While you've been QQing...

[_Minmaxer_]

I've been practicing this spec http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201GhMRMdrzZZcMcRsMz.1

(Dark Resilience will be Efficacious Currents in 1.2)

 

I've never double-dipped force bending and now I am practicing not using it for DI at all. I've had several 200k/300k and 300k/200k games with this spec and I expect 300k/300k games to come once I am used to using it.

 

Yes, we lost our burst, but we still have more than enough tools to be useful and competitive. Instead of complaining about what we lost, look at what we have and learn to use it. If people are looking for post 1.2pvp advice feel free to post here, I'll do my best to help.

[Scav]

We had burst? Why nobody told me that? Edited March 19, 2012 by Scav

[Daellia]

21/2/18 is already a solid PvP spec, the change to Fadeout just makes it better. Can't really main-heal a warzone with that spec, but you can be a serious force-multiplier for your team. It's generally my preferred PvP spec.

[_Minmaxer_]

We had burst? Why nobody told me that?

 

I actually did if you check my post history. But in summary, Force Light-> Wrath Proc ->Recklessness->Chain Lightning->Deathfield.

[Terrestrial]

Just curious, not being critical. Is the message here that all Sorcs need to go healing to be competitive now? I've been wondering the same thing.

[Daellia]

Just curious, not being critical. Is the message here that all Sorcs need to go healing to be competitive now? I've been wondering the same thing.

 

I think it's more that we need to play to our remaining strengths, one of which is being able to flow between dps pressure and backup healer instantly at will (as with the above spec).

[Tadshackles]

I was always deep madness and went deep madness on the PTS and I can't notice the difference. They say its 4% less dmg... I can't tell. Ill just find a way to get 4% more WP out of my mods.

[_Minmaxer_]

Just curious, not being critical. Is the message here that all Sorcs need to go healing to be competitive now? I've been wondering the same thing.

 

I don't think so, I believe full madness or a lightning/madness hybrid that utilizes lightning barrage should still be viable. I hate dying and solo queue a lot so I like to include healing in my builds.

[Scav]

I actually did if you check my post history. But in summary, Force Light-> Wrath Proc ->Recklessness->Chain Lightning->Deathfield.

 

Let's see. Assuming RNG Gods are generous, this is 800 + 2500 (slightly more if ya spec higher in lighting) + 2500 dmg in about 5 secs. Field can't be repeated for 15 secs, Recklessness two ticks for a long, long CD, might get strike proc for chain.

 

Sorry, that ain't burst. That's slight AoE dmg that keeps healers honest by making 'em switch targets once in awhile.

 

PS: And this is, if the RNG Gods are smiling. There have been times I've waited for Warth proc for two entire Force Lightings channels. Not to mention those numbers are, if everything crits on light targets.

 

PS2: Your build is also assuming that the there is a DPS sorc on your team and knows how to bubble ppl when in need. Taking bubble out of any build and ya crippling your team. Ya are not a force multiplier.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Scav

[Daellia]

PS2: Your build is also assuming that the there is a DPS sorc on your team and knows how to bubble ppl when in need. Taking bubble out of any build and ya crippling your team. Ya are not a force multiplier.

 

Er...no it doesn't. His build with have Efficacious Currents in it, he stated that in the OP. He just talented Dark Resilience to show Fadeout in the build, since that calculator is using 1.1.5 trees.

[_Minmaxer_]

Let's see. Assuming RNG Gods are generous, this is 800 + 2500 (slightly more if ya spec higher in lighting) + 2500 dmg in about 5 secs. Field can't be repeated for 15 secs, Recklessness two ticks for a long, long CD, might get strike proc for chain.

 

Sorry, that ain't burst. That's slight AoE dmg that keeps healers honest by making 'em switch targets once in awhile.

 

PS: And this is, if the RNG Gods are smiling. There have been times I've waited for Warth proc for two entire Force Lightings channels. Not to mention those numbers are, if everything crits on light targets.

 

PS2: Your build is also assuming that the there is a DPS sorc on your team and knows how to bubble ppl when in need. Taking bubble out of any build and ya crippling your team. Ya are not a force multiplier.

 

My Chain Lightning hits for 4 to 4.5k on geared light armor targets. Death Field is about 3.5k. Properly geared sorcs with the wrath/CL hybrid would also be using stalker armor giving 3 recklessness charges on a lower CD. If I proc a wrath I can then pop recklessness, giving me 4 * 1200 = 4800 + 4500 + 3500 = that's around 13k of damage, assuming red buff and power relic, which every does when talking about burst. On poorly geared/pve geared targets my Force Lightning will tick for 1500 buffed.

 

Sure our burst requires a porc, luckily its a 70% chance on a high damage spammable skill.

 

I assume you are referring to the talented bubble that stuns on break. The one that beaks on damage, including dot ticks? A good sorc would pull the ally that is getting focused, instead of wasting a GCD to save 3k damage and giving a bunch of people resolve. Is the skill useless? No, but its highly overvalued.

[Scav]

My Chain Lightning hits for 4 to 4.5k on geared light armor targets. Death Field is about 3.5k. Properly geared sorcs with the wrath/CL hybrid would also be using stalker armor giving 3 recklessness charges on a lower CD. If I proc a wrath I can then pop recklessness, giving me 4 * 1200 = 4800 + 4500 + 3500 = that's around 13k of damage, assuming red buff and power relic, which every does when talking about burst. On poorly geared/pve geared targets my Force Lightning will tick for 1500 buffed.

 

Sure our burst requires a porc, luckily its a 70% chance on a high damage spammable skill.

 

I assume you are referring to the talented bubble that stuns on break. The one that beaks on damage, including dot ticks? A good sorc would pull the ally that is getting focused, instead of wasting a GCD to save 3k damage and giving a bunch of people resolve. Is the skill useless? No, but its highly overvalued.

 

I'm almost in full champ gear and those numbers are insane, I can do half of those. And for stalker gear, ya sacrifice too much for it. But it is damn nice on the other hand, just not nice enough for me to carry vital pieces of it. I'm not sure what ungeared ppl ya fighting but those numbers are simply insane.

 

 

Er...no it doesn't. His build with have Efficacious Currents in it, he stated that in the OP. He just talented Dark Resilience to show Fadeout in the build, since that calculator is using 1.1.5 trees.

 

Well, ya stated long ago that ya pve mostly. No efficient bubble on your team and it's GG in pvp vs ppl that know what they are doing. Especially, where ya have to split the team up for certain objectives.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Scav

[LinearCitrus]

Well, ya stated long ago that ya pve mostly. No efficient bubble on your team and it's GG in pvp vs ppl that know what they are doing. Especially, where ya have to split the team up for certain objectives.

 

Why wont that build have an efficient bubble again? It's been stated twice now

[Scav]

Why wont that build have an efficient bubble again? It's been stated twice now

 

oO

 

Oo

 

 

Ya need 2 points in barrier and at least one point in backlash to maximize sorc's unique ability. One of the best abilities for that class. W/ out those, ya might not win vs good players where it becomes a battle of attrition. Ya might get away w/out the backlash, if ya highly healing spec but ya damn sure notice the diff when having backlash when pulled in the middle of a mdps circle jerk.

[_Minmaxer_]

I'm almost in full champ gear and those numbers are insane, I can do half of those. And for stalker gear, ya sacrifice too much for it. But it is damn nice on the other hand, just not nice enough for me to carry vital pieces of it. I'm not sure what ungeared ppl ya fighting but those numbers are simply insane.

 

Under geared people got hit for 5k before the surge nerf, now its 4.5 to 4.8. I hit one person for 4.9something, but they must have been debuffed.

 

What do you lose for using stalker gear? You switch out the +Accuracy mods for Power/Surge mods (which you should do with Master/Mystic gear anyway). Then you get 35m snare and interrupt and 3 recklessness charges, best pvp bonuses we can get.

[Thexremstar]

Will be glad when 1.2 arrives live to many Sorcerer groups think that they can just Warzone lightning spams its a bit dum but effective I hope all the QQ'ers wake up and change there 1 button push spam, Its kinda boreing. There are effective specs that u just need to work out.

 

thanks for the Buff

 

Thexremstar

Scoundrel

Sawbones!

[Daellia]

oO

 

Oo

 

 

Ya need 2 points in barrier and at least one point in backlash to maximize sorc's unique ability. One of the best abilities for that class. W/ out those, ya might not win vs good players where it becomes a battle of attrition. Ya might get away w/out the backlash, if ya highly healing spec but ya damn sure notice the diff when having backlash when pulled in the middle of a mdps circle jerk.

 

Backlash is arguable, it's utility more than actual benefit. Lightning Barrier is useful, but it's only a 20% increase (basically 600 addition absorb per 20 seconds). Efficacious Currents is where the true efficiency comes from.

[HitmannD]

My Chain Lightning hits for 4 to 4.5k on geared light armor targets. Death Field is about 3.5k. Properly geared sorcs with the wrath/CL hybrid would also be using stalker armor giving 3 recklessness charges on a lower CD. If I proc a wrath I can then pop recklessness, giving me 4 * 1200 = 4800 + 4500 + 3500 = that's around 13k of damage, assuming red buff and power relic, which every does when talking about burst. On poorly geared/pve geared targets my Force Lightning will tick for 1500 buffed..

 

I play one of the top PVP sorcerers on the east coast RP PVP server and can confirm these numbers. 4.5k is high end crit damage on chain lightning, and 3.5k crit for death field. I used to be able to put up close to 6k prior to the surge nerf. Despite the numbers, I honestly don't think the spec warranted this dramatic of a change, and here is why.

 

First and foremost, while numbers may have needed tweaking, topping the DPS chart in a warzone is justified for sorcerers, because we are a glass cannon. If you spec lightning/wrath DPS hybrid, that's your primary role. A group with a good healer or two can typically survive a sorcerer's AOE onslaught, so its not an instant "I win" button or "total faceroll" like many described it. Any group, without a healer, stupid enough to let a sorcerer nuke away deserves to be cut down as it is very simple to neutralize the sorcerer by burning him down quickly or CC'ing him during his build-up. We can only put up numbers like that when there is a large buildup via wrath & recklessness, with a long cooldown. ~3k is a high crit on chain lightning without prep.

 

Secondly, we have undeniably the least defensive capabilities of any class with our light armor and lack of any sort of significant defensive ability (static barrier gives minimal protection. Its only saving grace is that it can be used on team mates, which makes it a nice ability). We survive by sprinting away, using our CC's to keep the enemy at bay, or by killing faster than our foe can kill us. We also have to rely upon group mates heals with this spec unless we can find a way to avoid getting hit for 3.5 seconds per cast. The spec is also fairly vulnerable in 1v1 battles, (granted, player skill and gear factor in, but against equally skilled & geared players), though not by any means helpless.

 

Finally, there are plenty of classes that can put up numbers similar to the sorcerer hybrid wrath spec in total damage dealt over a warzone, and far more classes that can out burst us especially on a single target. Just on the imperial side, DPS Mercs, Crit Juggs, and Snipers to name a few.

 

I personally feel that the hybrid nerf is simply lazy on the part of Bioware, and overreacting to the whines of ill informed players who would have people believing we can heal, DPS, tank, fly, shoot lasers out of our eyeballs, spontaneously combust and reform at the speed of light, all at the same time. This is by no means the "end of sorcerers" though as many say on this forum, they will survive since sorcerers are a very versatile class. I believe that versatility is the root of the complaints from most people and the reason why you see so many sorcerers/sages in warzones. Yes, this change will eliminate the AOE DPS niche for sorcerers, but MMO's change, and there's little we can do but voice our opinions on the forums or talk with our wallets by canceling the sub.

 

A much better solution in my opinion would be to remove the 20% damage boost from wrath, assuming I understand the reason for this change, being too much damage. Or, they could limit wrath as they are doing, but simultaneously boost force storm's damage so that it is actually useful for anything more than preventing a bomb from being planted. These would have retained our ability to fill an AoE DPS niche, which IMHO is a natural role for a sorcerer being a "glass cannon". After this nerf I would certainly advocate them giving the 31 point abilities a little love at the very least, as they are lackluster at best.

 

These are my simple and honest observations and suggestions as one who has played a sorcerer from launch focusing mainly on PVP. I admit my viewpoint on class balance may be off because I'm a decent player and typically excel at whatever class I play in MMO's, so I don't really know how much to attribute towards my skill versus class power.

 

I rolled a sorcerer because I wanted to shoot lightning, not because it was flavor of the month; there was no flavor of the month when I started playing. I currently use a 0/25/16 build. I've also been running this spec from the very beginning with only minor tweaks here and there to min/max. I am confident that the good sorcerers will survive this change since they are such a versatile class, and good players can adapt to changes.

 

As a side note, I have canceled my account, although not due to the sorcerer changes, its more for lack of PVP content and Bioware's socialist philosophy towards the game. They seem to have a strong desire to bring everyone down to a mediocre level. ( Example. The Ilum chest bans for those who "thought outside the box", and the warzone 4 metal valor cap.) Furthermore they use a downward adjusting mentality for balancing which is a very poor way to handle class balance and should be reserved for extreme cases of imbalance.

 

Think about how much better these changes would have been received if they had simply significantly buffed the weaker classes that needed some love.

 

Anyway, that's my 2 credits on the change. Take it as you will.

 

 

 

Jo'dan the Destructive

Sith Sorcerer

Imperial War Hero of Ven Zallow

Edited March 20, 2012 by HitmannD

[Terminmz]

I play one of the top PVP sorcerers on the east coast RP PVP server and can confirm these numbers. 4.5k is high end crit damage on chain lightning, and 3.5k crit for death field. I used to be able to put up close to 6k prior to the surge nerf. Despite the numbers, I honestly don't think the spec warranted this dramatic of a change, and here is why.

 

First and foremost, while numbers may have needed tweaking, topping the DPS chart in a warzone is justified for sorcerers, because we are a glass cannon. If you spec lightning/wrath DPS hybrid, that's your primary role. A group with a good healer or two can typically survive a sorcerer's AOE onslaught, so its not an instant "I win" button or "total faceroll" like many described it. Any group, without a healer, stupid enough to let a sorcerer nuke away deserves to be cut down as it is very simple to neutralize the sorcerer by burning him down quickly or CC'ing him during his build-up. We can only put up numbers like that when there is a large buildup via wrath & recklessness, with a long cooldown. ~3k is a high crit on chain lightning without prep.

 

Secondly, we have undeniably the least defensive capabilities of any class with our light armor and lack of any sort of significant defensive ability (static barrier gives minimal protection. Its only saving grace is that it can be used on team mates, which makes it a nice ability). We survive by sprinting away, using our CC's to keep the enemy at bay, or by killing faster than our foe can kill us. We also have to rely upon group mates heals with this spec unless we can find a way to avoid getting hit for 3.5 seconds per cast. The spec is also fairly vulnerable in 1v1 battles, (granted, player skill and gear factor in, but against equally skilled & geared players), though not by any means helpless.

 

Finally, there are plenty of classes that can put up numbers similar to the sorcerer hybrid wrath spec in total damage dealt over a warzone, and far more classes that can out burst us especially on a single target. Just on the imperial side, DPS Mercs, Crit Juggs, and Snipers to name a few.

 

I personally feel that the hybrid nerf is simply lazy on the part of Bioware, and overreacting to the whines of ill informed players who would have people believing we can heal, DPS, tank, fly, shoot lasers out of our eyeballs, spontaneously combust and reform at the speed of light, all at the same time. This is by no means the "end of sorcerers" though as many say on this forum, they will survive since sorcerers are a very versatile class. I believe that versatility is the root of the complaints from most people and the reason why you see so many sorcerers/sages in warzones. Yes, this change will eliminate the AOE DPS niche for sorcerers, but MMO's change, and there's little we can do but voice our opinions on the forums or talk with our wallets by canceling the sub.

 

A much better solution in my opinion would be to remove the 20% damage boost from wrath, assuming I understand the reason for this change, being too much damage. Or, they could limit wrath as they are doing, but simultaneously boost force storm's damage so that it is actually useful for anything more than preventing a bomb from being planted. These would have retained our ability to fill an AoE DPS niche, which IMHO is a natural role for a sorcerer being a "glass cannon". After this nerf I would certainly advocate them giving the 31 point abilities a little love at the very least, as they are lackluster at best.

 

These are my simple and honest observations and suggestions as one who has played a sorcerer from launch focusing mainly on PVP. I admit my viewpoint on class balance may be off because I'm a decent player and typically excel at whatever class I play in MMO's, so I don't really know how much to attribute towards my skill versus class power.

 

I rolled a sorcerer because I wanted to shoot lightning, not because it was flavor of the month; there was no flavor of the month when I started playing. I currently use a 0/25/16 build. I've also been running this spec from the very beginning with only minor tweaks here and there to min/max. I am confident that the good sorcerers will survive this change since they are such a versatile class, and good players can adapt to changes.

 

As a side note, I have canceled my account, although not due to the sorcerer changes, its more for lack of PVP content and Bioware's socialist philosophy towards the game. They seem to have a strong desire to bring everyone down to a mediocre level. ( Example. The Ilum chest bans for those who "thought outside the box", and the warzone 4 metal valor cap.) Furthermore they use a downward adjusting mentality for balancing which is a very poor way to handle class balance and should be reserved for extreme cases of imbalance.

 

Think about how much better these changes would have been received if they had simply significantly buffed the weaker classes that needed some love.

 

Anyway, that's my 2 credits on the change. Take it as you will.

 

 

 

Jo'dan the Destructive

Sith Sorcerer

Imperial War Hero of Ven Zallow

 

This is now copied and pasted in a special place on my computer. Terrific explanation and thoughts and I. Agree completely.

[Terrestrial]

I do as well. I can totally understand why players would cancel their accounts at this juncture. Intelligent-minded players want answers. When they get nerfs without explanation, subscriptions fall. THat is all there is to it.

[lukecwalker]

I play one of the top PVP sorcerers on the east coast RP PVP server and can confirm these numbers. 4.5k is high end crit damage on chain lightning, and 3.5k crit for death field. I used to be able to put up close to 6k prior to the surge nerf. Despite the numbers, I honestly don't think the spec warranted this dramatic of a change, and here is why.

 

First and foremost, while numbers may have needed tweaking, topping the DPS chart in a warzone is justified for sorcerers, because we are a glass cannon. If you spec lightning/wrath DPS hybrid, that's your primary role. A group with a good healer or two can typically survive a sorcerer's AOE onslaught, so its not an instant "I win" button or "total faceroll" like many described it. Any group, without a healer, stupid enough to let a sorcerer nuke away deserves to be cut down as it is very simple to neutralize the sorcerer by burning him down quickly or CC'ing him during his build-up. We can only put up numbers like that when there is a large buildup via wrath & recklessness, with a long cooldown. ~3k is a high crit on chain lightning without prep.

 

Secondly, we have undeniably the least defensive capabilities of any class with our light armor and lack of any sort of significant defensive ability (static barrier gives minimal protection. Its only saving grace is that it can be used on team mates, which makes it a nice ability). We survive by sprinting away, using our CC's to keep the enemy at bay, or by killing faster than our foe can kill us. We also have to rely upon group mates heals with this spec unless we can find a way to avoid getting hit for 3.5 seconds per cast. The spec is also fairly vulnerable in 1v1 battles, (granted, player skill and gear factor in, but against equally skilled & geared players), though not by any means helpless.

 

Finally, there are plenty of classes that can put up numbers similar to the sorcerer hybrid wrath spec in total damage dealt over a warzone, and far more classes that can out burst us especially on a single target. Just on the imperial side, DPS Mercs, Crit Juggs, and Snipers to name a few.

 

I personally feel that the hybrid nerf is simply lazy on the part of Bioware, and overreacting to the whines of ill informed players who would have people believing we can heal, DPS, tank, fly, shoot lasers out of our eyeballs, spontaneously combust and reform at the speed of light, all at the same time. This is by no means the "end of sorcerers" though as many say on this forum, they will survive since sorcerers are a very versatile class. I believe that versatility is the root of the complaints from most people and the reason why you see so many sorcerers/sages in warzones. Yes, this change will eliminate the AOE DPS niche for sorcerers, but MMO's change, and there's little we can do but voice our opinions on the forums or talk with our wallets by canceling the sub.

 

A much better solution in my opinion would be to remove the 20% damage boost from wrath, assuming I understand the reason for this change, being too much damage. Or, they could limit wrath as they are doing, but simultaneously boost force storm's damage so that it is actually useful for anything more than preventing a bomb from being planted. These would have retained our ability to fill an AoE DPS niche, which IMHO is a natural role for a sorcerer being a "glass cannon". After this nerf I would certainly advocate them giving the 31 point abilities a little love at the very least, as they are lackluster at best.

 

These are my simple and honest observations and suggestions as one who has played a sorcerer from launch focusing mainly on PVP. I admit my viewpoint on class balance may be off because I'm a decent player and typically excel at whatever class I play in MMO's, so I don't really know how much to attribute towards my skill versus class power.

 

I rolled a sorcerer because I wanted to shoot lightning, not because it was flavor of the month; there was no flavor of the month when I started playing. I currently use a 0/25/16 build. I've also been running this spec from the very beginning with only minor tweaks here and there to min/max. I am confident that the good sorcerers will survive this change since they are such a versatile class, and good players can adapt to changes.

 

As a side note, I have canceled my account, although not due to the sorcerer changes, its more for lack of PVP content and Bioware's socialist philosophy towards the game. They seem to have a strong desire to bring everyone down to a mediocre level. ( Example. The Ilum chest bans for those who "thought outside the box", and the warzone 4 metal valor cap.) Furthermore they use a downward adjusting mentality for balancing which is a very poor way to handle class balance and should be reserved for extreme cases of imbalance.

 

Think about how much better these changes would have been received if they had simply significantly buffed the weaker classes that needed some love.

 

Anyway, that's my 2 credits on the change. Take it as you will.

 

 

 

Jo'dan the Destructive

Sith Sorcerer

Imperial War Hero of Ven Zallow

 

 

^^^^^ 110% true, are you listening bio ware, these are the kind of post you need to be taking to heart, not all the qqers that whine about sorcs doing uber damage cause they don't focus the weakest class in the game and clump up in groups attacking the tank while a good sorc just annihilates there whole parts with cl, cause there not smart enough to spread out of the tiny 8m aoe range.

 

So dp sorcs need a nerf to aoe and cl, and hybrid? being a dps sorc i say hell yes, but a complete super nerf destroying the whole spec, in the process weakening the already lack luster dps of the 2 pure specs, and not buffing force storm, the 31 point talents, or loltning strike at all!!!????

 

This is just plain lazy, the class needs to be reworked, some small nerfs to aoe and cl, buff 31 point talents, buff lightning strike, and the lightning tree to make it at least somewhat viable, fix the god awful resource system, perhaps a long 3 min cd that gives force. And we really need a little love on the defense so we pretty much don't get tore up by almost every ac in 1v1.

 

Also the healing nerf is rediculous, what they need to do is less out put for other players but more survivability for the sorc, yes we get really high healing, but once again it's when we go against people just to stupid to focus the sorc healer instead of the jugg, currently with 1/2 bm gear a good, pt, assassin, or op can just take me out 1v1 no help, I can't even imagine how faceroll easy it will be to kill a sorc of any spec in 1.2 with the current changes.

 

They really need to work on some of the changes, and actually work on getting good player testing out, with rateds, and a combat log, before they just start dropping the nerf bomb, on the so called fotm, that baddies keep whinning about, while some of the most powerful classes are getting buffed or untouched.

 

Expect to just get face rolled by every scrub murarder and assassin in the game when 1.2 hits.

[_Minmaxer_]

I play one of the top PVP sorcerers on the east coast RP PVP server and can confirm these numbers. 4.5k is high end crit damage on chain lightning, and 3.5k crit for death field. I used to be able to put up close to 6k prior to the surge nerf. Despite the numbers, I honestly don't think the spec warranted this dramatic of a change, and here is why.

 

First and foremost, while numbers may have needed tweaking, topping the DPS chart in a warzone is justified for sorcerers, because we are a glass cannon. If you spec lightning/wrath DPS hybrid, that's your primary role. A group with a good healer or two can typically survive a sorcerer's AOE onslaught, so its not an instant "I win" button or "total faceroll" like many described it. Any group, without a healer, stupid enough to let a sorcerer nuke away deserves to be cut down as it is very simple to neutralize the sorcerer by burning him down quickly or CC'ing him during his build-up. We can only put up numbers like that when there is a large buildup via wrath & recklessness, with a long cooldown. ~3k is a high crit on chain lightning without prep.

 

Secondly, we have undeniably the least defensive capabilities of any class with our light armor and lack of any sort of significant defensive ability (static barrier gives minimal protection. Its only saving grace is that it can be used on team mates, which makes it a nice ability). We survive by sprinting away, using our CC's to keep the enemy at bay, or by killing faster than our foe can kill us. We also have to rely upon group mates heals with this spec unless we can find a way to avoid getting hit for 3.5 seconds per cast. The spec is also fairly vulnerable in 1v1 battles, (granted, player skill and gear factor in, but against equally skilled & geared players), though not by any means helpless.

 

Finally, there are plenty of classes that can put up numbers similar to the sorcerer hybrid wrath spec in total damage dealt over a warzone, and far more classes that can out burst us especially on a single target. Just on the imperial side, DPS Mercs, Crit Juggs, and Snipers to name a few.

 

I personally feel that the hybrid nerf is simply lazy on the part of Bioware, and overreacting to the whines of ill informed players who would have people believing we can heal, DPS, tank, fly, shoot lasers out of our eyeballs, spontaneously combust and reform at the speed of light, all at the same time. This is by no means the "end of sorcerers" though as many say on this forum, they will survive since sorcerers are a very versatile class. I believe that versatility is the root of the complaints from most people and the reason why you see so many sorcerers/sages in warzones. Yes, this change will eliminate the AOE DPS niche for sorcerers, but MMO's change, and there's little we can do but voice our opinions on the forums or talk with our wallets by canceling the sub.

 

A much better solution in my opinion would be to remove the 20% damage boost from wrath, assuming I understand the reason for this change, being too much damage. Or, they could limit wrath as they are doing, but simultaneously boost force storm's damage so that it is actually useful for anything more than preventing a bomb from being planted. These would have retained our ability to fill an AoE DPS niche, which IMHO is a natural role for a sorcerer being a "glass cannon". After this nerf I would certainly advocate them giving the 31 point abilities a little love at the very least, as they are lackluster at best.

 

These are my simple and honest observations and suggestions as one who has played a sorcerer from launch focusing mainly on PVP. I admit my viewpoint on class balance may be off because I'm a decent player and typically excel at whatever class I play in MMO's, so I don't really know how much to attribute towards my skill versus class power.

 

I rolled a sorcerer because I wanted to shoot lightning, not because it was flavor of the month; there was no flavor of the month when I started playing. I currently use a 0/25/16 build. I've also been running this spec from the very beginning with only minor tweaks here and there to min/max. I am confident that the good sorcerers will survive this change since they are such a versatile class, and good players can adapt to changes.

 

As a side note, I have canceled my account, although not due to the sorcerer changes, its more for lack of PVP content and Bioware's socialist philosophy towards the game. They seem to have a strong desire to bring everyone down to a mediocre level. ( Example. The Ilum chest bans for those who "thought outside the box", and the warzone 4 metal valor cap.) Furthermore they use a downward adjusting mentality for balancing which is a very poor way to handle class balance and should be reserved for extreme cases of imbalance.

 

Think about how much better these changes would have been received if they had simply significantly buffed the weaker classes that needed some love.

 

Anyway, that's my 2 credits on the change. Take it as you will.

 

 

 

Jo'dan the Destructive

Sith Sorcerer

Imperial War Hero of Ven Zallow

 

Well written post, but I have to disagree with several of your points. Some of this is in response to your post, other stuff is directed at sorcs in general.

 

I decided to play this game about two weeks before live after my friend convinced me to play. I knew I was going to play a sorc/sage before I knew anything about the game because I really enjoy playing casters. The first thing I noticed when looking at the skill trees was Wrath + Chain Lightning, my first thought was, "this is broken, there is no way this can work." But it did. Then I knew it would just be a matter of time until it was fixed. Not nerfed, fixed. I actually also expected a change that would prevent us from being healers and dps at the same time. Maybe in a future update.

 

Sorcs are far from glass cannons. We have all the standard ranged caster abilities: a shield(bubble), gap creator(force speed, overload),snare (force slow), CC (whirlwind), all of these are baseline. We get even more control from talent points. But wait, we can heal too! Not tiny lifetaps, but full on heals. So much inherent power in one class. People's problem? They don't know, or forgot, how to kite.

 

PVP content? I guess I still have the old-school thinking where you pvp because it is fun and challenging. A few different hutball maps which different obstacles would be fun, but I could play hutball, as is, all day long. I'd roam Ilum if I knew people would be there. Unfortunately too many people require incentive. What are you looking for in the way of "PVP Content"?

 

What is wrong with all pvpers being on the same level of gear? When I beat someone I want it to be because of skill and not gear or class deficiencies. If there is a certain amount of Rock/Paper/Scissors, I'm fine with that, as long as it's an uphill battle and not an impossible climb. I'd prefer more lateral customization so I could build my character as I prefer.

 

You can't always balance upwards, or else you have escalation problems. Sometimes you bring classes up, sometimes you bring them down, I expect changes to some of our abilities in the future, Lightning Strike being the main candidate. If it got a 100% damage bonus when used with Wrath I MIGHT use it. Creeping Terror is already incredibly powerful, 2 second root on 9sec CD is amazing. It would still be awesome if it did no damage.

 

The 4 medal change was a step in the right direction (I would have made it 5 or 6). Why should a pure dps cap at 8-9 medals, when I can get 11-12 and tanks can get even more? This way everyone can get the same rewards and others can do more for the epeen.

 

I'm looking forward to 1.2 so I can prove to all the naysayers that sorcs still have the goods.

[Ecimon]

First of all, I admire your attitude towards this nerf, this kind of threads are the ones we need, instead of crying our eyes out! Now I noticed that you kindly offered to give post 1.2 pvp advice, so I'm just gonna go ahead ask you a few things. I've been trying out this spec:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201GhMRbkZbcdMdRru.1

 

I mostly love it because of the decreased cooldown on Force Speed, and Overload/Static barrier improvements. None the less, I started to wonder if I'm actually gimping myself with this Lightning Strike spec, compared to yours. So here comes my questions:

 

-How do you think that this spec would do damagewise compared to the one you linked?

-What about mobility, considering the lack of utility talents in lighting, but gaining snare on affliction and getting rid of Lightning Strike spam?

-How do you weigh crit, surge and alacrity?

-Did you create the spec to be more about dps with good offhealing, or healing with a little bit of punch packed in?

-On what do you use your Wrath procs once Crushing Darkness is on cooldown?

 

I suppose it all comes down to preferences, but I'd very much like to hear your opinion on these questions.

[_Minmaxer_]

First of all, I admire your attitude towards this nerf, this kind of threads are the ones we need, instead of crying our eyes out! Now I noticed that you kindly offered to give post 1.2 pvp advice, so I'm just gonna go ahead ask you a few things. I've been trying out this spec:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201GhMRbkZbcdMdRru.1

 

I mostly love it because of the decreased cooldown on Force Speed, and Overload/Static barrier improvements. None the less, I started to wonder if I'm actually gimping myself with this Lightning Strike spec, compared to yours. So here comes my questions:

 

-How do you think that this spec would do damagewise compared to the one you linked?

-What about mobility, considering the lack of utility talents in lighting, but gaining snare on affliction and getting rid of Lightning Strike spam?

-How do you weigh crit, surge and alacrity?

-Did you create the spec to be more about dps with good offhealing, or healing with a little bit of punch packed in?

-On what do you use your Wrath procs once Crushing Darkness is on cooldown?

 

I suppose it all comes down to preferences, but I'd very much like to hear your opinion on these questions.

 

Against a good team, your damage is going to be very low, you no have no mobility and most of your damage requires cast times. Against a bad team you could wrack up a ton of damage with AoE.

 

Surge, Power, Crit, Alacrity. All my enhancements have Power on them, due to the surge nerf I switched a couple mode from surge to alacrity cause I was hitting DR hard. Crit I get from Recklessness and force Bending before Innervate, so its not terribly important IMO.

 

I decided on this spec because I play to win. I can take on either roll for the team, which is important as I often solo queue. In game like voidstar DPS is more important attacking, heals defending, etc. Its nice to be able to switch depending on what you need to do.

 

I only use Wrath procs on Crushing Darkness.

 

I really think any pvp sorc should be using Haunted Dreams, it will save your life way more than electric bindings or backlash. Madness also gives you deathfield, a high damage spell you can cast while kiting(jump, mouselook, cast, mouselook) and more mobility in general as you can cancel for lightning at any time for at least a partial effect. This is also the same benefit Innervate gives you, you always get something out of it.

 

Hopefully I answered your questions somewhere in the above points.

[Nodulo]

I do as well. I can totally understand why players would cancel their accounts at this juncture. Intelligent-minded players want answers. When they get nerfs without explanation, subscriptions fall. THat is all there is to it.

 

Agreed.

 

Oh while we're on the subject BioWare, why haven't I trained lightning strike from rank 1?

It looked important and even has skill tree comments about it, but alas it's not even on my action bar.