chose to pacify the Dark Temple, by absorbing the Force-spirits of the dead Sith Lords that lied therein, including Aloysius.Again, not the best theory ever. Even so, I find it preferable than assuming the writers couldn't be bothered to provide a measure of closure to the character. Makes sense. RIP (again) Gramps <3 I better get to bind the Emperor one day... get Gramps back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKatarn Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) The Voice cannot die. Only the host body dies. The point being? I know that only the Voice died, but that does not have to mean that the Emperor is not affected by this. Afterall, if he wasn't affected by this, how would you explain him essentially falling into a coma after being struck down by the Knight? One of the Servant One post-story mails says that the shock of being ripped from his host body essentially knocked the Emperor's essence out. The only way how one could explain is that, unlike during his battle with the Knight, he was prepared for his Voice's death at the hands of the Warrior on Voss. He did say something about "lowering his defenses". Also, Tol-Braga states that the Emperor was in a "weakened state", presumably due to the failed ritual. The question is, how much did Tol Braga actually know? Especially since he broke free of his control, so who knows how much he really knows about what transpires with the Emperor besides him performing a ritual that would make him the ultimate being in the universe. Frankly, I just don't see how "failing the ritual" weakens the Emperor. We just don't know enough about the nature of said ritual to understand how it affects the Emperor. Plus, during two of the three attempts to perform said ritual, the Emperor was not even present / in any position to do something, since he was stuck on Voss courtesy of Baras. This makes me assume that the preparations of this ritual were carried out by the Hand, presumably with the Emperor's real body still elsewhere. Then again, if the Emperor's sanctuary is someplace else in the galaxy, why did he possess a host body on Dromund Kaas? What was he doing there to begin with? Edited October 30, 2014 by BenKatarn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) The Voice cannot die according to the Hand. This is stated during the SW story. As such, the Voice never died but was rather released. Also, the information given during the JK story pertains its framework and as such, it is far more logical to assume Tol-Braga is referring to the Emperor's failed ritual, rather than the latter being trapped on Voss, something Braga is likely not aware of.I haven't read your second spoiler though, seeing that you somehow deemed fit to try and spoil stuff for the upcoming expansion. I have been trying to avoid Reddit like the plague as to not be spoiled and I will continue to do so. As such, from hence forth -- seeing I was warned by a friend before reading it -- I appreciate you'd notify people in advance. I don't know what is and I frankly don't care. Just be considerate of others next time. Spoiler tags infer spoiling about stuff that has come and gone, NOT STUFF THAT HASN'T BEEN RELEASED YET. In other words...Da****ned. Edited October 29, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenKatarn Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The Voice cannot die according to the Hand. This is stated during the SW story. We need to establish some context here. The Voice of the Emperor is nothing but a container, a "conduit for the Emperor's will". Perhaps it is even more appropriate to refer to the Voice as a "mechanism". The Emperor himself is elsewhere, but if there is something somewhere in the galaxy that catches his interest and he sees the need to act, he possesses an appropriate body to carry out whatever task he sees fit to do himself. As we have seen, this can be either a specifically prepared host body like the one on Voss or Dromund Kaas, or one of the Children of the Emperor, like we saw with Kira. "The Emperor chooses one being to physically embody. This being is the Voice. It is obeyed as the Emperor himself." -Servant One The Emperor possesses a being and speaks through said being. That being can still die, and the Voice can be silenced. What does not die is the Emperor. His essence returns to the Hand upon the host body "expiring" and through a ritual, can be transferred into a new body. This is stated by in-game mail from Servant One after you are done with Voss. As such, the Voice can physically die, but since the essence lingers on, it can reappear shortly thereafter. Therefore, we need to differenciate between the Voice of the Emperor as the physical body and the actual Voice that is the conciousness of the Emperor. To put it in simpler terms, the Emperor is remote-controlling a robot. You can still smash the robot and destroy it, but that does not kill the one controlling it. But for whatever reason, the Knight's battle with the Emperor's "robot" caused some sort of backlash that caused the Emperor's essense / soul to fall unconcious. As such, from hence forth -- seeing I was warned by a friend before reading it -- I appreciate you'd notify people in advance. My apologies. I've editted my above post for save reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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