Lvl50 DPS Commado in need of advice

[Revrac]

So I made level 50 some time ago, but I'm only just getting into the HM & Ops part of the game as RL got in the way. I've got a build that's 100% gunnery, with the few remaining points in Assault, so that I can be as useful as possible on raids (yes, yes I know Assault is good for PvP but that just doesn't float my boat)

 

Being very new to MMOs generally, SWTOR being the first I’ve played, I’ve noticed that on Ops the margin of victory is wafer thin, and I’m still not 100% sure what I should focus on for secondary and third level stats to make me as useful a DPS as possible. Clearly my primary is Aim but do I look for Power, or Crit or Surge, or a balance of the three. All advice gratefully received.

 

For reference I'm getting 595-895 damage, 305 (ish) bonus damage, crit change about 26.5% and have just over 15K HP

[Khalirei]

So I made level 50 some time ago, but I'm only just getting into the HM & Ops part of the game as RL got in the way. I've got a build that's 100% gunnery, with the few remaining points in Assault, so that I can be as useful as possible on raids (yes, yes I know Assault is good for PvP but that just doesn't float my boat)

 

Being very new to MMOs generally, SWTOR being the first I’ve played, I’ve noticed that on Ops the margin of victory is wafer thin, and I’m still not 100% sure what I should focus on for secondary and third level stats to make me as useful a DPS as possible. Clearly my primary is Aim but do I look for Power, or Crit or Surge, or a balance of the three. All advice gratefully received.

 

For reference I'm getting 595-895 damage, 305 (ish) bonus damage, crit change about 26.5% and have just over 15K HP

 

Skill Tree

This is what I use, I have done my own tests and I can tell you there is a very very large difference when you're doing damage as gunnery vs assault. If your focus is PvE, you want to do gunnery hands down. You can put the remaining 2 points into whatever you want.

 

PvP

If you want to do pvp, you can do both right now, but the devs have already expressed their distaste for the gunnery "strategy" in pvp combat. It's easy, deadly, boring, and worst of all it's easily-counterable, so if one decent player that knows how to interrupt gets on you, then you're done. Which is not the case for assault spec. You have no comparable burst damage, but your dots and consistent damage is so overwhelming that you top the dps charts more than half the times.

 

Rotation

People that know trooper will tell you to start out with Full Auto. This is because you can proc a fresh full auto from gravity round as well as increased damage from doing grav round. You can start out like this, or ignore it and do whatever you want. When certain bosses drop their defenses and you only have a tiny window of DPS, I don't start with full auto, I start with gravity round.

 

Gravity Round > Gravity Round > High Impact Bolt > Demolition Round > Gravity Round > Full Auto > Hammer Shot > Gravity Round > Gravity Round > Whatever comes next.

 

You want to do Full Auto as soon as it's ready, but not if you're below 6-7 Ammo. Basically if you drop below 6-7, you just hammer shot until you're back up a bit. Thus you want more crit, because if you don't CRIT, then you don't get ammo back for casting gravity round.

 

So primary stat you want crit, then whatever. Surge, power, doesn't matter. Just take whatever your raid gear gives you. It's not like it makes a huge difference since you don't really get to pick exactly what you get. But do get some medic pieces. Like the daily rakata implants, they give crit and surge and help a lot with keeping up your ammo. Hopes this helps.

 

I have about 38% ranged crit, and 40% tech crit. Unbuffed.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Khalirei

[Revrac]

That's very helpful, if only because it re-enforces what I had guessed at. You're quite right that Assault is the only way for PvP, but I've got a dedicated toon for that. Cheers for the advice

[natehinn]

Here is my build, I am a somewhat hardcore raider, as much as you can be with 2 ops out lol.. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800McZMIkrRrdkkrzZ0c.1

 

Mines a bit different but thats it

 

i want to add something as well about off stats, and rotation. Off stats, power, acc, surge, crit is the order of importance for me. I crit often so I dont worry to much about keeping the stat maxxed out. But do remember, any accuracy over 100% directly debuffs the opponents defense, and is super important.

 

my rotation

 

Reserve Powercell> Full Auto or Plasma> Grav>Grav>Grav>Full Auto if procs>hammershot>POWER adrenal>Power Relic>grav>grav>DEMO>HIB>Full Auto>Hammer>repeat

 

 

This rotation is focused on using your procs, but most importantly NOT blowing your demo/HIB before you have max stacks, and AMMO CONSERVATION. You MUST, repeat MUST keep ammo above 60% at all times to keep your regen rate up. This rotation will have max damage, while keeping sustained damage throughout the entire fight.

Edited March 14, 2012 by natehinn

[JLapp]

Where your stats are now, I'd focus on crit/surge. Once you get crit to the 35% and surge to around 70-75% focus, then focus on power.

 

Accuracy IMO you really don't have to worry too much about. Most of your attacks are tech which has a base of 100% and enemy defenses aren't huge. Plus as you gear up the end-game PVE stuff throws way more accuracy than you need on gear.

[Sotaudi]

Skill Tree

This is what I use, I have done my own tests and I can tell you there is a very very large difference when you're doing damage as gunnery vs assault. If your focus is PvE, you want to do gunnery hands down. You can put the remaining 2 points into whatever you want.

 

PvP

If you want to do pvp, you can do both right now, but the devs have already expressed their distaste for the gunnery "strategy" in pvp combat. It's easy, deadly, boring, and worst of all it's easily-counterable, so if one decent player that knows how to interrupt gets on you, then you're done. Which is not the case for assault spec. You have no comparable burst damage, but your dots and consistent damage is so overwhelming that you top the dps charts more than half the times.

 

Rotation

People that know trooper will tell you to start out with Full Auto. This is because you can proc a fresh full auto from gravity round as well as increased damage from doing grav round. You can start out like this, or ignore it and do whatever you want. When certain bosses drop their defenses and you only have a tiny window of DPS, I don't start with full auto, I start with gravity round.

 

Gravity Round > Gravity Round > High Impact Bolt > Demolition Round > Gravity Round > Full Auto > Hammer Shot > Gravity Round > Gravity Round > Whatever comes next.

 

You want to do Full Auto as soon as it's ready, but not if you're below 6-7 Ammo. Basically if you drop below 6-7, you just hammer shot until you're back up a bit. Thus you want more crit, because if you don't CRIT, then you don't get ammo back for casting gravity round.

 

So primary stat you want crit, then whatever. Surge, power, doesn't matter. Just take whatever your raid gear gives you. It's not like it makes a huge difference since you don't really get to pick exactly what you get. But do get some medic pieces. Like the daily rakata implants, they give crit and surge and help a lot with keeping up your ammo. Hopes this helps.

 

I have about 38% ranged crit, and 40% tech crit. Unbuffed.

 

I agree with the concept of starting with Grav Round (GR). The idea behind starting with Full Auto (FA) is that subsequent GRs can proc Curtain of Fire (CoF), which finishes the cooldown of FA. Thus, if CoF procs on the first GR, you could fire FA then GR then be able to fire FA right away again.

 

The problem with that strategy is that GR applies a 10% armor debuff on a target (when spec'd to do two debuffs per GR). Likewise, when CoF procs, FA does 25% more damage. By starting with FA, you are starting without the CoF proc, which means that you are doing 25% less damage against 10% more armor. That means you will always do more damage starting with GR followed by FA than you will doing FA followed by GR, even if CoF does not proc.

 

In my opinion, it is better to start with GR and get a stack of 5 debuffs on the target (only takes 3 when properly spec'd). If CoF procs with any one of the 3 GRs, you can use FA right away in the hope that it will proc again. However while there is a fairly good chance that at least one of the three GRs will proc CoF, it cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds, which is four global cooldowns (GCDs). Thus, even if you get a CoF off the first GR, you will not get another before you apply all three GRs to get the full debuff. That means that you are often better off getting off all three GRs then using FA to get the maximum effect out of the FA. After you have all five armor debuffs, you can then switch to a strategy of firing FA anytime a CoF appears.

 

Thus, I agree with not starting with FA and I even agree with getting off multiple GRs first; however, I don't understand the logic of your rotation. If you have Demo Round, then you have at least 31 points in Gunnery, which means you should have Charged Barrel. When you spec for Charged Barrel (CB), you get a 6% buff to High Impact Bolt (HiB) for each GR you fire. This buff is consumed on use of HiB, but it can stack to 5. Thus, in your rotation, you are building a max of two CB buffs, meaning you are only buffing HiB by 12% then using it up, meaning you will have to reapply them from scratch. A full stack of 5 CBs will give you a 30% buff to HiB. That is a fairly substantial difference. Since HiB's cooldown is 15 seconds and since, unlike Assuault, there is no proc to finish the cooldown of HiB, that means it will take 10 GCDs before HiB is ready again. Why give up that much extra damage from HiB and wait 10 more global cooldowns before you can use it again rather than simply waiting for three more GRs and getting max damage from it?

 

Similarly, Grav Round can only apply four armor debuffs in two uses. That means that HiB is hitting 5% more armor than it needs to. Demo Round (DR) also does more damage per stack of the armor debuff, so you are both hitting less armor as well as doing more damage per Gravity Vortex (the debuff) with DR. By using DR after only two GRs (4 debuffs), you are doing 5% less damage with DR AND going against 5% more armor by not waiting at least one more GR before using it.

 

To me, the better rotation is this:

 

GR - GR - GR - FA* - DR - GR** - GR** - HiB (with Hammer Shot as necssary to manage ammo)

 

*Whether CoF proc'd or not.

** After the first FA on a fully debuffed target, any time CoF procs off of GR, insert an FA.

 

After the HiB, cycle GRs to rebuild the CB procs, firing FA whenever CoF procs and DR whenever it is off cooldown. When HiB comes up and you have a stack of 5 CBs, you fire HiB. Hammer shot is used to keep ammo above 60% to maintain ammo regen.

 

When you move to a new target, rinse and repeat. The only exception is that, unlike the armor debuff which is applied to the target, CoF and CB are applied to you. That means that you carry them with you to the new target if your target dies before you use them or if you need to move to a new target before the last one dies. If that happens with CoF up, you can start with FA, especially if you are concerned about losing the buff before you can apply GRs. While the target is not debuffed yet, it is better in this case not to risk losing the 25% damage boost from CoF than to wait. The CB buff will refresh with each use of GR, so it will not expire on you as long as you get at least one GR off. That also means that, assuming you bring a stack of 5 CBs with you, you can fire HiB as soon as you get a full stack of armor debuffs on the target rather than waiting for all 5 GRs as you would in a fresh fight. If you start with less than 5, you can fire HiB as soon as there is a full armor debuff and full stack of CBs.

 

Thus, my proiority list would be:

 

1. GR to stack armor debuffs and CB buffs
   
2. FA after a full stack of armor debuffs whether CoF has proc'd or not then any time CoF procs thereafter.
   
3. FA can be used first on a new target only if there is a risk of CoF expiring.
   
4. DR after a full stack of armor debuffs and any time it is off cooldown thereafter.
   
5. HiB any time it is off cooldown and there is a full stack of armor debuffs and a full stack of CBs present.
   
6. Hammer Shot to maintain ammor regen.
   
7. Other abilities as appropriate.
   

Edited March 14, 2012 by Sotaudi

[medouneu]

Here is my build, I am a somewhat hardcore raider, as much as you can be with 2 ops out lol.. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800McZMIkrRrdkkrzZ0c.1

 

Mines a bit different but thats it

 

Thanks for sharing your build, but I have to disagree on a number of points. Since you and the OP are both interested in Ops and HMs, I would not bother with Concussive Force, Tenacious Defense, or Cover Fire. While these are all wonderful abilities to use in PvP, they have little use in endgame PvE. Also, you should get rid of Soldier's Endurance and replace it with the extra Accuracy from Target Lock. After all, your job is to do DPS, and you should not sacrifice that for survivability in PvE.

 

For PvE, I much prefer Khalirei's build (see above).

 

 

i want to add something as well about off stats, and rotation. Off stats, power, acc, surge, crit is the order of importance for me. I crit often so I dont worry to much about keeping the stat maxxed out. But do remember, any accuracy over 100% directly debuffs the opponents defense, and is super important.

 

my rotation

 

Reserve Powercell> Full Auto or Plasma> Grav>Grav>Grav>Full Auto if procs>hammershot>POWER adrenal>Power Relic>grav>grav>DEMO>HIB>Full Auto>Hammer>repeat

 

I'm not sure why you're waiting to get off 5 whole Grav Rounds before using Demolition Round or HIB. Remember, Gravity Surge gives you an extra gravity vortex with each Grav Round, so after 2 Grav Rounds, you've already got 4 gravity vortexes, and since you want to use Demolition Round and HIB as often as possible, it's not worth waiting for even one more Grav Round just to get that 5th gravity vortex (unless fighting a boss, in which case the whole party benefits from your vortexes and you want all 5 up as quickly as possible).

 

True, you're only getting 2 stacks of Charged Barrel out of a possible 5 on your first HIB, but you still want to start getting those off early and often. And in a protracted fight, you'll be getting 3-5 stacks of Charged Barrel on your future HIBs.

 

I like that you're including an Adrenal (15-sec duration) and Relic (20-sec duation) in your rotation, but would probably place these immediately before your first HIB and Demo Round. That way, there's a good chance one or both buffs will still be up when you proc a +25% Full Auto. Also, verify that you're getting full benefit from stacking two Power buffs. I know that stacking two Surge buffs or two Critical buffs gives very little additional benefit, but have not tried two Power buffs.

 

It's also good you're using Reserve Powercell, but I wouldn't lead with it. Better to use it slightly later on a non-instant skill after you've spent a couple ammo, so that when you use it, not only does your attack not cost ammo, but you're also recharging ammo.

 

I might suggest something like this instead for most fights (adding in Full Auto whenever it procs and HIB & Demo Round are on cooldown):

• Grav Round -> Grav Round -> HIB -> Demolition Round -> Grav Round -> Reserve Power Cell w/ Full Auto -> Grav Round -> Grav Round -> etc.

 

And this for boss fights:

• Grav Round -> Grav Round -> Grav Round -> Crit/Surge Relic -> Power Adrenal -> Reserve Power Cell w/ Full Auto (if +25%) -> HIB -> Demolition Round -> Grav Round -> Grav Round -> etc.

Be sure to hold off on this particular Full Auto until you get the +25% proc - when stacked with your Relic & Adrenal, it's deadly.

 

 

This rotation is focused on using your procs, but most importantly NOT blowing your demo/HIB before you have max stacks, and AMMO CONSERVATION. You MUST, repeat MUST keep ammo above 60% at all times to keep your regen rate up. This rotation will have max damage, while keeping sustained damage throughout the entire fight.

 

I mostly agree with you here. However, don't forget about your buffed Recharge Cells. Some people hang onto this for emergencies, but I actively plan to use it early and as often as I can. Go ahead and burn hot early on, and then pop Recharge Cells when you're down to around 3 ammo. This will put you back up to nearly maximum ammo and high recharge rate almost instantly. At this point, you can start weaving in Hammer Shot as needed to stay about 60%, until your next Recharge Cells is nearly available. This allows you to do more damage in a shorter timeframe than you could do otherwise.

[Revrac]

Thanks for the commentary here, as you can chuck in hammer shots almost simultaneously to GR, and these regen power, I tend to use GR and HS together, especially since using plasma cells and HS together can put another DoT on the target, which in huge boss fights can be vital. I like the idea of using power adrenals, didn't even know such a thing existed.

 

One question, given that a crit/surge relic lasts for 30 seconds why hold off using it till HiB? I tend to hit the relic, hit the instant shot skill (can't remember it's name), then get into GR the monkeys out of the target, in the basis that GR does so much damage when it crits. Am I missing a trick here?

[Revrac]

Sorry, have just noticed that everyone has referred to using HS regularly...read in haste, repent at lesuire

[Euphymie]

There are my rotations:

 

Ammo float - This is in between reserve cell. You should never run out of ammo if you weave HS.

GR - HS - GR - HS - FA - GR - HS - GR - FA - HS - GR - DR - HIB

 

burn phase - should burn all your ammo, save for last 10% of bosses

GR - GR - FA - HS - GR - GR - GR - DR - HIB

 

Reserve cell burst - used at the beginning or when Reserve cell is up. You burn exactly enough ammo so that reserve cell brings you back up to full.

GR - GR - FA - GR - Reserve Cell - GR - FA - HS - GR - HS - DR - HIB

 

So I start with rotation, blow reserve cell, and then float, once reserve cell is back up, reserve cell burst rotation, then float, and repeate reserve cell burst and float until the boss is under 10% then you burn and blow your other 2 offensive cool downs.

[medouneu]

Thanks for the commentary here, as you can chuck in hammer shots almost simultaneously to GR, and these regen power, I tend to use GR and HS together, especially since using plasma cells and HS together can put another DoT on the target, which in huge boss fights can be vital.

 

Are you Gunnery spec or Gunnery/Assault hybrid? If Gunnery spec, I'm not sure why you're using Plasma Cells. If you switch to Armor-piercing Cell and use the Cell Charger skill, any ammo regen problems you're having will disappear. I rarely if ever use Hammer Shot to regen, in spite of having 15% Activation Speed. In boss fights, I can dish out non-stop damage for long periods and never reach for HS (of course, I use Recharge Cells and Reserve Powercell frequently).

 

 

I like the idea of using power adrenals, didn't even know such a thing existed.

 

Sure, just check with a biochem. They can make these, although they can be rather expensive. They last 15 seconds and have a 3-minute cooldown, but are much more powerful than relics.

 

One question, given that a crit/surge relic lasts for 30 seconds why hold off using it till HiB? I tend to hit the relic, hit the instant shot skill (can't remember it's name), then get into GR the monkeys out of the target, in the basis that GR does so much damage when it crits. Am I missing a trick here?

 

Actually, they only last 20 seconds, and if you're also using an adrenal, that's only 15 seconds. If you're fighting a boss, it's best to get 5 gravity vortexes up, for both your own benefit and that of your party, so you're delivering 5-10% extra damage on top of everything else. At that point, hit your relic (and adrenal, if applicable) and also hit some of your most damaging skills: Demo Round and procced Full Auto do much more damage than Grav Round, ESPECIALLY if they crit (+30% bonus crit damage with the Deadly Cannon skill).