GS - Dirty fighting picking healers apart videos

[jayfourc]

Healer aggro should be self-explanatory. Apologies for the short clips and low quality - using the free Fraps and my gfx card can't handle full-size cap w/o skipping.

 

 

 

 

 

I honestly think DF is the best spec for PvP (edit: for my playstyle preferences). Yeah, a SS can melt the Sorc (guarded, not moving, bubbled) just as quickly if not quicker, but I don't see that translating over to merc healers as easily. Plus the internal damage makes taking out tanks feasible. Yes, that merc made a huge mistake, not curing himself. So far, I haven't come across many that do.

 

Thoughts?

 

Edit:

 

I've been playing SS for the first time since hitting 50. Have to say, being geared up in full BM/rakata and anywhere from 550 - 700 expertise depending on what I feel like scratching makes a huge difference. I critted a cent geared sentinel yesterday in Huttball for 5.7K weapon damage. It was cent gear, but still, I felt like a champ being able to dish it out like that.

 

In the first video using adrenal bomb I think you can argue that the healer died in ~4 seconds. At least that is how long it takes for his HP to drop to start moving and drop to 0. Because he had guard and bubble, my openers never show up, and even Sabo charge gets eaten up by it. But, once wounding shots starts, it's too late for the healer to react. He tried to cast a self heal that I had distract ready for, but a teammate came in and interrupted for me.

 

That's the main thing I miss about DF right now. It takes 3 GCDs to set up properly, but it's easy for your target to not notice and once you get rolling it's like rolling down on them in a freight train - as long as my target isn't an Op or Merc healer that can cleanse the dots.

Edited April 1, 2012 by jayfourc
Title change

[Loubbo]

In one word, "Cleanse". I always sigh and shake my head when I see a Dirty Fighting/Lethality spec on my Scoundrel. With a single ability on a 5s cd I literally nuder your damage. I will not argue that it's good against casuals, however, as soon as you play against someone who actually uses the abilities given to them it's another story. Right now DF/Leth is simply too easy to counter, especially for the DF that puts a giant target over your head that says "Hey! Time to Cleanse". Edited March 19, 2012 by Loubbo

[jayfourc]

Agree completely. In a 1 v 1 against an operative healer, I should be next to useless. It's "neuter" btw.

 

But unlike 80% of the people out here, I don't play wz's to duel and I'm not trying to assert that GS's, or DF spec, is OP and can "zomg roflstomp everyone in every situation". No class/spec should or can do that. You say cleanse negates DF, but I say LoS (which everyone can do) negates SS/MM. Opinion and playstyle preferences decide which is actually better at the individual level. If I only fought Mars/Sents, I'd go SS.

 

Just trying to illuminate the minds of people who haven't tried DF and think it's just sprinkling tasty Dipping Dots all over the place. In a group fight, I'm going to be the opportunistic ***** that hits while a healer is busy looking at his own teammates trying to keep them alive. Or if I'm on a different target, it's not always apparent to a healer looking at his raid screen who has been dotted up by me. My openers of hemo, shrap, and vital don't show up as significant chunks of a health bar - easy to overlook until it's too late. Sabo charge -> wounding shots -> quickdraw happens pretty quickly after that.

 

Also, sorc healers can't cleanse tech damage, so they're toast.

Edited March 19, 2012 by jayfourc

[Bivaccus]

Agree completely. In a 1 v 1 against an operative healer, I should be next to useless. It's "neuter" btw.

 

But unlike 80% of the people out here, I don't play wz's to duel and I'm not trying to assert that GS's, or DF spec, is OP and can "zomg roflstomp everyone in every situation". No class/spec should or can do that. You say cleanse negates DF, but I say LoS (which everyone can do) negates SS/MM. Opinion and playstyle preferences decide which is actually better at the individual level. If I only fought Mars/Sents, I'd go SS.

 

Just trying to illuminate the minds of people who haven't tried DF and think it's just sprinkling tasty Dipping Dots all over the place. In a group fight, I'm going to be the opportunistic ***** that hits while a healer is busy looking at his own teammates trying to keep them alive. Or if I'm on a different target, it's not always apparent to a healer looking at his raid screen who has been dotted up by me. My openers of hemo, shrap, and vital don't show up as significant chunks of a health bar - easy to overlook until it's too late. Sabo charge -> wounding shots -> quickdraw happens pretty quickly after that.

 

Also, sorc healers can't cleanse tech damage, so they're toast.

 

Very good read and thanks for the insight. Finally seeing some write up from someone that understands .I didn't know that sages can't cleanse. can Commandos and mirror?

 

Vital shot is immediately applicable again, but it sure is gimping your damage if your 2 dots gets cleansed and you have to reapply it again. Maybe it's less of a sore when 1.2 hits, with less energy problems.

 

Is shock charge cleansable?

[Junostorm]

Shock Charge, tech attack, is cleanse-able, Commando/Scoundrel only.

[Bivaccus]

Thanks. Guildi told me that sags can spec cleansing, but it costs talent points.

 

for scoundrel, cleansing cost 20 energy. In 1 on 1 it's not a probem for them, but in a more chaotic setting, it might suck too much energy. Gotta duel some scoundrel fellas to test.

[Junostorm]

Try a SS/DF Hybrid spec, really screws them up. I had fun for awhile using that spec in PvP/PvE.

[Bivaccus]

Tried it but I felt way too defenseless with that one.

 

They say it does a lot of dps, but that's pretty stationary.

[jayfourc]

Thanks. Guildi told me that sags can spec cleansing, but it costs talent points.

 

for scoundrel, cleansing cost 20 energy. In 1 on 1 it's not a probem for them, but in a more chaotic setting, it might suck too much energy. Gotta duel some scoundrel fellas to test.

 

Merc's cure is on a 5 second CD as well, and cost 16 energy. At the minimum, for an active cleansing op/merc healer opponent, you can try to force them to overload their energy/forget to heal friendlies.

[Bivaccus]

right now I'm trying 0/16/25. Pretty fun and healers almost never cleanse my stuff.

[jayfourc]

right now I'm trying 0/16/25. Pretty fun and healers almost never cleanse my stuff.

 

If you can, I would move 2 points into Steady Shots in the SS tree.

[jayfourc]

I've swapped to SS - going to give it a whirl for a week and will post a vid once my reflexes are caught up with the new mappings. Edited March 20, 2012 by jayfourc

[Bivaccus]

I'm doing the exact opposite. Have to get used to the new key bindings as well.

 

as SS I would go for 23/26/2. The slow of shock charge is a great asset, and your damage kinda says the same. You miss out on rapid fire an 30% more critdmg on SS,TS and QD, but SC makes up for that. You can keep sentinels and other meles more at a distance. Also ppl running away from you are slowed, which is a good thing-->getting less LoS'd. But you already know that as a heavy DF spec . You will notice you won't run out of energy as fast btw.

 

Btw I put my 2 point sin Dadly deals, so the 2 charges cost less energy. Up till know I don't know if it makes any difference.

 

2 points in steady shots, does that also increase hemorrhaging part of WS?

Edited March 20, 2012 by Bivaccus

[jayfourc]

It says it increases the WS damage, so I assume it affects all of the procs that WS causes. Training dummies and logs will help prove out exactly what it does.

 

I'm hesitant to try hybrid specs mostly because I feel like the synergies aren't really there past the 2nd tier. Energy use actually isn't that big of an issue for me. I'm used to rolling in premades that work together to dominate, and any time we come across another competitive premade, I have to try to burst down someone before I inevitably get focused down.

[Bivaccus]

In wzs you almost never use rapid fire, at least not me. Enemies just walk out of range or LoS. The other 7 points are for more critdmg on TS, SP and QD. shock and sabotage charge will make up for that damage, especially talanted.

 

 

I pvpd a long time in 31/7/3, and 23/16/2 gives me a lot of better control and synergy.

[jayfourc]

In wzs you almost never use rapid fire, at least not me. Enemies just walk out of range or LoS. The other 7 points are for more critdmg on TS, SP and QD. shock and sabotage charge will make up for that damage, especially talanted.

 

 

I pvpd a long time in 31/7/3, and 23/16/2 gives me a lot of better control and synergy.

 

Yeah I don't spec into the SS reset - I grab distraction instead to help with 1 v 1's. I did use SS yesterday to see how effective it was and it surprisingly did a lot of damage. Two in a row is overkill though because I'm never stationary that long.

 

While I agree that you make up some of the damage and gain utility / energy regen for prolonged fights, I prefer ramming as much damage as I can into CS, TS, and QD for more burst - having to deal with 2 more GCDs before I can move or burst down a healer doesn't fit with my playstyle.

[Bivaccus]

Yeah I don't spec into the SS reset - I grab distraction instead to help with 1 v 1's. I did use SS yesterday to see how effective it was and it surprisingly did a lot of damage. Two in a row is overkill though because I'm never stationary that long.

 

While I agree that you make up some of the damage and gain utility / energy regen for prolonged fights, I prefer ramming as much damage as I can into CS, TS, and QD for more burst - having to deal with 2 more GCDs before I can move or burst down a healer doesn't fit with my playstyle.

 

Yeah I love the just plain bursting down with 31/7/3, If they let you. If you are more in a dueling fight, shock charge is going to save your life. a lot of time because you can kit classes more(and they'll hate you for it). But yeah if you are getting jumped and the SC is still on CD it might be a bit of a sore.

 

With the new warzone coming up, the important areas won't have many objects to LoS. SO it's going to favor SS specs a lot.

 

Have you been able to kill an assassin/shadow tank in 1vs1 yet? THey jsut don't die and with their DPS gear they hurt you enough to kill you .

[jayfourc]

Yeah tankassins are a pain in the ***. For anyone they're fighting. I haven't really had a true 1 v 1 against one, but I think the internal damage from DF takes them down faster though.

[Zarzob]

Energy problem with DF, how do you solve it?

[jayfourc]

Energy problem with DF, how do you solve it?

 

2 points in Bravado, 2 points in Fighting Spirit and stack a bit more crit (sentinel champ enhancements help there). For bigger engagements I throw a shrap and vital around as energy regen tickers before I look for my primary target. Know when you should hit Cool Head and when it's a waste.

 

In my first vid you can see Fighting Spirit working as WS procs - really helps get you out of the super low energy dumps.

 

That doesn't prevent you from burning through your energy like crazy if you want to, but when I do at least it almost always results in a kill.

 

Pacing with flurry of bolts in between all the instant casts helps too, if burst is not absolutely critical in that fight.

Edited March 21, 2012 by jayfourc

[Riiquiem]

Energy problem with DF, how do you solve it?

 

http://www.swtor.com/de/community/showthread.php?t=363174&page=2

 

Read my post at the bottom. I never run out of energy.

 

Link to spec

Edited March 22, 2012 by Riiquiem

[Zarzob]

I had much better results following the strategy you have listed.

 

I wasnt getting the same results as far as deathblows or people dying. Yea i was doing 500k dmg and 600+DPS according to the scoreboard but I couldnt finish people off. They had so much time between dot ticks and wounding shots and when i became infuriated/impatient i ran out of energy.

 

 

I did find 1v1 was just silly, every class really had no chance. In group setting with healers, I couldnt do the required burst fast enough, especially switching targets.

 

 

I felt like a warhammer engineer, pretending i was useful because stats were padded.

[jayfourc]

I had much better results following the strategy you have listed.

 

I wasnt getting the same results as far as deathblows or people dying. Yea i was doing 500k dmg and 600+DPS according to the scoreboard but I couldnt finish people off. They had so much time between dot ticks and wounding shots and when i became infuriated/impatient i ran out of energy.

 

 

I did find 1v1 was just silly, every class really had no chance. In group setting with healers, I couldnt do the required burst fast enough, especially switching targets.

 

 

I felt like a warhammer engineer, pretending i was useful because stats were padded.

 

Glad to hear it was helpful and that it's not just me getting caught up in my own swag and spewing hot air

 

500K is pretty solid - should translate to kb's - what are your gear/stats?

 

 

I've been enjoying my 31/3/7 build a lot. The only part I'm a little sore about is not having the same tank-killing potential. Since tankassins and dps juggs are so powerful, I think this might put my team at a pretty big disadvantage come ranked. But, against softies who are incredibly bad at positioning and awareness, this is what happens:

 

[Tharryth]

I've been having some issues in PvE with my Smuggler and was thinking of trying some PvP for awhile. He's 31 atm. Could anyone point me towards a build that should work at that level? Edited March 26, 2012 by Tharryth