Medpacks... are you kidding me?!?!!?!?

[Raeln]

I still don't know why you keep replying to my posts when we argue for the same thing lol. I never said I want challenging, what I want is for the game potential not to be brought down just because some don't understand how this is a good step towards fight design, and want their mediocre skill level to be the one that matters.

 

I am a heavily casual raider, I get the feeling you believe otherwise. Maybe that why you so intent? Funny enough, our guild is still struggling at early HardMode EV, and nobody seems to care about this change. We will deal with it, cause it means more game depth.

 

I am happy with running Story Mode, and simply don't understand how people mix all this BS about Nightmare difficulty, game content, subscriptions and why if they nerf medpacks they are going against your ability to enjoy the game. It is just a huge joke, a little kid's tantrum. After all, there are WAY more people posting here than have bothered to roll a new toon on PTS and try to run a mid-lvl FP with the new medpack system like some in my guild did.

 

Apparently they need BW to copy their 50 toon or it's a no-go. After all, they pay for the game and the right to stop breathing when they don't get their way.

 

Oh my god we better listen to them or they will go away and we won't have the game anymore!

 

I don't think there would be this outrage if the medpack limitation only applied to hardmode/nightmare modes and was left as is for story mode Operations and the rest of the game.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Raeln

[schnopsnosn]

It's not about "bothering to roll a new toon", it's the fact that most people are simply lacking the time to level up another character only for the PTS for 1.2 when 1.2 will be deployed before they reach 50...

[Urkanan]

I don't think there would be this outrage if the medpack limitation only applied to hardmode/nightmare modes and was left as is for story mode Operations and the rest of the game.

 

Oh I would definitely go along with that.

 

It's not about "bothering to roll a new toon", it's the fact that most people are simply lacking the time to level up another character only for the PTS for 1.2 when 1.2 will be deployed before they reach 50...

 

Yeah I just disagree with complaining about something you haven't even experienced yet simply because it feels like they are taking away your toy.

 

Same with BH healing nerfs. I didn't get copied, leveled enough to do FP, Heroic 4s and World Bosses with a rather underleveled group for extra challenge, we still did fine. I don't see the big deal.

 

You dont need a 50 toon in PTS to try things out lol.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Urkanan

[Shecrazy]

Its quite simple... they said they were going to make the game more focused on skill based play instead of numbers based play.

 

 

They start pushing it in that direction and the knee-jerk reaction of the less skilled players being carried by this and that is to instantly start crying out bull.

 

I as a cybertech STILL after the 1.2 changes have no reason to keep cybertech over biochem on my char the difference is ludicrous even with only 1 medpack use per fight. The difference in ALWAYS having a rakata medpack and ALWAYS having a exotech level stim on and ALWAYS having adrenals guaranteed, for free, not possible to run out just stomps all over anything everything else has to offer.

 

So please cry nerfbat biochemists, I will continue leveling my alt (which will probably become my main) as a biochem because this change is of little to no effect to me and that class does not have self heals.

 

Skilled / competent players again will simply adapt to the change as its not a big deal. Mediocre and worse players will continue making rage threads about it.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Shecrazy

[Raeln]

Its quite simple... they said they were going to make the game more focused on skill based play instead of numbers based play.

 

 

They start pushing it in that direction and the knee-jerk reaction of the less skilled players being carried by this and that is to instantly start crying out bull.

 

I as a cybertech STILL after the 1.2 changes have no reason to keep cybertech over biochem on my char the difference is ludicrous even with only 1 medpack use per fight. The difference in ALWAYS having a rakata medpack and ALWAYS having a exotech level stim on and ALWAYS having adrenals guaranteed, for free, not possible to run out just stomps all over anything everything else has to offer.

 

So please cry nerfbat biochemists, I will continue leveling my alt (which will probably become my main) as a biochem because this change is of little to no effect to me and that class does not have self heals.

 

Skilled / competent players again will simply adapt to the change as its not a big deal. Mediocre and worse players will continue making rage threads about it.

 

I like Bioware but I'll believe they are "trying" to move away from a numbers based game when they stop releasing new tiers of gear that have massive stat gains. As long as stats are the primary scaling factor for a character - the game will be numbers based.

 

As for remaining Biochem, that is still out for ruling. I suspect that once the Rakata reusables are too subpar to be useful, I'll probably just switch my Biochem to an alt since at that point there will be no bonus to having Biochem on the main.

 

Yes, I think all crafting professions should have some perk that gives them all the same power increase. The issue with Rakata reusables was not that they reusable, it was that they were more powerful. It would have been effective enough if Biochems just innately did not consume the adrenals, medpacks and stims that they used and they were the same exact item they traded to others.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Raeln

[SpaceJ]

After all, there are WAY more people posting here than have bothered to roll a new toon on PTS and try to run a mid-lvl FP with the new medpack system like some in my guild did.

 

Apparently they need BW to copy their 50 toon or it's a no-go. After all, they pay for the game and the right to stop breathing when they don't get their way.

 

Oh my god we better listen to them or they will go away and we won't have the game anymore!

 

The flaw in your argument?

 

This is a game. For fun.

 

No one is going to enjoy playing through the exact same content with the exact same crafting skill just to provide BioWare with data. I'm paying for a subscription on a monthly basis, and leveling a chracter to level 50 (again, mind you, with the same class/crafting combination) is work that I'm paying money to do for them.

 

If you don't see an issue with that, I propose you come and do my job for me and send the salary you get from it to me.

 

They should have had a character copy tool already in place if they wanted useful feed back. As it is, it's obvious that they wanted 'elite' player feedback as quickly as possible. They basically invited all the criers into the PTS server to see how bad the complaints were, so I think they've managed to get exactly what they wanted out of this.

[Kaddie]

PvP?

 

What PvP fights are you in which last over 90 seconds? Healer vs healer? ROFL.

 

Maybe in Voidstar, as defender, I can see you being in combat > 90 seconds if you are amazing and never die. Maybe.

 

This change is a complete non-issue for PvP. This affects PvE Boss Fights tremendously, however.

 

/facepalm

 

Reading noobs answers like that make me want to throw up.

[schnopsnosn]

Oh I would definitely go along with that.

 

 

 

Yeah I just disagree with complaining about something you haven't even experienced yet simply because it feels like they are taking away your toy.

 

Same with BH healing nerfs. I didn't get copied, leveled enough to do FP, Heroic 4s and World Bosses with a rather underleveled group for extra challenge, we still did fine. I don't see the big deal.

 

You dont need a 50 toon in PTS to try things out lol.

 

If I want to find out how I will do in endgame, I in fact do need a 50 on the PTS.

[Lucyfer_Infinity]

I don't think there would be this outrage if the medpack limitation only applied to hardmode/nightmare modes and was left as is for story mode Operations and the rest of the game.

 

People need medpacks in storymode? o_O

[Urkanan]

The flaw in your argument?

 

This is a game. For fun.

 

No one is going to enjoy playing through the exact same content with the exact same crafting skill just to provide BioWare with data.

 

 

I am not saying they should, I am saying it is pointless to cry about it when you have no clue lol.

 

BW's PTS policy is f.o.s., but that doesn't keep anyone from trying things out before they get their pants in a knot.

 

 

If I want to find out how I will do in endgame, I in fact do need a 50 on the PTS.

I agree, but my point that nobody has any business complaining about a change they haven't given the try. Not if they are over 5.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Urkanan

[Shecrazy]

I like Bioware but I'll believe they are "trying" to move away from a numbers based game when they stop releasing new tiers of gear that have massive stat gains. As long as stats are the primary scaling factor for a character - the game will be numbers based.

 

That would totally be true if it weren't for the fact that they ALSO released a new operation with the new tiers of gear that are currently kicking nightmare mode fully rakata / bis geared players a** on normal and hardmode.

 

The reasons they've stated for dying are player / control based not gear based. Hence they are moving in a skill based direction that gear will not make up for.

[Raeln]

People need medpacks in storymode? o_O

 

Yes they do.

 

There is a wide range of player skill present in a MMO playerbase, believe it or not.

[Raeln]

That would totally be true if it weren't for the fact that they ALSO released a new operation with the new tiers of gear that are currently kicking nightmare mode fully rakata / bis geared players a** on normal and hardmode.

 

The reasons they've stated for dying are player / control based not gear based. Hence they are moving in a skill based direction that gear will not make up for.

 

From my own experience in EV/KP hardmodes - how many of these nightmare level guilds are wiping to bugged boss abilities?

 

Still yet, as long as they are pumping out two tiers of gear with each new raid - the game will remain a numbers game.

[schnopsnosn]

I am not saying they should, I am saying it is pointless to cry about it when you have no clue lol.

 

BW's PTS policy is f.o.s., but that doesn't keep anyone from trying things out before they get their pants in a knot.

 

Why do you think that just because some people don't have a 50 on the PTS they have no clue?

As the changes stand right now I will reroll Marauder or cancel(because it just isn't fun anymore to level another character) because a good Marauder in Annihilation will have about 1/3 more DPS than my Sorc.

I rolled Sorc because the class is fun, I enjoy the Operations.

What I don't enjoy is crippling my Guild with sub-par DPS and basically getting forced to play melee to bring the required DPS-output.

[Quinlynn]

The people crying about re-usable med packs, or that med packs are unbalancing fall into several categories:

 

1. Too lazy to make the credit to buy them from a medical droid or GTN

2. Not in a guild and can't get the better prototype consumable med packs.

3. Too lazy to grind up Bio chem and make there own.

4. Too uninformed to know where to get them and how they work.

5. Don't know how to use them effectively and are hurt about losing a fight.

6. Has a pocket healer and wants an advantage over those that don't.

 

Nothing about how med packs currently work, consumable or not is OP'd or game breaking.

 

No emperical data exists that can prove it is one way or the other.

 

SWTOR is so bugged that people get stuck in combat allo longer than 8 seconds.

 

Med Packs are not so powerful that they affect the need for healers.

 

This is a stupid change, period. Only motivation for it is to make grinding take longer and cater to cry babies.

[Shecrazy]

From my own experience in EV/KP hardmodes - how many of these nightmare level guilds are wiping to bugged boss abilities?

 

Still yet, as long as they are pumping out two tiers of gear with each new raid - the game will remain a numbers game.

 

I wasn't referring to bugs in the old content... I was referring to the *new* operation (I've heard of no new bugs from people running these things on the pts) and on normal mode the *new* operation is kicking bis geared players a** and hard mode is providing a huge challenge.

 

Hard mode is can you say... hard?

 

the +6 ilvl difference from rakata to the latest tier will in fact make certain aspects of the fight easier but it *will not* make up for lack of skill which won't allow players to down these bosses going into hard mode and eventually nightmare mode.

 

Its no different than say bonethrasher on normal vs HM, you can gear through him on normal and have half the raid getting swiped half the time, but on hard if you do the same thing people will die you won't make the enrage timer and you'll wipe over and over and over.

[Urkanan]

Originally Posted by Urkanan

I am not saying they should, I am saying it is pointless to cry about it when you have no clue lol.

BW's PTS policy is f.o.s., but that doesn't keep anyone from trying things out before they get their pants in a knot.

Why do you think that just because some people don't have a 50 on the PTS they have no clue?

 

I never said that. Not like that. I said I find it funny how crowded this is compared to how empty PTS is, ergo many complain about stuff you don't need to be 50 for, bla bla bla, without rolling on PTS. Thats what I said.

 

As the changes stand right now I will reroll Marauder or cancel(because it just isn't fun anymore to level another character) because a good Marauder in Annihilation will have about 1/3 more DPS than my Sorc.

[...]

What I don't enjoy is crippling my Guild with sub-par DPS and basically getting forced to play melee to bring the required DPS-output.

 

I feel you; I wouldn't enjoy it either.

 

Having to play FotM for my guild to want me, or in order to feel significant, would be horrible.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Urkanan

[Masturomenos]

Dont worry guys about 1.2cause i heard in 1.3 everything from 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 will still be bugged. Bioware will have to over nerf and buff the classes they screwed up and just cause they pull random crap out thei butts everyone will now require a i7 processor windows 8 and 2x video cards to even play the game. I mean they cater to the one percent so what betr way then to **** over the 99 percent. Oh but to throw the 99% a bone well be able to log in and pay on a gameboy just cant play after we pay. Edited March 23, 2012 by Masturomenos

[Raeln]

I wasn't referring to bugs in the old content... I was referring to the *new* operation (I've heard of no new bugs from people running these things on the pts) and on normal mode the *new* operation is kicking bis geared players a** and hard mode is providing a huge challenge.

 

Hard mode is can you say... hard?

 

the +6 ilvl difference from rakata to the latest tier will in fact make certain aspects of the fight easier but it *will not* make up for lack of skill which won't allow players to down these bosses going into hard mode and eventually nightmare mode.

 

Its no different than say bonethrasher on normal vs HM, you can gear through him on normal and have half the raid getting swiped half the time, but on hard if you do the same thing people will die you won't make the enrage timer and you'll wipe over and over and over.

 

I'm not arguing over the perceived difficulty of raid content on a PTS server. Content at that stage of development is virtually untested. All it was exposed to before hand was internal testing, which is typically in an almost zero latency environment.

 

TOR seen good raid absorption numbers so far because their content was accessible. This reminds me greatly of WoW's Wrath and we seen what happened there when Blizzard tried to lift the "bar" back up for Cataclysm. I don't want the same thing to happen for TOR. Nonetheless, let Bioware release their SUPER_MEGA_DIFFICULT_BREAK_YOUR_SOUL nightmare modes that only about 0.05% of the playerbase will ever progress through before they are nerfed. In the end, the effort to do so is nothing more than a wasted pile of developmental dollars when the ROI is virtually non-existent for ultra-difficult content in an MMO.

 

I'm not going to say much about hardmodes other than I'll be alright with them as long as difficulty does not arise from Super Mario Bros mechanics and even more enrage mechanics.

 

Then again, I'm not one that tries to find my need for challenging gameplay in MMOs. I play MMOs as a social convention. I run with my guild for raids. I would be just as happy if raids didn't exist and end game content was smaller group content.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Raeln

[schnopsnosn]

I never said that. Not like that. I said I find it funny how crowded this is compared to how empty PTS is, ergo many complain about stuff you don't need to be 50 for bla bla bla without rolling on PTS. Thats what I said.

 

 

 

I feel you; I wouldn't enjoy it either.

 

Having to play FotM for my guild to want me, or in order to feel significant, would be horrible.

 

My Guild will take me even with my Sorc. It's just me that doesn't want to reduce the chance of success.

Like I said before, I'm frustrated at the nature of the changes. The Sorc-DPS-changes are purely based on PvP and whining people, I'm just surprised that Static Barrier didn't get nerfed...

Our Marauder with full Columi + Rakata Main- and Offhand can down the Alderaan worldboss in less than 5 minutes and he will probably do it even faster with the current patchnotes. On the other hand I will need over 6 minutes in 1.2.

I don't need to test the changes first hand, all I need to do is hammer the new skill-tree that I will have to use into my spreadsheet and get pissed.

Apart from Death Field I will lose my whole AoE-capability(Force Storm doesn't cut it with a cost of 100 Force and a channel-time of 6 seconds ungeared)

[Masturomenos]

Well t the people sayingthe ptr is empty but forums are full. I went on the ptr and straight up its so ****ed up what they did to certain classes i stopped testing. Why test for. Company who doesnt give a **** about your input

[Shecrazy]

So you took my point of it becoming skill based and not stat based you arguing for it being stat based and then put up that block of text.

 

So yes then you agree its not stat based? Either way I'm gonna go now.

[Urkanan]

My Guild will take me even with my Sorc.

 

Was just making fun of an overused excuse to justify FotM rerolls. May be your case, may not.

 

I still find this a fun concept: "If I don't bring the max to my guild i'm no use!" Very stressful life.

 

I play BH cause I like it and couldn't care less if I bring more or less healing. I have an excellent joke repertoire and no patch can nerf that (until they ban voice comm).

 

I agree with the rest of your post.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Urkanan

[schnopsnosn]

Was just making fun of an overused excuse to justify FotM rerolls. May be your case, may not.

 

I still find this a fun concept: "If I don't bring the max to my guild i'm no use!" Very stressful life.

 

I play BH cause I like it and couldn't care less if I bring more or less healing. I have an excellent joke repertoire and no patch can nerf that (until they ban voice comm).

 

I agree with the rest of your post.

 

I don't like losing or being the weak link.

Also it's not about FotM, DPS-balance seemed rather fine for PvE.

PvP is a different story and that's why we need individual skillsets(or at least changed skills) for PvP only.

As long as this is not introduced this game is bound to fail with their current direction.

 

Also like I said earlier, the BH-nerf is valid for PvE and it won't affect you that hard.

[Ellva]

Never even needed a health pack anyways