Why does my Scoundrel suck?

[Havenstone]

Before I get into the specifics, I'd like to make a few points clear. Firstly, I'm not a child, I'm a fully grown man who has largely NOT played computer games. I was usually relegated to watching siblings/friends/whoever play. This goes double for MMOs - aside from a few months playing Champions Online, I've had minimal experience with the genre. If you're going to offer advice please keep that in mind. I know what DPS and Tank are, but if someone is going to geek out what I'm doing wrong I'm just going to scratch my head.

 

When I first heard of the game, about a year ago, I wanted to play a Smuggler before the people I heard about the game from even mentioned whether there was the class. Once details had been established, I opted to go for the Scoundrel purely for flavour reasons. The idea of getting in close and mixing it up felt more lik what I wanted. I was involved in the Beta Test and played a Commando and a Sniper, so as not to 'spoil the story'. The cover mechanic was nice, but I still didn't wish to wield two weapons with my Smuggler.

 

Once I started playing I was finding that I was fragile, but not as bad off as a Sniper. I accepted that Smugglers are just going to have fewer hit points, and I was going to die quicker than a lot of other classes. I chose to focus on the Scrapper tree as I didn't see myself playing with others a lot, and again, as a flavour choice. I don't begrudge those who wish to heal, but it's not what I envisioned for this character.

 

I dragged myself through Coruscant, Taris and Nar Shadda with minimal complaints but some dying, and found out on Tatooine that even with a focus on Stealth, Level 50 mooks are still going to know I'm there. I made an effort to do as many missions as possible, and was usually 4-5 levels above the starting point for a planet (I was 29 when I went to Tatooine, 32 when I got to Alderaan, etc)

 

Alderaan was where I started really noticing something. Things were tough for me, I had a companion out (it was Bowdaar at the time, but they've all proven less than ideal), but I would find it tough against a mob. A regular mob. Don't even ask how I coped against opposition with stars. I am in a guild, but my links to it are rather tenuous (as they're my wife's friends and have their own things to do), and after mentioned my frustration, they sent me a few items and told me to 'update my mods'. I didn't want to tell them that I had been doing that all along.

 

I got through Alderaan, somehow, and with dogged determination through Balmorra (those Colocoids were infuriating), and now find myself on Quesh. I've been able to complete the Class Missions on Quesh (just - non-respawning mobs worked in my favour, although it still took me three attempts to get past the one group), but the completist nature within me would like to find out just what is going wrong with my character. I was Quesh a few hours ago, and after trying to tackle a Destrructor Droid who was too close to a mob and wiping out, I asked for advice. I'm on a US East Coast server (I'm in Australia - no, latency shouldn't be an issue for this), and asked the only other person on the world (a Jedi Sentinel) whether they were finding it difficult. They said no, and that Scoundrels were great for PvP (something I'll address in another paragraph) and nigh-unstopable. I logged off then and spent the next several hours trying to find a guide for Scoundrels that didn't require me to make a purchase or understand MMO.

 

You might be asking how someone could get to this level without knowing how their character works? I'd like to know that myself. I'm passable at space missions (still haven't passed the 40+ ones yet, even with Level 5 upgrades to my ship), and aside from trying to complete every mission I can, even if you lose at PvP, you still get experience. Although not interested in PvP, I have decided to give it a go, and found it to be infuriating - to the point where I'll swear and carry on in a general chat despite being a grown man. I don't try and heal others, but seem to attract a ridiculous amount of attention from whatever opposing team there is. I timed an Alderaan battle today, and from the time I got to a contested gun emplacement to death was 6 seconds. I'm not doing a lot of damage (as can be proven by the end-game results), and I now mentally brace myself for PvP by telling myself that I'll die a lot and the deaths don't eat away at my equipment.

 

 

Tactically, I find myself sticking to main roads on my speeder or using stealth to reach mission objectives rather tackle a mob of any size. An ideal situation has me starting in stealth with Flechetted Shoot First, followed by a Head Shot (if the target can take it - PvP and Gold Stars won't even let me us it). I'll follow with a mix of Blaster Whips, Sucker Punches, Dirty Kicks and Quick Shots, with Flurry of Bolts to keep my energy up. I use Surrender and Disappearing Trick a LOT (more than I feel comfortable with, honestly) but even they don't always help. I just seem to die. A LOT. Against mobs several levels below me.

 

I know this is a Scoundrel issue, as I have a Guardian and a Powertech (both damage-focused) around 25 and they stay longer AND do more damage. My Powertech for example, regulars cracks 75k damage in a PvP tournament with 25 enemies killed. My Scoundrel is lucky to do 30k, and he has the pleasure of dying a lot more frequently. My equipment has all be upgraded with Commendations (at this point Balmorra), but he's still dying all the time.

 

So, back to the title... Why DOES my Scoundrel suck?

[Aetou]

You didn't mention using any Crowd Control on Interrupts, both of which are essential to reduce the amount of damage your squishy character will be taking. You also didn't mention using Underworld Medicine. You'll often need to pop a few off while your target is effected by Flash Bang (just make sure it isn't bleeding before throwing flash bang.)

[Havenstone]

That's true. The only crowd control I'm aware of having is Slice Droid, which is I rarely use now because my companions used to break it. I've seen other classes with similar powers but don't know of mine.

 

I do heal when I think to, but find myself slapping medpacs more than using my own abilities.

 

A further concern/complaint I have is that by this level (42) my trays are looking dauntingly full. I've actually taken to dropping powers from the trays that I don't use/need (Quick Travel, Sprint -turned one, even Crouch, Back Blast and Blaster Volley). Charging me a bogload of credits for these powers is one thing, but giving me more powers than I can use another.

[ProsaicProse]

Do you use the Tranquilizer (dart) at all from stealth? It might help to put the strongest (non-droid) mob to sleep with it before engaging the rest in combat, and always "Slice Droid" if there is one. I found this Advanced Class seemed to need to use it's CC frequently to get the job done (and survive).

 

You can also expand the companions ability bar and turn off any area effects that might break CC (reading the tool tip on the ability should tell you if it affects one target, or multiple targets) by clicking the little "+" sign beside their portrait. Click the "-" sign on the expanded bar to close it again once your done turning area abilities off (you will know the ability is turned off because the ability will no longer have a green indicator on it.)

Edited March 25, 2012 by ProsaicProse

[Havenstone]

Doesn't the dart only last six seconds? That doesn't seem like a lot of time for me to deal with the rest of the group. Also, what of companions who'll want to smack what I've just shot - that is the droid I sliced or the mook I tranqed?

[ProsaicProse]

Tranquilizer lasts 60 seconds (1 minute). You should be able to read the tool-tip on it and find out. It's only usable on non-droids and while in stealth though, and I think you get this ability at level 20.

 

Here is a link to the ability on Torhead:

http://www.torhead.com/ability/bR6UWdo/tranquilizer

 

And here is a video on Youtube about managing the companion bar to turn things on and off:

Edited March 25, 2012 by ProsaicProse

[shama]

Just some random tips:

 

- Use your kick interrupts

- Make sure you use backblast a lot, if you can't get behind your opponents (because they are always targeting you) then either use a tank companion or use your 'surrender' to drop aggro

- Sucker punch/pistol whip/KO are also high damage so make sure you use them whenever available, if they rely on upper hand then ensure you're getting it

- Remember your heal abilities, as medpacks will have a long cooldown

[Aetou]

Ok, we actually have quite a lot of Crowd Control abilities, at least for PVE.

 

Tranquilizer Dart, Dirty Kick, Flash Bang, Slice Droid. Distraction is our 'proper' Interrupt, but Flash Bang and Dirty Kick should also be used as interrupts (i.e., use them when the target is channeling an ability and the bar is about half full) in order to significantly reduce the damage you're taking.

 

You said you're using Bowdar and one of his big problems is that several of his abilities will break Tranq Dart and Flash Bang - so turn those abilities off (all his AOEs, basically.)

 

We definitely do have a lot of abilities, which can be a pain. I have all four bars full and would estimate that I routinely use almost all of them. Some of the abilities you listed as not using are ones you definitely should be using. Back Blast, for example, is actually our main damage dealer and you should be using it every 9s. In general, as a Scrapper your main attack abilities should be Flechette Round, Back Blast, Blaster Whip, Sucker Punch, Flurry of Bolts, Vital Shot, Cheap Shot (and I also use Thermal Grenade a lot if it won't break CC due to how the mobs are placed.) So on top of those 8 attacks you have your CC and Interrupts. Then Underworld Medicine and Pugnacity. They are your 'core' abilities that should all be key bound or at least very accessible. You'll open with Shoot First too of course but as you only use that once per fight it doesn't need to be as accessible (a sidebar is fine in PVE.)

[Decrisit]

I know you said you use Bowdaar alot but have to tried using Corso? I tend to find he is better in almost all situations simply because of his AoE taunt, EMP blast, and Harpoon shot (Dont get me started on the 1.2 change to Harpoon). Also, what is your crafting skill? Personally, I'm an Armormech so I was able to gear out myself and Corso with gear that was right at my level for most of the game.

[Havenstone]

Companio-wise I've used all of them. Corso has tended to be the least-disappointing, but that's not saying much. Akaavi and Bowdarr both die really quickly, and after I took Risha into the Okara Droid Factory and she remained too far away from me to help, I've given up on her.

 

I'm going to try a few of these ideas and see how things pan out. Thank you all.

[drduncan]

It is sad that the overnerfing of scoundrels makes it this difficult for inexperienced gamers to even level one.

 

That is not shot at the OP at all..... because I'm sure he'd have no trouble with a sage/sorc or shadow/assassin.... that is a shot at bioware and their continual nerfing of scrapper/concealment to the point it creates a large skill curve compared to most if not all others.

Edited March 25, 2012 by drduncan

[Baelish]

- Make sure you use backblast a lot, if you can't get behind your opponents (because they are always targeting you) then either use a tank companion or use your 'surrender' to drop aggro...

Or use a stun/incap to get around behind them and unload again. Dirty Kick/Flash Grenade.

 

An alternative would be to respec Sawbones. If you keep your head, you can survive most things below a Heroic 4 of even level. You still get to rain in the high damage abilities, in between keeping Corso (or Bowdar, but Corso works best for the close range Scoundrel, I find, and his grapple will allow you to use CC, then pull the mobs you want to kill far enough away that you can use AEs to take 'em down).

[Agemnon]

That's true. The only crowd control I'm aware of having is Slice Droid, which is I rarely use now because my companions used to break it. I've seen other classes with similar powers but don't know of mine.

 

I do heal when I think to, but find myself slapping medpacs more than using my own abilities.

 

A further concern/complaint I have is that by this level (42) my trays are looking dauntingly full. I've actually taken to dropping powers from the trays that I don't use/need (Quick Travel, Sprint -turned one, even Crouch, Back Blast and Blaster Volley). Charging me a bogload of credits for these powers is one thing, but giving me more powers than I can use another.

 

I have sprint binded just in case it somehow turns off. Have you tried keybinding? Here's a list of what I have binded (and slice droid isn't there):

 

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa445/wow176/Screenshot_2012-03-24_16_11_25_740525.jpg

 

Note: That gun isn't my main gun I just bought it from the PvP vendor to see what it would look like.

[Agemnon]

It is sad that the overnerfing of scoundrels makes it this difficult for inexperienced gamers to even level one.

 

That is not shot at the OP at all..... because I'm sure he'd have no trouble with a sage/sorc or shadow/assassin.... that is a shot at bioware and their continual nerfing of scrapper/concealment to the point it creates a large skill curve compared to most if not all others.

 

And this skill could be offset easily without skill.

[shama]

I know you said you use Bowdaar alot but have to tried using Corso? I tend to find he is better in almost all situations simply because of his AoE taunt, EMP blast, and Harpoon shot.

 

I'll second that. Despite others who complain about his harpoon shot it is MY main distance closer. Corso brings me enemies one at a time and I get behind them and unleash the back blasts and blaster whip, while he keeps them occupied in a tanky kind of way.

[schwiz]

Use of your companion and keeping them well geared is more important when it comes to leveling than most people realize. Make sure you pick a companion you like and keep them in gear as good as yourself. Always take the commendation quest rewards and use them to buy mods/armoring in whatever orange armor you can find for both you and your companion. You can run though low level flashpoints and use the orange armor that drops there and just replace all the mods with stuff for your current level. Using presence stims helps too as it will make your companion stronger.

 

Leveling as the healing tree will also be a lot easier I think. If you have good gear on a dps companion or corso it will be a cake walk keeping them alive while they kill stuff for you. I was always way ahead of the curve with this strategy. I finished my class story at level 46 then at level 47 the daily 50 quests unlocked and I finished out the way to 50 running daily quests in illum and belsavis. Buy the time I hit 50 I also had enough daily commendations to get a full set of epic armorings.

[Culhaven]

Doesn't the dart only last six seconds? That doesn't seem like a lot of time for me to deal with the rest of the group. Also, what of companions who'll want to smack what I've just shot - that is the droid I sliced or the mook I tranqed?

 

You need to go to your companion's abilities and turn off anything that does damage to more than one target or something that says it does damage in a cone in front of you, or commonly know as area-of-effect (AoE) abilities. These are what break your slice droid or dart.

 

It is not normally your companion attacking your target that you cc (or put to sleep in some way), but them attacking another target near them with an AoE, which caused splash damage. This inadvertently wakes up the sleeping target.

[Shy-Nee]

Others have addressed leveling and given some good advice, the thing I want to help you out with is pvp.

 

PVP is complicated, particularly for scoundrels. The main idea I want to leave you with is that as a scoundrel you always want to be in stealth, you can't always be but you always wish you were. You look for an opportunity to make a kill or cap an objective and you do so, at the edges of the battle...you kill healers, you sneak in and steal an objective, you emerge from stealth to interrupt an essential action by an enemy player at just the right moment, you throw a heal on the ball carrier as he passes you, or stun/kill the guy about to attack or stun him, or drop a freighter flyby into a mob of enemies zerging an objective (which incidentally can do upwards of 30K damage all by itself once you're geared)..

 

Once you get used to the mechanics of scoundrel DPS, of opening up with shoot first from stealth with flechette round loaded, chaining damage attacks and stuns to quickly kill your target without giving him an opportunity to successfully fight back and then IMMEDIATELY reentering stealth to do so again, scoundrel is quite capable of topping the DPS chart, but that is not your goal, your goal is to win the game, and your class is actually quite good at facilitating that as part of a team. Topping charts is good for the ego but it doesn't decide matches.

 

Unfortunately low-level pvp is typically more of a street brawl than a team sport, but the other thing I want to say about PVP as a scrapper that I think a lot of players, even players who consider themselves good, don't fully comprehend is that despite the apparent lone hunter vibe of the spec pvp is going to suck if you're not working as part of a team, and if you don't understand the capabilities and weaknesses of the other classes in the game.

 

If you have a healer healing you, and a tank guarding you, and other people dpsing with you, and you do the scrapper thing and burst from stealth, exploit the weaknesses of your opponents and sieze opportunities to turn the tide of a match you can completely change the course of a warzone as a scrapper in a way no other class can, but you can only fill your role, and that role is not charging into a mellee and beating on everyone for six seconds at a time.

 

And keep everything on your bars, there's lots of slots for abilities, I know there's a ton of buttons to push but you really do need them all to play the class to its potential, although your main rotation may only be half a dozen buttons you stll need all of them available, try to fully explore the utility of the abilities you're not using one at a time, understand it, memorize where you've bound it, so you don't have to hunt for it.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Shy-Nee

[SageGaspar]

Honestly this game is not that easy, especially for a first-time MMO player. There are games where if you spec right you can get to level cap just mashing one or two AE buttons with no fear, but this is not one of 'em. If you're soloing and you're not overleveled you will probably die occasionally. There's a bit of a jump in difficulty around Alderaan to boot.

 

So don't get discouraged, just take it slow, set your companion to not use AE, use CC on the big guys, and murder your way from the little guys up. Also don't hesitate to use medpacks or that personal shield that absorbs some damage.

[LastChime]

If your having a lot of trouble just respec sawbones until you're more comfortable with the class, it's cheap =) .

 

It'll especially help ya out if you're not rolling with friends, just use Risha and you'll rip it up good, you'll never kill things as quick as some of the other specs but it's a way more forgiving way to play, and where's the fire burning anyhow? It's also good for pvp as you can sleep basically sleep and get a ton of commendations.

 

Funny thing is I'm actually slightly annoyed solo leveling my Jedi Guardian, cause I have to stop and rest, I'd just patch up with abilities Sawbones and keep rolling throughout.

[TyrantOfNordberg]

Alderaan is actually where it gets difficult for every class. I found that it was a rather high difficulty spike for all of my characters. As has been mentioned before, Corso fits the scoundrels playstyle a lot better than Bowdaar.

 

I still found my tanks a little squishy so as soon as I got Risha I just let the Aggro bounce around between the two of us too mitigate damage better. Before I got Risha I had Corso and Bowdaar in their DPS stances.

[InfiniteEarths]

Since you mentioned you were new to this I will bring up a couple of important points.

 

1. Make sure you are purchasing your skill upgrades. On the fleet there is a class trainer that will give you new skills and also sell more powerful versions of ones you already have. It is essential to buy all of these as you level (except the speeder piloting one).

 

2. Are you upgrading your gear and/or filling all of your gear slots? Make sure you do so for your companions too. If you don't get the drops you need, check the Galactic Trade Kiosk at the fleet and buy items.

 

3. You were right to look up guides. No need to buy any, all the info is freely available on the web.

 

4. Cunning is your most important stat, level it. As in, don't use gear designed for other classes. Also don't wear light armor, use medium.