DaWaffle Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Everything Vader did was because of Palpatine. Therefore, by extension, Palpatine did everything Vader did and more. Ergo, Palpy is much worse. Also, you seem to be confusing not having the chance to kill younglings with not wanting to. He would have had no reservations whatsoever with killing them, the situation just never occured. Edited March 7, 2012 by DaWaffle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxWattonxX Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) In his death and it is all how you look at it ! Redeemed also means forgiveness but being Jedi are forgiving people I guess that would be a point to Vadar. Killing from a distance and killing people with your own hands is different being its more personal when its with your own hands ! I would disagree, killing an untold amount of people from a distance with one command is in my opinion much more sinister than personal combat, with personal combat you have to live with the memories of those you killed, where as with the distance mass slaughter, it seemed kinda blasé, as if to them wiping out an entire planet was just another day for them, that is more in-humane imo. Edited March 7, 2012 by XxWattonxX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadsithdread Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) 0:36 and 1:37 end of debate. Edited March 7, 2012 by undeadsithdread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aitix Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 According to the Darth Plagieus novel, Palpatine was born evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 did Vader get darkside points for his decision to kill the children (package deal TOR style) or did He get points for each one? (itemized) I'm only asking because we next see him with yellow eyes, so obviously it was enough to go from whatever he was to at least Dark I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stineo Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Only cowards kill children ! Killing the younglings was not just some random act. It was a tactical attack and smart thing to do. Order 66 which was given by the Emperor to kill all the Jedi. It did not matter how old they were, they all had to die. Also what perfect way to test the loyality of his new sith lord, then to kill the jedi children. Also as it seems that the dark side corrupts a person so much that they lose one's past self. Basically becoming "possessed" in a way to something so twisted and without sense of morality. Things like that is not explained very well to your average movie goer, so Anakin's actions seems out of character. That's why the last 3 movies almost seem rushed to me. They needed to be longer. Epic story telling, similar to The Lord of the Rings movies. Edited March 8, 2012 by stineo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisusOcculo Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Darth Vader, if you really got down to it, was only an instrument of Darth Sidious. Now, Sidious? He was a genius but did whatever was necessary to achieve his goals. To achieve as the sole Sith Lord to literally take over the Republic, transform it into the Galactic Empire, and utterly destroying the long hated nemesis, the Jedi Order? He had no problems of betrayal, i.e. killing the CIS leadership on Mustafar, forsaking Darth Tyrannus (Dooku's eyes were in total shock that Sidious would have him killed), and he even was willing to sacrifice Darth Vader to gain Luke Skywalker as his new apprentice. Of course, he had no problems to scheme the entire plan of forming the CIS, the Clone Wars, and large disposable armies between the CIS and Republic to wage a terrible galactic war. How many people died during the Clone Wars? How many non-combatants? How many planets reduced to ash by the Republic and CIS? This was all part of his plan on clouding events to mask himself from the Jedi Order, which worked perfectly. He was standing in front of their faces! He must have had alot of satisfying laughter from that alone. Darth Vader was a ******, but merely the supreme agent of Sidious, and a vicious one at that. But more evil than Sidious? No way. Not even by a galaxy wide margin. Sidious was far more dark, far more evil than Vader ever was. =========== Darth Sidious should also stand, IMO, as the greatest Sith Lord we've ever seen. As a Sith Lord, he didn't have a "Sith Empire" with the agents and military power to go alongside it. He didn't immediately have the war machine of the Galactic Empire. He didn't have academies of disposable Sith acolytes, apprentices, etc. What Darth Sidious DID have, was patience, outstanding planning, charisma, and perfect manipulation, as well as a great understanding of the Force and Dark Side. With little resources, he took over the Republic and destroyed the Jedi Order, and established the Galactic Empire. He may not have been the best or flashiest with the Lightsaber, but he has accomplished what no Sith Lord has ever done before or afterwards: Overcoming completely the Republic and destroying the Jedi. Guns don't kill people rappers do, I saw it on a documentary on BBC2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxWattonxX Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Guns don't kill people rappers do, I saw it on a documentary on BBC2? When faced with a debate, quoting goldie looking chain never fails.. Edited March 8, 2012 by XxWattonxX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaczuszka Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 as a sith i kill for a reason always and vader did it only to become more powerful just to save padme the more dark side he had the more possible it was to save her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincaserus Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Vader essentially has his redemption moment in the end, so I'm going with John MCain...errrm...I mean Palpatine. you mean Cheney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthPsychonis Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Alot of people seem to be judging this on what Vader & Palpatine's "intentions" were. As Lucas himself once said "Anyone who is evil never thinks of themselves as evil, they always think that they are doing good....even when they are not." It makes little difference to me what their motives were either good or evil, it is their actions that define them. Although Palpatine is considered the ultimate villian, there were times when Vader was even worst. Anakin knew the things he did was wrong (i.e. killing children) but he did them anyways to meet his own intentions of becoming strong enough to save Padme. We expect someone like Palpatine to be evil, as he really had no real chance of being anything else. Anakin was a good man, a hero, and to see him descend to do such horrible things is far worst. Who was pulling who's strings does not make one of them more evil than the other. The kicker for me came in TFUII (yes I know that game sucked) when Vader threatened to kill Juno, the woman Starkiller loved, unless Starkiller did his bidding. Here, Vader is knowingly doing (in extent) the same thing Palpatine did to him in EPIII.....turn to the Dark Side in order to save the one you love. That to me is the epitome of evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VisusOcculo Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 When faced with a debate, quoting goldie looking chain never fails.. Ask any politician and they'll tell you it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxWattonxX Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Ask any politician and they'll tell you it's true. Maggot for prime minister? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Easy. Palpatine is far more evil than Vader. Anakin in the prequels was just really poorly written and acted. The fact that he thought he was doing the right thing up until he was ordered to kill the kids, then realized he was wrong, but did it anyway??? Seriously??? He could have helped out Windu with taking the Emperor down, then went about his business. But nooooooo. Apologies, but the prequels always make me want to find GL and say "W.T.F. DUDE???" No really. Palpatine is way more evil. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivance Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 The is no way. Sidious manipulated Vader into doing all those things. Vader was just another victim of his grand dark plan. That's why at the end of return of the jedi, luke brings Vader back to the light side. Because there was always good still in Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivance Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 The is no way. Sidious manipulated Vader into doing all those things. Vader was just another victim of his grand dark plan. That's why at the end of return of the jedi, luke brings Vader back to the light side. Because there was always good still in Vader. But my plan if I was Vader right after Padme died, I would of taken down Sidious because he promised I could save Padme. But hey, I make a really good Sith lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Vader had too much conflict he was just Palpatines puppet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadsithdread Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 But my plan if I was Vader right after Padme died, I would of taken down Sidious because he promised I could save Padme. But hey, I make a really good Sith lol. he did but he got pwned by sidious after sidious told vader padme is dead. yeah they did not show it in movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZayneDraay Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Palpatine was the kind of guy who would kill you through deception, while Vader was the opposite in that he did things with a more hands-on aproach. In any case Palpatine was the guy who corrupted Vader, so if you're thinking Vader is more evil I think you are mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Sidious totally mind****ed Vader for years, and in the end he was, as someone so nicely put it, a psychopath. I mean, after what happens in the first three movies, he singlehandedly purges the remaining jedi, breaking or killing any he can find. The EU material pretty much makes Vader of this era into Batman, he's invincible and always has a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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