operatives and 1.2 (lolpatch)

[Chasidim]

I'm a good assassin and other good operatives are deadly. Your problem is you are a whining baby because you can't play operative like you did before the surge nerf. My gear is a mix of champion/battlemaster (maximized for power atm, soon to change things up) and another well-geared operative can still open on me and drop my hp to 40-60% in the stunlock before I can really fight back (unless my 90s cc break is up in which case its only 60-70%).

 

 

Anyone that thinks a stealth class capable of multiple 3-5k crits in a stunlock opener is useless is diluted, and it is you who needs to learn to pvp.

 

 

 

The next class I'm making is an operative FYI because I've seen what a non-retarded one can do.

 

yeah, i am a whiny baby. i can't play. in fact none of the 95 % operatives complaining about changes that make no f.ucking sense can't play.

level your operative and things will come out as Ich_bin said! You will be very disappointed.

Even if i open up on you (which is near to impossible since your stealth > our stealth) i might drop you to 60 percent, 50 percent or 40 percent. and now? i could restealth an hope for the awesome double-hs-proc. but if i restealth, you're out of combat either.

but anyway.

 

here is a list of things you could do, to not get owned by operatives with your assassin (lol never thougth i had to write this)

 

force shroud and rofl

sprint and rofl

stun, sprint and rofl

kill us while we try very hard. and rofl.

 

seriously, no assassin should be afraid of operatives if he has the least underatanding of his class. and our class. what's next, a sorcerer coimplaining that we outplay them in terms of utility?

 

 

just don't get me wrong. i like the operative. i get my kills and my wins and it's fun to play most of the time. we don't need more damage, we don't need higher burst, we need something, that get's us on level with other classes. we have NO utility in either pvp- and pve-groupplay. we can't do anything, any other class can do better, except our initial burst which is pretty useless in pve and (after the nerfs) no big deal in pvp.

all those ppl that get owned by operatives (especially when they play classes like assassins) should really consider, if it's not the operative that is so strong, but rather himself being bad.

[Dmasterr]

NEYips

 

The point is not that operative is not great in capable hands, it is that all other classes perform so much better in same capable hands. (except dps sorcs, i feel for these guys)

Edited March 21, 2012 by Dmasterr

[Cwild]

CWild isn't better than anyone. If you read his posts (over many threads in many other topics).... he is entirely dependent upon double HS'ing anyone to win. He does not attack guarded healers.... he does not attack high threat high damage targets (he just goes noob hunting).

 

Also he speaks of a 1v2 situation where he actually uses sleep dart.... which will only completely fill someone's resolve bar... and the chances that person has trinket available are very very high. If he had any brains at all he would flash first and then vanish/sleep.... which is still a generally bad idea.

 

Funny thing... the only person worse than him... is you.

 

Yeah i never attack guarded healers, or high threat high damage targets ever. I sit in the corner and pick off people at 40% and never even play the game. Get real man, just because I like having the option to use a double opener, doesn't mean it is all I do.

 

As for the 1v2 with flashbang, I personally save it for the healer if he happens to blow his trinket once I switch to him, which then will put me back on the marader. Sometimes in this game bro, you know you actually can't tunnel vision players, and have to find other ways to win. But don't listen to me at all, I'm awful, can't play, don't know the skills, cry when I log on, don't try to offer any help, don't give ideas, just tell people to quit the operative cause its useless.

 

Oh wait thats just you.

 

But with all that said, this game does get more boring and boring everyday that passes. Hopefully 1.2 will at least make it hang in there for a couple months. Logging in to do your pvp dailies and just play huttball for 5 hrs gets a little old. Hopefully rateds will help, who knows.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Cwild

[Cwild]

Saw this after my last post. You ARE NOT playing competent players if they break your 1.5s knockdown so you can use cloak to sleep dart them. Ridiculous.

 

Then just stay on the target you opened on, flashbang the healer which he will probably cc break, and vanish sleep dart him and reopen on the dps target you started on.

 

Can do a bunch of things. I was just giving an example, sue me.

[Cwild]

Aight i'm gonna say this, on my operative, i have absoloutly NO PROBLEM with ANY CLASS! often taking on 2 fully HP'd classes at once and succeeding. Now that is because i know exactly what i am doing and am using the class to it's fullest potential. I will not argue that there is nothing wrong with OP, ofc there is quite a few things wrong that need fixing and as it stands i am dreading these patch changes... Because i know it's a very select few operatives such as myself and there are others here, i will get alot of flaming for this but there will be the 1 or 2 operatives who are fantastic and understand what this class is capable of atm, it's because of op's like us who can burst down people in 3 or 4 seconds, restealth just as soon and pick our next target, are top of the WZ dmg every single time, and a massive average skilled player base that cry's everytime this happens that operatives are getting further nerfed in pvp. Yes i can do this, and alot of you will bash me for sayin this but it's the truth and most of you who say this isnt possible just arent playing the class properly at all! simple as that.

 

Damage wise the burst is still there it's still great, play your operative properly and you will be king of the WZ, it's a hard notion to grasp but if you can engage someone and press more than a button a second, you should be winning. but when 1.2 hits it's going to be a grim day. Enjoy the class as it is folks, as after the performance i've seen from most operatives/scoundrels and the packed out forums complaining about the class, all i can say is learn to play it better and perhaps you might have a chance when 1.2 rolls around. I know i'll be sticking with it even though i have a 50 marauder and a 50 sorc also.

 

Don't bother saying things like this, they will just tell you, you suck and are lying and "try doin that to a guarded healer" because they aren't having the same success as you and can't figure it out.

[Ich_Bin]

NEYips

 

The point is not that operative is not great in capable hands, it is that all other classes perform so much better in same capable hands. (except dps sorcs, i feel for these guys)

 

Exactly.

 

In every single one of these threads there is always at least one guy who abuses the discussion in order to tell everyone how skilled of a player he is. "Yes the class has lots of issues and is probably the weakest one but if you L2P and become as good as I am you can be viable." What's the point of such a statement? You have to compare the different classes in the hands of equally skilled players, everything else makes no sense.

 

Compare a well played Assassin to a well played Operative and you will be shocked about how much worse the Operative performs.

Noone has said that a skilled Operative player can't do well in PvP. The argument is that this skilled player could do much, much better with any other class.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Cwild]

Exactly.

 

In every single one of these threads there is always at least one guy who abuses the discussion in order to tell everyone how skilled of a player he is. "Yes the class has lots of issues and is probably the weakest one but if you L2P and become as good as I am you can be viable." What's the point of such a statement? You have to compare the different classes in the hands of equally skilled players, everything else makes no sense.

 

Compare a well played Assassin to a well played Operative and you will be shocked about how much worse the Operative performs.

 

But we know this already...it's been like this in every *********** game known to man. Thats why there are options of classes..

 

All this balancing 3 months in is ruining this game. This is exactly what WoW did which made a lot of active wow players quit simply because the game changes soo much soo fast.

 

My two irl buddies havnt logged on this game in about 4 days, we went gambling 2 nights ago and I asked if they quit, they said why bother playing that game that is doing the same thing wow is doing in less time, giving everyone everything and changing classes often.

 

It got me thinking, thats what us leave wow, and they were right, it's happening pretty quick.

 

EDIT: There is always a class in an MMO that is worse then the others, but can still perform. Then it gets buffed, then it becomes too good, then it gets nerfed again, then they take away skills, then they give you skills, then they take away skills...and then you don't even have the same class you signed up to play as cause they changed it too much.

 

Example) Ret paladin...plays no where near how it did when it was originally introduced, which some people actually liked...the game changed it so much.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Cwild

[Yukimure]

I play a Shadow on Thana Vesh and can attest that a dps operative is in no way, shape, or form close to as good as us. I am probably the most well known and possibly skilled shadow on our server and have fought numerous times with our best operatives and even after explaining my weaknesses to them over ventrilo and trying to help them become more competitive they are unable to come close to defeating a kinetic shadow build.

 

Shadows have far more utility in that you can literally duo a large group of people with a pocket healer because you can shield them on top of your insane amounts of interupts and control of the field.

 

Shadows have far more survivability due to resilience, which basically makes you immune to all cc and even most forms of damage for 5 seconds on a 45 second cd. Battle readiness heals you 10% on use and lowers the trigger cd on the heal from combat technique, which while isn't that great is still some free healing at no cost to you on a 2 minute cd. Not to mention most people don't seem to know how to save a cc cd for throw so you heal 12% roughly every 10-15 seconds that is uninterpretable.

 

Shadows have increased uptime in damage due to talents which regenerate their force 30% quicker, which is the sole reason I went this spec very quickly. This talent along with 100% crit on project is what makes the kinetic tree so powerful. You don't have to ever worry about your resources.

 

Shadows do not have as much burst while in the kinetic build, but they do have much, much better consistency. They are also able to spam resource abilities much more frequently due to the higher resource regeneration. While burst in many mmos has typically made classes very good, ops have the burst in the beginning, which is not as good as being able to set it up at any given point through build up of abilities. The previous statement of any given time meaning outside their 2 minute vanish cd that more than likely wont wont work because by then my resolve is either full or I am able to easily counter it with a cc break or class ability like resilience.

 

Operatives are far from being a balanced class compared to various other classes in its current state. From my experience as the game is pre 1.2 I would say the greatest threats are Sentinels / Marauders, pyro and tank PT / Vanguards, tank Assassins / Shadows, and healer Commandos / Mercs. This all being from a shadows stand point mind you.

 

Apologize for my grammar as I've just gotten back from a long day at work and am ready to hit the zzz's.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Yukimure

[Ich_Bin]

(removed wall of text)

 

Very well said, Yukimure, thank you for your insightful post. I can say that it reflects my own experiences almost 100%.

I especially like this statement:

While burst in many mmos has typically made classes very good, ops have the burst in the beginning, which is not as good as being able to set it up at any given point through build up of abilities.

as I think this is something that most players are not taking into account when they compare the two classes.

[Warkyd]

(Example) Ret paladin...plays no where near how it did when it was originally introduced, which some people actually liked...the game changed it so much.

Ret palys were changed because their damage was pure luck, seal of fortune, and had no skill or input from the player. Youve mentioned the worst possible example in MMO history, congratulations, you failed worse then bioware has combining ME3 ending and the 1.2 debacle.

[Bocherel]

Then just stay on the target you opened on, flashbang the healer which he will probably cc break, and vanish sleep dart him and reopen on the dps target you started on.

 

Can do a bunch of things. I was just giving an example, sue me.

 

Well, to be fair you really did chose the worst example

[Batslav]

ops rly needed lil bit of nerf but what they did was to make them kill targets a bit slower by chain CCing which is even worse coz ppl die w/o beign able to a hit single time

 

now they nerf the nerf xD

[sensiblepoast]

all this modding is well know. bis-gear is well know, your mighty smuggler didn't invent something new. still he won't threeshot you, if you are either a bit geared or not absolutly terribad. and if you sir get threeshot by a smuggler, you sure are one of the best on your server. yeah. i bet.

 

Hey maybe his server is full of dunces.

 

Or he's playing a marauder / sentinel and the elitism they ooze has made it to his brain.

Edited March 21, 2012 by sensiblepoast

[sensiblepoast]

The good Smugglerrs on my server have 2 piece rakata gear rest BM and can 100-0 anybody with 700 expertise in heavy armor from just the opener -> vanish re-open -> dead. If you dont have access to PvE / dont know how to do this then you missed out on the OPness come 1.2 sry.

 

100-0 is a bit of an exageration. 100-20 is more like it, but then they only need a couple of slashes to finish you off no matter what you do. So, no, while you may have not died in the 2 stuns you were pretty much condemned.

Edited March 21, 2012 by sensiblepoast

[Yukimure]

I will agree they needed a nerf back when the game was launched and people literally did kill you before you got up from the floor plant. Currently an Op is not a great concern to many classes except the light armored ones. The one that comes to mind is the sorc, which just happens to probably be the most played class at this time and probably why Bioware is nerfing ops once more.

 

What I'd like to see happen to ops is a slight damage allocation change. What I mean by this is reduce the damage of the higher burst abilities and give the damage to the more spam-able abilities like overload shot to make it useful. This makes the class more consistent and viable in both pvp and pve. The changes that are occuring now would even be fine if they just gave you something in return to make you more viable, whether it be survivability or if they increased your damage through other abilities or mechanics.

[Cwild]

Ret palys were changed because their damage was pure luck, seal of fortune, and had no skill or input from the player. Youve mentioned the worst possible example in MMO history, congratulations, you failed worse then bioware has combining ME3 ending and the 1.2 debacle.

 

haha i guess you are right. I should of just said constant changes and balancing on blizzards part with homoginization to all the classes is what made me quit.

 

And Bio is making tons of changes so early and pretty consistantly, I can just see the same thing happening here. Maybe it will work out for the better, or maybe they will follow down the same path.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Cwild

[Yukimure]

Cwild, I feel you on the WoW class changes. I played a hunter from vanilla to Cata and that class has changed so much from patch to patch. WotLK comes to mind for most changes in a short time period that you had to completely change your rotations constantly that it made you almost want to stop playing until the class was done changing.

[Cwild]

Cwild, I feel you on the WoW class changes. I played a hunter from vanilla to Cata and that class has changed so much from patch to patch. WotLK comes to mind for most changes in a short time period that you had to completely change your rotations constantly that it made you almost want to stop playing until the class was done changing.

 

It just turns into, this isn't the class I signed up to play, but I've invested years into it so do I want to reroll, no I don't. But unfortunately sometimes it makes you want to quit.

 

 

I know from experience that a lot of people quit their shadow priests who have played shadow forever once they changed their dispel mechanics...it was just an intricate part of the game that was untouched for 7 years...then boom gone.

 

Same with fel hunter dispel, good players used it, it was strong, removed and the class then felt a little different.

 

I think too many changes are a bad thing...at least WoW kept the game in tact for a little while before giving everyone nerfs and buffs...bioware is 3 months in and loving every minute of it, it seems.

[arkzehhh]

This guy is right.

 

indeed

[arkzehhh]

Definitely will once i find out how to use an avatar as well. This forum has me a bit confused cant find the settings to change my pic or sig

 

 

 

Im sure you will in the year 3000 maybe more and meanwhile i will be laughing at you for still trying. So with that said have fun with your attempts. And btw most people who play operatives and post here arent looking for the ability to kill someone in 3" but rather how to have better defensive CDs gap closers and stuff like that that make all the other classes good.

 

Assasin's are just as squishy ( non - tanks. ) So the day there survivability is fixed, i'm guessing they'll also get round too you, if ever that is.

[Yukimure]

Btw Ich_Bin, I love your signature. I noticed it after I made the 2nd post and they had nothing to do with each other, but it seems we have taken notice the same thing.

[Shiroikage]

Assasin's are just as squishy ( non - tanks. ) So the day there survivability is fixed, i'm guessing they'll also get round too you, if ever that is.

 

Yes the difference is that assasins have three other options who work just fine First is pure tank second is Hybrid tank madness and last madness. We on the other hand only have concealment and healing. Healing is crap atm always compared to other competitive healing classes but its about to change in 1.2. The problem is what people do when they want to play dps? Id sooner cancel my subscription than reroll just because some wankers cant be arsed to fix the class...