Fun at 50!

[Spymaster]

Oh give me a break, you're completely dense. Good luck figuring it out.

 

There's nothing to "figure out"... I took what the OP wrote, and read it. That's what you should have done, instead of figuring out what strawman arguments you could make.

[sparkyboyyoyyo]

My vanguard hit 50 yesterday without any champ bags and it was a gigantic pain intially as i was rocking sub par gear and went from being king of the hill to nothing. I had to re-evaluate how best to contribute, I considered myself expendable used taunts every time they were up and always had guard going. After a few warzones confidence returned and I was contributing, not because I am the strongest or best player but because I did all I could to work for the team.

 

i die fairly fast when a BM or 2 jump on me but hey thats the way it is, a few more warzones and I will have mostly cent with a few peices of champ and im halfway to finishing my illum weekly.

 

The biggest issue is the game isnt as it was 10-49 and people get shocked, I find the matches MUCH closer though even on loss.

 

Fantastic attitude to hitting the lvl 50 bracket. I applaud you, sir.

 

I know it's tough from being able to pull off top scores in the lvl 1-49 bracket to being relegated to only a supporting role, but this is a very mature way to look at being new to lvl 50 pvp. Not only will you get more medals (making gearing up faster) doing this, but your team will be infinitely better off than with a fresh lvl 50 who blatantly charges into the thick of the action with no survivability or utility.

 

Have some patience, learn the ins and outs of the pvp matches at lvl 50, and you'll soon notice yourself climbing your way up the leaderboards.

Edited March 6, 2012 by sparkyboyyoyyo

[Spymaster]

My vanguard hit 50 yesterday without any champ bags and it was a gigantic pain intially as i was rocking sub par gear and went from being king of the hill to nothing. I had to re-evaluate how best to contribute, I considered myself expendable used taunts every time they were up and always had guard going. After a few warzones confidence returned and I was contributing, not because I am the strongest or best player but because I did all I could to work for the team.

 

i die fairly fast when a BM or 2 jump on me but hey thats the way it is, a few more warzones and I will have mostly cent with a few peices of champ and im halfway to finishing my illum weekly.

 

The biggest issue is the game isnt as it was 10-49 and people get shocked, I find the matches MUCH closer though even on loss.

 

I agree with sparkyboyyoyyo.

 

Good post up there!

[Draeb]

@Spymaster

 

Those who are smart prepare for the worst by gearing up and expect to learn new things in the 50 bracket. It's a reboot. It's leaving highschool and entering college. You're no longer big man on campus. This guy went in thinking it's going to be the same, not in the terms of DPS, but in terms of high level play. He showed no respect to what it would mean to not be geared for the occasion. Was he expecting to wing it?

 

 

Reread the underlined part and tell me if that was specifically referring to the OP or generalizing. "You're" in this sense was a generalizing term. I didn't shift focus until I pointed the focus at him with "This guy". It completely went over your head and because of it we are making this a discussion about what I said instead of what the OP said.

 

 

Which makes you hypocritical in your own words because no one said anything about the OP wanting to be the best except for you. And here we are, doing another circle and you still not saying anything.

 

 

 

 

It's college ball going into the NFL. It's faster paced. He went in underprepared. I have no sympathy for him because I geared myself up before even setting foot into those WZs.

 

 

Are you really as dense to not see that?

 

 

 

read yellow

Edited March 7, 2012 by Draeb

[Draeb]

There's nothing to "figure out"... I took what the OP wrote, and read it. That's what you should have done, instead of figuring out what strawman arguments you could make.

 

 

 

No you took a biased approach to what he said and are still favoring it. How do I know this? Because you're defending and not thinking objectively of what's being said. You haven't made any points except for your misunderstanding of what my first response was. So, instead of challenging my point you play a preschool game of ring around the rosy with reading comprehension but, you still don't see it.

 

Like I said, dense.

 

 

And Oh, "best" would mean the "best". Success does not mean being better than anything except for being unsuccessful...

 

Man, some of you guys can be so thickheaded.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Draeb

[Draeb]

I agree with sparkyboyyoyyo.

 

Good post up there!

 

 

 

Well thought out response there, "Spyglass".

[Spymaster]

You haven't made any points except for your misunderstanding of what my first response was.

 

LoL.... wrong. I made my point on page one before I even responded to you. You should maybe, you know, read the thread or something. Might help you make a valid point.

 

There is nothing to "challenge" in your point because it's completely irrelevant to the topic. If a person wants to get the same results on the leader boards in the 50 bracket that he got in the lower levels, then you'd be right.... why would I challenge that? However, since that's not what the OP asked for, your point has no impact on this thread. It's nothing but a Strawman argument, and that's why I called you on it.

 

you've expected to have the same success that you did before.

 

Read this ^

 

My original response to your strawman was valid. He never asked to have the same results, yet you attacked him as if that's what he had said. Your big man on campus remark was along the same lines, you don't tell someone they aren't the big man on campus anymore if you don't assume that's what they expect. That's the problem here, your entire argument against the OP is based on assumption.

 

You're backing down from it now, because you were wrong.

 

 

Well thought out response there, "Spyglass".

 

Funny the way you came in here calling people names and yet you're the one taking this whole thing personally. Who's being defensive again?

Edited March 7, 2012 by Spymaster

[Numerii]

And yet there's countless threads explaining how to get geared for lvl 50 pvp but people still think going into a WZ with 10k hp is ok. Heck even with 12k, you're not all that ok but it'll do.

 

And yes, it's not very hard to get Cent. gear.

 

12k is enough if you know what you're doing. I hit 50 4 days ago, atm I sit at 12.8k unbuffed HP, but I also have 520 expertise on that gear. I've led scoreboards as well as scoring drives on a few occasions already. I'm still rather squishy under focus fire, but anyone who dismisses me for simply having 12k HP will usually only do so once.

 

4 days of casually grinding WZs isn't that bad either.

[Draeb]

LoL.... wrong. I made my point on page one before I even responded to you. You should maybe, you know, read the thread or something. Might help you make a valid point.

 

There is nothing to "challenge" in your point because it's completely irrelevant to the topic. If a person wants to get the same results on the leader boards in the 50 bracket that he got in the lower levels, then you'd be right.... why would I challenge that? However, since that's not what the OP asked for, your point has no impact on this thread. It's nothing but a Strawman argument, and that's why I called you on it.

 

 

 

Read this ^

 

My original response to your strawman was valid. He never asked to have the same results, yet you attacked him as if that's what he had said. Your big man on campus remark was along the same lines, you don't tell someone they aren't the big man on campus anymore if you don't assume that's what they expect. That's the problem here, your entire argument against the OP is based on assumption.

 

You're backing down from it now, because you were wrong.

 

 

 

 

Funny the way you came in here calling people names and yet you're the one taking this whole thing personally. Who's being defensive again?

 

 

No one is talking about leaderboards. Leaderboards aren't an issue here. The OP is having problems not because he wants to top the leadboards but because he failed to understand that lvl 50 gameplay was different than the lvl 49. No one is talking about being the best at anything. No ranking. No nothing.

 

It's only logical to think that what the OP was driving at was he wanted to be able to compete and still be successful. Why? Because he wasn't successful therefore he quit.

 

 

And you're right I am taking things personally because I find defending my points to someone who lacks the reading comprehension to understand it extremely annoying.

 

So again, successful doesn't mean "best" or even "better". What it does mean is this: "Accomplishing an aim or purpose." In context to what the OP said, that he's quitting because he was unsuccessful. Everyone smart lvl 50 pvp'r would know that: 10k HP isn't enough, Lvl 30-45 gear isn't enough, winning will be diffucult, and the grind will start again.

 

 

My point was absolutely valid and I'm still sticking to it. However with you, the points are still going in circles because I know what I said, and you think you know what I said.

 

If I failed anywhere in any of my responses it's that I didn't make it clear enough for someone like you to comprehend.

 

 

With that being said, I rarely read other people's responses. Why? Because people will detract from the point like you did in questioning one part of my argument.

 

Strawman: is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

 

 

 

Taking my original point of him expecting to have the same success in to turning this argument over him wishing to be the best has been a complete waste of time for the both of us because it stems from you not understanding my first response which was replying mainly to this:

 

"I enjoyed pvp 1-49 and consistently got top dps on my team before now. Now I feel like I am - and am completely ineffective. I don't particularly care what anyone says about patches or balance or gear or how much I must whine or suck; this is not fun anymore. No more pvp for me!"

 

 

 

Out of my first response all you apparently read was this:

 

"instead of doing a reboot on what to expect you've expected to have the same success that you did before."

 

 

Your response was this:

 

 

"Where exactly did you pull that from the OP's post?

 

I'm pretty sure no one really expects to jump into the level 50 bracket and start topping the leader boards, but you shouldn't feel worthless either."

 

 

And you ignored this:

 

"Where in the lvl 49 pvp did you forget about being cc'd? Do you think it actually gets better in lvl 50 bracket?

 

And you didn't bother to gear up before going into those arenas? I spent 100k on getting geared with lvl 49 gear once I hit 49 and I was doing fairly well in WZs. "

 

 

 

But it's turned into this:

 

"And yet no where in that paragraph does the OP say he/she wants to be the best in the 50 bracket. Only that he was good in the lower brackets and thus shouldn't be horrible in the level 50." -Spymaster

 

 

 

And then to this:

 

 

"YOU said it. You took his line about wanting to top the leaderboards in the lower brackets and acted as if that meant he wanted to do the same in the level 50s." -Spymaster

 

 

 

Like I said again, we are doing circles and going no where all because you didn't understand my first initial response.

 

 

Clearly the the OP had fun pvping before, but now he's not and gave up. Why would he even step foot into that realm if he didn't think he wouldn't have had the same success. Gamblers have this sort of thinking all the time. They know the house odds are stacked against them, but they think they'll get lucky anyway and they keep repeating it.

 

The fact that he quit is the biggest tell in this matter. He gave up because something wasn't the same as before when he was having fun. Hence it being "not fun anymore". And that something was the simple reality that lvl 50 pvp is different and not the same.

 

 

That was my original point. Thank you for dragging it out as much as you did.

 

Edited March 7, 2012 by Draeb

[Caeliux]

Reading comprehension would suggest that the OP is comparing his/her current PvP experience to his/her previous experience with the lower bracket. The OP has noticed a difference and is clearly dissatisfied. Therefore, it can be construed that something within the perceived incongruity has caused the dissatisfaction, which in turn suggests that the expectations the OP had upon entering the new lvl 50 bracket are unfulfilled.

 

Logically, you can sum this up by saying, "The OP expected to be similarly effective in the new bracket as he/she was in the old bracket. This not being the case, the OP is upset."

 

This logical conclusion can further percolate into other expressions that say basically the same things, such as, "This guy went in thinking it's going to be the same, not in the terms of DPS, but in terms of high level play. He showed no respect to what it would mean to not be geared for the occasion."

 

This guy is good, very good ^

[Spymaster]

No one is talking about leaderboards.

 

The OP was. You should likely have read it before posting.

 

That was my original point. Thank you for dragging it out as much as you did.

 

Sorry, I didn't read past the first line. My guess is it's a big excuse about how you know what the OP meant, even though it's not actually there in his post. Am I right?

 

If you're not willing to read what other people say, why should anyone bother with you?

Edited March 7, 2012 by Spymaster

[Spymaster]

This guy is good, very good ^

 

No he's not. Strawman arguments are illogical by default.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Spymaster

[Caeliux]

No he's not. Strawman arguments are illogical by default.

 

Ok Leonard Nimoy your right.

[tsupra]

when my sentinel hitted 50,i bought 2 great purple 49 implants(exceptional) for 30 k each

 

a 29k purple earing,100k in armoring/hilts plus some mods from corelian coms!

 

Then i done my weeklies /daylies(+6 bags from leveling) and without droping a single piece of gear just bying some centurion pieces i was able to have fun since day2!

 

All the rest is just stupid qq or l2p issues

 

i still use those implants and the modified lvl 40 chestpiece and still having fun

Edited March 7, 2012 by tsupra

[Spymaster]

Ok Leonard Nimoy your right.

 

I am right. That's the funny part.

 

You can make a pretty post about how you assume the OP must have meant something he didn't actually say, but you can't pretend it's logic. It's... just..... not.

[Caeliux]

I am right. That's the funny part.

 

You can make a pretty post about how you assume the OP must have meant something he didn't actually say, but you can't pretend it's logic. It's... just..... not.

 

/golfclap

 

I never said OP was wrong, did I. Find the post I said OP was wrong, then come back and talk to me.

 

Nice bait though, I am biting.

[Spymaster]

/golfclap

 

I never said OP was wrong, did I. Find the post I said OP was wrong, then come back and talk to me.

 

Nice bait though, I am biting.

 

What? I'm not talking about you personally. The other guy made an assumption about the OP and you suppored him. I'm explaining to you why that other post was not "good" as you claimed, because it was actually very poor logic.

 

Why would I need to find a place where YOU personally said something about the OP to explain to you why someone else is wrong?

Edited March 7, 2012 by Spymaster

[Solemnone]

Well, I hit 50 yesterday on my gunslinger with 1000 merc and 1000 wz commendation, bought my 5 bags, got a piece of gear. Still mostly in lvling gear, but hey, gotta start somewhere, right? I figure I'll do a couple wz to see how it is.

 

I lost the next 8 warzones including such wonderful experiences as: being continuously cced for 20 seconds, being about 50% slower than everyone else every fight, my "big hit" aimed shot bouncing off the armor of a trooper, being two shotted (I have a measly 12k hp), my leg shots and ccs rarely doing anything at all, watching someone stand in fire for the entire flame jet during huttball and remaining at full hp, watching a trooper heal through the dps of 4 people, watching the above trooper keep healing dispite my interrupts (even though it's supposed to silence for 4 seconds) while being dpsed by four people, 'critting' for 15 damage, losing a game of huttball in 2 minutes, and many more.

 

I enjoyed pvp 1-49 and consistently got top dps on my team before now. Now I feel like I am - and am completely ineffective. I don't particularly care what anyone says about patches or balance or gear or how much I must whine or suck; this is not fun anymore. No more pvp for me!

 

Unless Bioware learns to not suck at pvp managment, then welcome to the norm. Pvp in this game can take you from loving the game to absolutely freaking hating it. If you're endgame is pvp then I suggest looking elsewhere.

[Caeliux]

Why would I need to find a place where YOU personally said something about the OP to explain to you why someone else is wrong?

 

I misinterpreted, my bad.

 

I actually think OP is just another person that got bored, happens to the best of us.

 

I think OP's opinion has nothing to do with the game, has to do with things that OP expected, and is wanting.

 

Sometimes boredom happens even in the greatest moments in life, has nothing to do what or where we are at, it just happens.

 

My 2 pennies.

[viLe-]

Welcome to lvl 50 PvP.

Learn how other classes work, and get full cent/champ gear gear (takes maybe 2 or 3 days to hit 450 expertise).

After that you will be able to hold your own and you will realize that it's 10x more fun than 10-49 bracket because most people actually know what they are doing.

Edited March 7, 2012 by viLe-

[Dlema]

Well, I hit 50 yesterday on my gunslinger with 1000 merc and 1000 wz commendation, bought my 5 bags, got a piece of gear. Still mostly in lvling gear, but hey, gotta start somewhere, right? I figure I'll do a couple wz to see how it is.

 

I lost the next 8 warzones including such wonderful experiences as: being continuously cced for 20 seconds, being about 50% slower than everyone else every fight, my "big hit" aimed shot bouncing off the armor of a trooper, being two shotted (I have a measly 12k hp), my leg shots and ccs rarely doing anything at all, watching someone stand in fire for the entire flame jet during huttball and remaining at full hp, watching a trooper heal through the dps of 4 people, watching the above trooper keep healing dispite my interrupts (even though it's supposed to silence for 4 seconds) while being dpsed by four people, 'critting' for 15 damage, losing a game of huttball in 2 minutes, and many more.

 

I enjoyed pvp 1-49 and consistently got top dps on my team before now. Now I feel like I am - and am completely ineffective. I don't particularly care what anyone says about patches or balance or gear or how much I must whine or suck; this is not fun anymore. No more pvp for me!

 

Im so sick of these post. Do you seriously think you can ding 50 and then join a WZ and be effective in starter gear. This game has been out for a while, so expect to fight geared players.

 

When I hit 50 on my merc healer I went into WZs with fresh gear, tho I had replaced the mods with lvl 50 mods. I was getting absolutely destroyed. I couldnt heal thru there dmg.

 

But in a week or two after grinding more comms and doing dailies/weeklys I could feel with every.new piece of cent/champ gear I got, I started to survive alot longer and heal alot more.

 

Just stop ya crying and actually get some *********** gear before you make another AW post.

[Spymaster]

I misinterpreted, my bad.

 

No problem. Thanks for owning up to it.

 

I actually think OP is just another person that got bored, happens to the best of us.

 

I think OP's opinion has nothing to do with the game, has to do with things that OP expected, and is wanting.

 

Sometimes boredom happens even in the greatest moments in life, has nothing to do what or where we are at, it just happens.

 

My 2 pennies

 

You could be right about this. ^

[Belcorwyn]

And yet no where in that paragraph does the OP say he/she wants to be the best in the 50 bracket. Only that he was good in the lower brackets and thus shouldn't be horrible in the level 50.

 

So basically you guys are making up nonsense and arguing with it instead of actually responding to what's written.

 

"Reading comprehension" means reading what is there, and understanding it. Not imagining whatever you want it to "suggest" and then acting like the words on the screen say whatever the hack you want them to say.

 

Strawman arguments are not logical.

 

I think you're being disingenuous and/or deliberately misunderstanding the logic behind what was posted in an attempt to entrench yourself on your side of the argument. I also question your understanding of a "straw man argument," as it is not applicable to my previous post.

 

I clearly depicted the correlation between the OP's verbiage and the other poster's interpretation. The OP states that he was great at PvP in the 1-49 bracket. The OP states that he now feels useless in the lvl 50 bracket. The OP states that he is upset as a result. Based on that information, it can be intelligently surmised that the OP would not be discontent if his effectiveness in PvP matches remained constant. Therefore, it can also be intelligently surmised that the OP had expectations that he would remain effective, as without said expectations, he would not be upset.

 

If you honestly struggle to grasp these elementary connections, then you are woefully bereft of either education, wit, and/or analytic capacity. If you actually do grasp the logic, which I believe is more likely, then you are simply a troll (playing devil's advocate to the point of absurdity). Either way, there's no point in trying to further this discussion.

 

Best of luck to you.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Belcorwyn

[Ainrehtea]

It's rough on you lil dps and tanks with no Expertise, I heal just fine with 0 and don't die that much(0-3 a average game).

As for interrupting a Healer, we all have about 4 heals, you just need to interrupt the right one. Hell, I can still keep myself alive with just 1/2 big heals while you silenced the other.

 

It takes 2-4 dps to kill me(Depending on how bad they are) and there is no way for me to prevent 4 interrupts on all my heals and by that time I'm dead, if not then I'm making them interrupt the wrong heal then critting myself back to half hp then back up again and again.

[Thorkir]

I've had similar issues with my new 50 sorceror. While I can CC effectively, and do a moderate amount of damage, I find it very hard to out-heal the incoming damage (I'm a healer spec). This was true to a certain extent before 50, though, so I expected it.

 

Just my opinion, but the fire/poison really ought to do a percentage of your health as damage...so that you don't get people who run through it and shrug it off like it isn't there.

 

This isn't the place for it, but I've also had troubles with Extricate pulling people in weird paths, getting them stuck in the ceiling or in other unreachable areas. If I did it to you, I'm really sorry.

 

It's rough on you lil dps and tanks with no Expertise, I heal just fine with 0 and don't die that much(0-3 a average game).

As for interrupting a Healer, we all have about 4 heals, you just need to interrupt the right one. Hell, I can still keep myself alive with just 1/2 big heals while you silenced the other.

 

It takes 2-4 dps to kill me(Depending on how bad they are) and there is no way for me to prevent 4 interrupts on all my heals and by that time I'm dead, if not then I'm making them interrupt the wrong heal then critting myself back to half hp then back up again and again.

 

What healer class do you play as?

Edited March 7, 2012 by Thorkir