Mara/Pally Bubble needs to be looked at(Undying Rage)

[Astarica]

Undying Rage is actually not that strong in group PvP because you can simply hit someone else and completely negate the immunity aspect of it. It's only a problem in a quasi 1on1 situation where you don't have another target to hit and just got to withstand 5 seconds of pain without recourse.

 

Now if someone was foolish enough to have five guys focus fire on a Marauder in Undying Rage it's their fault for not recognizing what happened. You get pretty much the same result if you try to focus fire on someone with a Force Shroud, arguably worse because most of your CCs would fail too even though you can do a little bit more damage, but usually not more because focus fire abilities tend to be Force/Tech.

[BiggDirty]

We do not do more DPS than any other class, completely false. IF you think this then you have not played with good sages or shadows.

 

Sages, did you really just say sages?

 

SAGES?

 

LOL

 

Anything you say from this point forward is officially invalid.

 

Sages have the LOWEST dps in the game. It doesn't even come CLOSE to a fully geared sentinel.

[LiveandDieinLA]

Vanish which breaks on damage, and if you're being focused by 4 people you can bet your behind that you are not going to stealth away unscathed.

 

Commando healer shield? How is that relevant? That is a flat 25% damage reduction, hardly enough to matter in a focus fire situation, not to mention you're talking about a commando healer which is irrelevant to this discussion since we are talking about a pure dps class.

 

AOE knockback? Are you serious? You think doing a knockback with 4 people on you is somehow going to buy you enough time to receive heals? Ever heard of ranged attacks? Ever heard of melee saving their gap closers for knockbacks?

 

NONE of the things you mentioned will even remotely come close to saving you from dying if you are being focused by 4 dps and are at 10% health.

 

knockbacks specced with root = no gap closer. Vanish + force shroud = unbreakable stealth.

Yeah the Merc healer bubble is different, but 15 seconds of un interuptable heals basically makes them invincible for the duration.

[JustinxDuff]

Sages, did you really just say sages?

 

SAGES?

 

LOL

 

Anything you say from this point forward is officially invalid.

 

Sages have the LOWEST dps in the game. It doesn't even come CLOSE to a fully geared sentinel.

 

If played right they sure do.

Edited April 5, 2012 by JustinxDuff

[Alphasgimaone]

What about making it specifically a Guard/Jugg skill?

 

 

Or even going so far as putting it in the Def/Imm tree?

[SoBlue]

I said this a few times but stun doesn't counter Undying Rage at all.

 

Use stun at any other time = 4 seconds of DPS negated.

 

Use stun during Undying Rage = 4 seconds of DPS negated.

 

The result is exactly the same. The only way to counter it are:

 

1. Root (very few classes can actually do this at melee range).

2. The ability to create space twice in 5 seconds, or the ability to create exactly 5-9 meters of space (more than that they can leap).

 

For example, a Darkness Assassin can do Overload followed by a Force Speed to do this. That's about the only example I can think of too. Most classes can only create space once in 5 seconds.

You're missing the point. It's not all about negating dps. It's about minimalizing the usefulness of the enemies Undying Rage because you can't kill them during that ability. If they pop it and you immediately stun them, it turns into a 1 sec 99% dmg reduction.

 

 

Everytime I face a Mara/Sent myself, I always save Force Choke for when they have about 2-3k hp, also ensuring bleed effects are ticking, and they will die before they can pop Undying Rage(barring use of CC breaker). And my Force Choke is channeled, so I cannot do other abilities during that time, that's why it's important for my bleeds to be ticking. Or if they pop Undying Rage before I CC, then I still use my Force Choke and CC them for 4 secs of the 5 sec Undying Rage.

 

 

The ability can be negated to almost no usefulness if you know how to play.

Edited April 5, 2012 by SoBlue

[BiggDirty]

If played right they sure do.

 

Just stop man, you are clueless.

 

There is only one way to "play" a sage. I should know, it's my main.

 

Sage dps is a joke compared to shadow, assault vanguard, scoundrel, gunslinger, even guardian ffs.

 

 

 

Why do you post on these forums? All you're doing is spreading misinformation to people who are naive enough to believe your nonsense. Because of people like you, the vast majority of people think sages do "insane damage", which is why they are getting an uncalled for nerf.

 

You think sages have high dps, and sentinels are not OP? What a hilariously backwards view of the game you have.

[BiggDirty]

You're missing the point. It's not all about negating dps. It's about minimalizing the usefulness of the enemies Undying Rage because you can't kill them during that ability. If they pop it and you immediately stun them, it turns into a 1 sec 99% dmg reduction.

 

 

Everytime I face a Mara/Sent myself, I always save Force Choke for when they have about 2-3k hp, also ensuring bleed effects are ticking, and they will die before they can pop Undying Rage(barring use of CC breaker). And my Force Choke is channeled, so I cannot do other abilities during that time, that's why it's important for my bleeds to be ticking. Or if they pop Undying Rage before I CC, then I still use my Force Choke and CC them for 4 secs of the 5 sec Undying Rage.

 

 

The ability can be negated to almost no usefulness if you know how to play.

 

Congrats, you described a meaningless 1v1 situation, in a thread which is clearly discussing the issue of getting HEALED TO FULL during the 5 second immunity.

[Astarica]

You're missing the point. It's not all about negating dps. It's about minimalizing the usefulness of the enemies Undying Rage. If they pop it and you immediately stun them, it turns into a 1 sec 99% dmg reduction.

 

 

Everytime I face a Mara/Sent myself, I always save Force Choke for when they have about 2-3k hp, also ensuring bleed effects are ticking, and they will die before they can pop Undying Rage(barring use of CC breaker). And my Force Choke is channeled, so I cannot do other abilities during that time, that's why it's important for my bleeds to be ticking. Or if they pop Undying Rage before I CC, then I still use my Force Choke and CC them for 4 secs of the 5 sec Undying Rage.

 

 

The ability can be negated to almost no usefulness if you know how to play.

 

Stunning them doesn't shorten the duration they're invulenrable. If you attack them after the stun you'll find they'll still every bit as hard to kill as without a stun while the buff is up.

 

The 5 seconds of invulnerability cannot be circumvented unless you just hit a different target (in this case stun was not relevent). In fact Undying Rage is likely a bad time to stun compared to any other time because they'll probably have their dots rolling before they use it (common sense), so you actually didn't negate all their DPS because the dots are still on you, whereas if you use it early enough it does negate all their DPS as they wouldn't have the chance to apply dots.

 

Now a lot of time you use stun on an Undying Rage because if you don't do it you'll die, but in this case you really should have used the stun earlier.

[LiveandDieinLA]

Just stop man, you are clueless.

 

There is only one way to "play" a sage. I should know, it's my main.

 

Sage dps is a joke compared to shadow, assault vanguard, scoundrel, gunslinger, even guardian ffs.

 

 

 

Why do you post on these forums? All you're doing is spreading misinformation to people who are naive enough to believe your nonsense. Because of people like you, the vast majority of people think sages do "insane damage", which is why they are getting an uncalled for nerf.

 

You think sages have high dps, and sentinels are not OP? What a hilariously backwards view of the game you have.

 

There is not "one way to play a sage".

 

Sorry, but if you are getting out dpsed all the time by melees you are just bad.

[BiggDirty]

There is not "one way to play a sage".

 

Sorry, but if you are getting out dpsed all the time by melees you are just bad.

 

How much you want to bet this noob measures "dps" by what he sees on the scoreboard at the end of the game?

 

FYI, I average 500-600k per game on my sage. I know what I'm doing, and my dps SUCKS compared to all of those classes that I mentioned.

[BrotardNosef]

Congrats, you described a meaningless 1v1 situation, in a thread which is clearly discussing the issue of getting HEALED TO FULL during the 5 second immunity.

 

Why is the Mara/Sent at low life if the healer is still alive? A sage's saber swing is OP if they are playing against people who just run into the wall.

[BiggDirty]

Why is the Mara/Sent at low life if the healer is still alive? A sage's saber swing is OP if they are playing against people who just run into the wall.

 

Oh my bad, I forgot that your healer is landing 15k heals and has no problem keeping you alive when people are critting you for 4k every 0.2 seconds while you have a 20% healing debuff on you.

[SoBlue]

Stunning them doesn't shorten the duration they're invulenrable. If you attack them after the stun you'll find they'll still every bit as hard to kill as without a stun while the buff is up.

 

The 5 seconds of invulnerability cannot be circumvented unless you just hit a different target (in this case stun was not relevent). In fact Undying Rage is likely a bad time to stun compared to any other time because they'll probably have their dots rolling before they use it (common sense), so you actually didn't negate all their DPS because the dots are still on you, whereas if you use it early enough it does negate all their DPS as they wouldn't have the chance to apply dots.

 

Now a lot of time you use stun on an Undying Rage because if you don't do it you'll die, but in this case you really should have used the stun earlier.

 

I DID NOT say there is a way to shorten the duration of UR. But IF you stun them when they use UR, then once your stun wears off, he will only have 1 sec more of 99% dmg reduction and 1 sec more of using his abilities(beyond bleeds) to damage you before he goes back to taking 100% dmg. And if you or someone in your group can interrupt whatever healer may be around, the Mara will die quickly.

 

And I'm sorry but if I want DoTs on you, they will be on you. You cannot avoid that during a fight with an Annihilation Marauder

 

 

UR is the perfect time to use a stun(or root).

Edited April 5, 2012 by SoBlue

[LiveandDieinLA]

How much you want to bet this noob measures "dps" by what he sees on the scoreboard at the end of the game?

 

FYI, I average 500-600k per game on my sage. I know what I'm doing, and my dps SUCKS compared to all of those classes that I mentioned.

 

hahaha ok, I'm done with you, can't argue with stupid.

[JustinxDuff]

How much you want to bet this noob measures "dps" by what he sees on the scoreboard at the end of the game?

 

FYI, I average 500-600k per game on my sage. I know what I'm doing, and my dps SUCKS compared to all of those classes that I mentioned.

 

lol.....

[Xerain]

This thread is pointless.

[BrotardNosef]

Oh my bad, I forgot that your healer is landing 15k heals and has no problem keeping you alive when people are critting you for 4k every 0.2 seconds while you have a 20% healing debuff on you.

 

What is this I don't even...

 

There should never be a time when a healer pops a Sent/Mara back to full life during their UR, because the healers should be long dead before the Sent/Mara gets low on life and needs to use UR. Focus the healers first, rule #1 of MMO PvP.

 

The hypothetical 1v1 situation where UR would be OP shouldn't occur in a WZ, nor should the hypothetical situation where a healer gets a Sent/Mara back to full during the 5s window, assuming people are playing properly. Every ability can be put in a scenario with a group of baddies and get termed "OP".

[mjohnsonfhk]

Undying Rage is actually not that strong in group PvP because you can simply hit someone else and completely negate the immunity aspect of it. It's only a problem in a quasi 1on1 situation where you don't have another target to hit and just got to withstand 5 seconds of pain without recourse.

 

Now if someone was foolish enough to have five guys focus fire on a Marauder in Undying Rage it's their fault for not recognizing what happened. You get pretty much the same result if you try to focus fire on someone with a Force Shroud, arguably worse because most of your CCs would fail too even though you can do a little bit more damage, but usually not more because focus fire abilities tend to be Force/Tech.

 

And what about if the marauder is the ball carrier or protecting a node?

 

And if i switch targets, then i still need to debuff the new target which is taking time. I may have also burned cooldowns which i will not be able to use on the new target. Meanwhile the marauder is bashing the crap out of me or my healer. Giving him time to be rehealed back up to full.

 

The amount of situational control this ability provides, is unmatched.

 

As far as force shroud, at least it has some counters. Every class has some form of pure damage that is not force/tech. At least i have an option.

[JustinxDuff]

And what about if the marauder is the ball carrier or protecting a node?

 

And if i switch targets, then i still need to debuff the new target which is taking time. I may have also burned cooldowns which i will not be able to use on the new target. Meanwhile the marauder is bashing the crap out of me or my healer. Giving him time to be rehealed back up to full.

 

The amount of situational control this ability provides, is unmatched.

 

As far as force shroud, at least it has some counters. Every class has some form of pure damage that is not force/tech. At least i have an option.

 

Well since you brought up Huttball...how is UR anymore OP than force speed or a pull?

 

If you see a mara that you know is good solo on a node then why would you attack him? Get 2 people and he will die.

 

Force shroud can't be CC'd but takes damage. UR can be CC'd but take little to no dmg.

Edited April 5, 2012 by JustinxDuff

[Ahhmyface]

Well since you brought up Huttball...how is UR anymore OP than force speed or a pull?

 

If you see a mara that you know is good solo on a node then why would you attack him? Get 2 people and he will die.

 

Force shroud can't be CC'd but takes damage. UR can be CC'd but take little to no dmg.

 

UR is more powerful than anything else because of the way it scales.

 

If it was a single target 99% damage debuff, nobody would call it op. It's because it stops everything. Literally everything. Fire, acid, 8 players. It doesn't matter how much damage is being thrown, you're a-ok. No other ability scales like that. Every other ability has a weakness. Undying rage has none. Vanish can be aoed, (force camo can't, but that's just another OP ability and should prob get its own thread). Force shroud takes white damage, sabre ward only parried 25%.

 

Let's be realistic here. You are out of touch with the game if you think this ability is fine. 99% compared to 25-50 on every other ability. When undying rage is 25% dr, then we can talk.

[mordredz]

Good to see ppl still crying over 4s of 99% dmg reduction...

 

I could see tears if we couldnt be cc'd/knockedback/etc but ya we can, and yet tears still fall...

[mordredz]

UR is more powerful than anything else because of the way it scales.

 

If it was a single target 99% damage debuff, nobody would call it op. It's because it stops everything. Literally everything. Fire, acid, 8 players. It doesn't matter how much damage is being thrown, you're a-ok. No other ability scales like that. Every other ability has a weakness. Undying rage has none. Vanish can be aoed, (force camo can't, but that's just another OP ability and should prob get its own thread). Force shroud takes white damage, sabre ward only parried 25%.

 

Let's be realistic here. You are out of touch with the game if you think this ability is fine. 99% compared to 25-50 on every other ability. When undying rage is 25% dr, then we can talk.

 

How does 99% scale? im confused, or your a bit um ya...

[JustinxDuff]

UR is more powerful than anything else because of the way it scales.

 

If it was a single target 99% damage debuff, nobody would call it op. It's because it stops everything. Literally everything. Fire, acid, 8 players. It doesn't matter how much damage is being thrown, you're a-ok. No other ability scales like that. Every other ability has a weakness. Undying rage has none. Vanish can be aoed, (force camo can't, but that's just another OP ability and should prob get its own thread). Force shroud takes white damage, sabre ward only parried 25%.

 

Let's be realistic here. You are out of touch with the game if you think this ability is fine. 99% compared to 25-50 on every other ability. When undying rage is 25% dr, then we can talk.

 

I just realized you were an assassin. lol

[Ahhmyface]

How does 99% scale? im confused, or your a bit um ya...

 

Because no matter how many things or how much damage attacks a marauder, it doesn't die.

 

Everybody else's defensive cds save them from 1-2 players at best. 99% means i would need to do 100x my normal damage to make it equal. My defensive cd forces you to have to do 1.25x. That's right. A marauder getting attacked by 100 players takes the same amount of damage I would being attacked by 1.25 .

 

Ability is fine, l2p LOL

 

Let's just pretend for a moment you're not a clueless FOTM. If it's so easy to just CC or knockback, or kill the healer, or blah blah blah, why doesnt everyone elses defensive cd provide 99% protection? I mean, you'd be ok with that right? You'd just attack somebody else, right?

Edited April 5, 2012 by Ahhmyface