Wolfeisberg Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Could you give me some specifics? In what ways will every single aspect of my digital life be improved? That's a pretty strong claim, so I'm curious as to what I'm missing out on exactly. He can't, he'll just tell you to google search it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 You don't get to decide what brands qualify, sorry He proved you can get a pc for half the cost of an equivalent mac. You got shot down yet again No one is telling you how to spend your money, we're just responding to your false claims I do get to pick, sorry. HP, Dell, etc all have similar cost structures for marketing, R&D, etc. "CyberPowerPC" has none. Actually I'm not sorry, you're just being petty in an argument you've lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 An approach like what? I make 3d models... you need a high end computer for that not some ****** mac... Nice Ad Hominem fallacy you made there. LOL, I've been in the 3D biz on my Mac since likely before you were born. The Mac workstations easily keep up. I should know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Tell me something; how does that Kool-Aid taste? Any intelligent person isn't arguing against what I'm saying. But, they don't know any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Im amazed that he still posts even though he has had tons of fallacies. Zero fallacies. All facts. Just because you don't like them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 You have a very curious definition of value. On Apple's website, while configuring a new Mac, they will upgrade you from 3GB of memory to 12GB of memory for $525. You can buy that exact same 12GB of ECC memory from provantage or any other IT distributor for around $100. It's not all about price, you know. I buy ram for my Macs from Crucial or anywhere else. But the fact is the Mac itself provides a much, much higher value to me than Windows. Which is unusable. It sounds more to me like you spent a lot of money on your computer, and that makes you feel entitled to something. It sounds more like you and others in this thread are jealous that I can spend what I want on my computer... that's what it sounds like to me. You "have to" use Windows. I "choose to" use a Mac. If you make a choice to buy a copmuter whose default operating system is ubiquitously known not to be fully supported by software vendors, and then point the finger at someone else (in this case BioWare) about a lack of support... Well, I think it's safe to say that no one forced you to buy a Mac, so whose fault is it really? My Mac is universally and fully supported by every software vendor that I use products from, and always has been. It was perfectly reasonable to assume that BioWare wouldn't fumble, and support the Mac just like their largest competitor did on day 1. But then, there's a lot of things that didn't happen that their largest competitor does right. BioWare has heard the desire for a Mac client and publicly acknowledged that they would like to make one when it doesn't interfere with higher priority development work. (I'm not sure if you noticed, but this game still has some serious issues, which thankfully they are working very hard to address, but trying to port their graphics engine over to OpenGL in the middle of all that is not a formula for win.) They should have started cross-platform. Simple as that. It was a bad choice of tech in the beginning that was shortsighted and didn't take into account the growth trajectory of the Mac market. I'm really not sure what anyone hopes to accomplish at this point, by refusing to let it go and being patient. I won't be playing the game, so it's a moot point for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxen Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just for fun, I went to HP website, you know, one of the brands that he said I had to go with, and guess what I found http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=desktops&series_name=h8z_series&a1=Category&v1=High%20performance&a2=Starting%20price&v2=Over%20$700 I even went with the recommended setup AMD FX-8120 eight-core processor [3.1GHz, 8MB L2/8MB L3 Cache] 10GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [3 DIMMs] 1TB 7200 rpm SATA hard drive 1GB AMD Radeon HD 7570 [DVI, HDMI, DP, VGA adapter] HP 2311x 23-inch LED Monitor Plus Keyboard, mouse, DvD Writer, all the needed bells and whistles. Total price $1029, and now compare that to the $2000 IMac, the one I stated earlier in this thread ($1500 IMac then upgraded to the $2000 price, the $2000 IMac doesn't even come close to the computer from HP above. So in this case, so for half of the price of the Imac, one can get a superior windows PC from a "Brand" name provider. The configuration you provided on the HP came out to 1269.98 when I did it for whatever reason, and the $2000 iMac has a larger display and a better GPU. Bringing the display size and gpu down, you can get it closer to 1500 but the processor is slower, so lets say around 1700 to even it out? I will admit to Macs having diminishing returns the more high-end you get. There can be alot of difference between a $1000 and a $1500 mac but not so much between a $1500 and a $2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just for fun, I went to HP website, you know, one of the brands that he said I had to go with, and guess what I found http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=desktops&series_name=h8z_series&a1=Category&v1=High%20performance&a2=Starting%20price&v2=Over%20$700 I even went with the recommended setup AMD FX-8120 eight-core processor [3.1GHz, 8MB L2/8MB L3 Cache] 10GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [3 DIMMs] 1TB 7200 rpm SATA hard drive 1GB AMD Radeon HD 7570 [DVI, HDMI, DP, VGA adapter] HP 2311x 23-inch LED Monitor Plus Keyboard, mouse, DvD Writer, all the needed bells and whistles. Total price $1029, and now compare that to the $2000 IMac, the one I stated earlier in this thread ($1500 IMac then upgraded to the $2000 price, the $2000 IMac doesn't even come close to the computer from HP above. So in this case, so for half of the price of the Imac, one can get a superior windows PC from a "Brand" name provider. You can add about $600 that price to get a monitor in the same league as the iMac... prices are much closer, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Yup, i love pc gaming, love steam and dare i say love Gaben:D You can wave goodbye, because PC gaming is a dying breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tool_of_Society Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Zero fallacies. All facts. Just because you don't like them...Reality is not your strong suit.. Well , tell me 5 good games coming out this years that hardcore gamers will want to play ? Currently all the exclusive games list is Kinect games that I don't really think I will ever buy. Each year on xbox I see only 1~2 games that are either Gears of war sequel or Halo sequel , I can't understand doesn't xbox gamers get tired of Microsoft milking a same game with a bit better graphics with some new maps ? =============================== For ATI part, the structure part I am not sure, but the card is made by ATI so I can't really believe whatever you wrote. So basically you're admitting that you really don't know what you're talking about. Awesome thanks for being honest. TPM stands for Trusted Platform Module, a way to identify that hardware is built to a trusted configuration. I've never heard of this term until now, but I suppose I never had need to. Anyone that works on macs on a hardware level or does anything remotely technical with computers is well aware of the TPM chip in APple computers. IT was Apple's feeble attempt at keeping OSx off regular intel machines. Do some reading sometime and you might get a kick out of the story. Apple's core advantage is that the OS and hardware are designed, engineered and tested together. Yes, they buy components from people who are experts at making CPUs, hard drives, graphics cards, etc. But Apple actually designs many chips, including major ones, such as the iPhone/iPad's A5 CPU, and invests in some component manufacturers, such as display manufacturers. This helps them maintain quality and ensure supply. Even without such investment Apple's volume of sales gives them early access to test versions of unreleased CPUs and lets them request custom configurations from other suppliers. And of course they design their own circuit boards, too. The result are products that every millimeter was purposefully designed and engineered. To the eye and to the touch, they give the look and feel of quality. The last major PC maker Windows laptop I bought, by comparison, felt like something heavy in cheap plastic, even down to the keyboard keys. I suppose if I hadn't become used to the feel of Apple laptops I wouldn't have this realization every time I pick up the Windows laptop. I'm not saying the Windows laptop is junk, just that its use of lower-cost materials makes a noticeable difference.Keep telling yourself that because it's a straight lie. Like I have said over and over NO company that is interested in quality would be using the cheap low level components that Apple uses in their products. I've already said time and time again that apple notebooks are pretty awesome it's just their desktop units are way over priced. This is not a discussion about phones or tablets as neither can play this game and are thus irrelevant like much of your paragraphs above. But I like Apple products for more than just for the hardware. That's blatantly obvious and was exactly the goal of Steve Jobs and also why I have to give him a massive amount of credit. He built the cult of Apple and it's been a very successful business practice. I'm very happy to have an OS with a unix core, able to develop iOS software on, goes months without a restart, never needs disk defragmenting, etc. There are lots of things I value that makes them worth the price (usually 0%-30% higher). If I wanted a big box of swappable parts, I would buy a Windows PC or maybe save up for a way-overpowered (for my needs) Mac Pro. But generally I like doing things *with* my computer, not *to* my computer, so iMacs and MacBooks suit me just fine. Sadly for you all those factor stand true for win7 and the upcoming win8. You apple users are stuck in the 90s back when the crap pile of win95 and win98 were prominent. BTW your mac does need defragmented occasionally. Even Apple themselvs says in knowledge base article #25668 that you "probably" won't need to but you will need to under some circumstances. That's pretty much the same line that MS floats for win7 and is my experience with both operating systems. Your "overpowered" macpro is just an overpriced intel PC with severe limits on internal hardware. I am a technical person so I like to fiddle around inside to increase my computers capability with minimal investment instead of paying out the nose everytime I want to upgrade like you. Not true. LINK ANY OF THEM. I started linking Mac Viruses/trojans/worms and you just vanished from the thread never to respond till now... I imagine once someone starts linking the exploits and bugs in OSx again you'll just disappear like last time. I expect you also "magically" missed the interview/article with the mac hacker and how easy it was for him to exploit firefox/opera and such on OSx that was linked earlier in this thread? Why does every PC fanboi always say macs are "twice as expensive"? I've never seen a Mac cost nearly twice as much as any PC with similar specs nor have I ever seen anyone link such a comparison. Maybe a couple hundred more hear or there but not double.Because I can build you a better machine for a fraction of the cost. For example: this dell workstation http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...recision-t7500 goes for $2500 without the monitor and this mac pro: http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC560LL/A? for about the same price granted, Dell gives you a huge instant rebate with that model but it's still not TWICE the amount Comparing one overpriced PC(Mac) to another overpriced PC(Dell) isn't going to get you far. It's common knowledge that dell computers are overpriced and junk. If you're going to compare prices, you have to compare like machines from manufacturers, not home-brewed built-box crap, sorry. The difference even then is that Apple provides value, where Dell provides none. They just slap parts together. Apple engineers things to work flawlessly together. You want only that comparison because you know that your closed platform keeps you from building a machine without the knowledge to do a minor hack to osx to get it to run. IT's funny that you think quality engineering involves cheap caps mosfets voltage regulators and more because that's what you will find in most Apple products. Just cause you think Apple is like the Ferrari of the computer world doesn't magically make it so. The reality is Apple products are mass produces at the cheapest rates possible just like all other electronic components that have mass market appeal. That's why there's the occasional rash of exploding phones and such. Cheap components don't always perform like they should. I'll stick to building my own machines so I can insure that each component is made up of high quality parts. The fact is you cannot do the same through lack of technical knowledge and thus you try to tilt the price playing field in your angle by demanding a prebuilt wintel machines from major companies as the only method of price comparison. You have no interest in fairly comparing the prices only in trying to make Mac look better. So keep spin spin spinning away buddy and I hope you're getting paid for your time. And that answer is changing more and more every day as the Mac market continues to explode in growth... the future is even brighter. My that 10% market share sure is giving you all kinds of confidence now. EDIT : Yup, i love pc gaming, love steam and dare i say love GabenMan what a difference a decade makes. Back when valve was working on TF2 as their next major release and everything was going to be released "when it's ready". Gabe was a very hated and distrusted man in the gaming world during that time period. I must admit I didn't think they'd make the steam thing work out properly but I did recognize the potential brilliance of it. Edited March 12, 2012 by Tool_of_Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 You want only that comparison because you know that your closed platform keeps you from building a machine without the knowledge to do a minor hack to osx to get it to run. IT's funny that you think quality engineering involves cheap caps mosfets voltage regulators and more because that's what you will find in most Apple products. Just cause you think Apple is like the Ferrari of the computer world doesn't magically make it so. The reality is Apple products are mass produces at the cheapest rates possible just like all other electronic components that have mass market appeal. That's why there's the occasional rash of exploding phones and such. Cheap components don't always perform like they should. I'll stick to building my own machines so I can insure that each component is made up of high quality parts. The fact is you cannot do the same through lack of technical knowledge and thus you try to tilt the price playing field in your angle by demanding a prebuilt wintel machines from major companies as the only method of price comparison. You have no interest in fairly comparing the prices only in trying to make Mac look better. So keep spin spin spinning away buddy and I hope you're getting paid for your time. My that 10% market share sure is giving you all kinds of confidence now. Mainstream consumers, which are the future of gaming, do not build boxes. Even today. You are a niche antiquity of you think that people go out and upgrade their PCs, let alone build them, on a regular basis. People prefer to simply buy and replace... and since so many people are moving over to Mac from Windows due to their exposure to the iOS, it's only a matter of time before they realize there really was a better way all along, and they've been suffering. Most people will pay a small premium for that, and it's worth every penny. You can just use your computer, not futz with it. Your kind has a loud wakeup call coming, with the rest of the PC industry. See you at 25% share.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxen Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if soon, a new computer company with it's own OS, not windows or linux or mac, comes out and does like, the best marketing campaign ever known to man and suddenly everyone moves to that. It could happen. Whoever thought google would make their own cell phone operating system before it was announced? Even though it's linux based Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) The configuration you provided on the HP came out to 1269.98 when I did it for whatever reason, and the $2000 iMac has a larger display and a better GPU. Bringing the display size and gpu down, you can get it closer to 1500 but the processor is slower, so lets say around 1700 to even it out? I will admit to Macs having diminishing returns the more high-end you get. There can be alot of difference between a $1000 and a $1500 mac but not so much between a $1500 and a $2000. Nope, sorry, you did not do what I did. Go back to the site, I realize now that my link didn't work. Pick the HPE h8z series in the High Performance, view models, pick base and then add the 23 inch monitor, and it comes out to the $1000 price I posted. And I was comparing this to the $1500 IMac when upgraded to something as near as possible to what the HP is, and it still cannot get near it, and that cost $2000. It even still beats the $2000 base price Imac, except in Screen size. Pick the HPE h8qe series, base spec, with a 27 inch monitor for $1689, and it still is very superior to the $2000 base price IMac. Edited March 12, 2012 by Wolfeisberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Zero fallacies. All facts. Just because you don't like them... yeah about those facts... we are still waiting for you to actually show us the facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tool_of_Society Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Mainstream consumers, which are the future of gaming, do not build boxes. Even today. You are a niche antiquity of you think that people go out and upgrade their PCs, let alone build them, on a regular basis. Your kind has a loud wakeup call coming, with the rest of the PC industry. See you at 25% share....Forgive me for taking everything you type with a pinch of salt after seeing all your exaggerations lies and such in this thread. I believe you should spend a little time editing your posts before posting because it takes a bit of effort to attempt to decipher what you mean. I build machines for everyday people but it is mostly for gamers. I just finished an amd gamer box and now I'm working on an intel box for a non gamer (insisted on intel). I just installed a new PSU in my box yesterday because my old PSU was of an older ATX specification. I setup the old PSU as a bench power supply and it's working great for that. I just installed an 8 gig DDr3 upgrade in a clients machine before I built the AMD machine. I updated my "server" several weeks ago with an e4400 (up from a celeron D) I bought off ebay for 12 bucks shipped and it's now stable OCed to 2.6ghz with 1066 fsb. etc etc etc.. The upgrade and building business is doing quite well for me thank you People prefer to simply buy and replace... and since so many people are moving over to Mac from Windows due to their exposure to the iOS, it's only a matter of time before they realize there really was a better way all along, and they've been suffering. Most people will pay a small premium for that, and it's worth every penny. You can just use your computer, not futz with it. The disposable economy will not make it to computers. You're obviously completely ignorant of the actual materials used to make computers and electronic devices. Your computer uses quite an array of rare earth elements that are not surprisingly extremely rare. The biggest supply of rare earth elements right now is China and that's just not good from any perspective. There's estimations that at our continued rate of growth that we'll run out of critical rare earth elements in the next couple decades. That means either we need to start recycling hardcore or start developing ways to NOT use incredibly rare elements in our everyday electronics. You're right I like a no futz computer and that's why I went with wintel. I like knowing that anything I encounter in media or online will run on my system. I like knowing that any game I want to play will run on my system. I also like knowing that I have complete control of my hardware. I like not having to futz around with the limitations imposed by Apple. Edited March 12, 2012 by Tool_of_Society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 You can wave goodbye, because PC gaming is a dying breed. Again, this has been said for nearly 30 years, and yet it becomes more profitable year after year, with the professional analysts stating that it will continue to grow, stating to a nearly $26 billion by 2015. But of course we are supposed to take the word of some arm chair analyst like you, who provides no proof or any verifable credentials on your expertise in market growths and changes over the professionals who have been doing this for many many years and have been right year after year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandongregmar Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm going to speculate that by Bioware being a part of EA they have to exclusively release their crap on Windows. Also Origin. What would we ever do without Origin? I can't remember a time before it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tool_of_Society Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm going to speculate that by Bioware being a part of EA they have to exclusively release their crap on Windows. Also Origin. What would we ever do without Origin? I can't remember a time before it.Hey man wing commander 1,2 and privateer were AWESOME!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) h8qe series $1928 2nd Generation Intel® Core i7-3820 processor [3.6GHz, 15MB Shared Cache] 12GB DDR3-1600MHz SDRAM [4 DIMMs] 2TB 7200 rpm SATA hard drive 3GB AMD Radeon HD 7950 [Dual Bracket, DVI, HDMI, 2x mini-DP] HP 2711x 27-inch LED Monitors Compared to IMac $2000 3.1GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5 4GB (two 2GB) memory DDR3-1333Mhz 1TB hard drive1 AMD Radeon HD 6970M with 1GB 27 inch monitor Edited March 12, 2012 by Wolfeisberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 You can add about $600 that price to get a monitor in the same league as the iMac... prices are much closer, huh? It cost $30 to upgrade from the 23" to the 27" at HP. $600? lol The IMac monitor is not all that special, its in the average range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasmeadows Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'd rather see them release a linux version. I've been waiting for years for a reason like this to switch to linux. If game developers made games for linux, I'd be done with windows for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 It cost $30 to upgrade from the 23" to the 27" at HP. $600? lol The IMac monitor is not all that special, its in the average range. Yes. It is. An equivalent Dell for example is the same price if not more than Apple's. You don't understand the tech being used. Has nothing to do with size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Yes. It is. An equivalent Dell for example is the same price if not more than Apple's. You don't understand the tech being used. Has nothing to do with size. Imacs monitors have a glare and reflection problem, that right there is a major issue. Everything else I have seen with my own eyes, their black/while levels, contrast, over all picture quality is in the average range. Also, yes I would go against Dell just as much as Apple. Dell and Apple both sell way overpriced computers, I put them in the same league. Dell is just slightly better then Apple because at least one can upgrade their Dell computer. Edited March 12, 2012 by Wolfeisberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXeromus Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) You tell me first: What does a PC do that a Mac can't? Play 90% more games 90% better? Saves you half the money of an overpriced mac? You can build one yourself the way you want it? Edited March 12, 2012 by DXeromus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Play 90% more games 90% better? Saves you half the money of an overpriced mac? You can build one yourself the way you want it? Careful, he'll come back at you with the Mac can play 80% of the highest selling games in Mac OS, and that the PC gamers can keep their crap games that didn't make the list and then proceed to show you the list of the highest selling games, which is only 10, where the 80% literally are Sims, World of Warcraft, Dragon Age, and Spore- Sims and World of Warcraft have more then 1 spot on the top 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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