Guild Summit: Mac users better really want it...

[Toxen]

I am just going to leave this here to clear up so much of the misinformation going around, its seriously making my eyes bleed to read some of these comments.

 

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/questions-for-pwn2own-hacker-charlie-miller/2941?tag=content;siu-container

 

Yeah, amazing what a difference 3 years can make. Just a few days ago, Chrome was easier to break into than Safari.

[lineschmidt]

Yeah, amazing what a difference 3 years can make. Just a few days ago, Chrome was easier to break into than Safari.

That's not the point though

 

People claim a mac is far more secure when in fact it's not. The reason why you see so much malware on windows is because there are like 9 times more windows pcs around

 

It's simple math. Why bother making malware for macs when you can reach a much larger audience on windows?

 

I own a macbook, a windows laptop and a windows desktop and i can't find any logical reason for going with a mac. The only reason i have one is for IOS development where you're forced to get one because of Apple's restrictive policies

Edited March 10, 2012 by lineschmidt

[Niizmo]

PC has about 95% of the pc market. Mac has never come close

 

Apple had the mobile market to them selfs for a few year's and now are miles behind Android. Android has like 55% of the mobile market now and is growing fast. Yes i know the iOS is better than the Android os but even that cant save em. Apple are going down hill fast.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Niizmo

[Savish]

Yeah, amazing what a difference 3 years can make. Just a few days ago, Chrome was easier to break into than Safari.

 

No it isn't just because someone found an exploit for chrome doesn't change the fact that chrome is still one of the hardest browsers to exploit which it is and Safari is by far one of the easiest especially when running on a Mac.

 

“The Chrome sandbox is the most secure sandbox out there. It’s not an easy task to create a full exploit to bypass all the protections in the sandbox. I can say that Chrome is one of the most secure browsers available.”

 

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/pwn2own-2012-google-chrome-browser-sandbox-first-to-fall/10588

 

Apple doesn't care about security in the least bit because they have security through obscurity there is no profit in finding a vulnerability for a Mac and exploiting it.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Savish

[Toxen]

PC has about 95% of the pc market. Mac has never come close

 

Apple had the mobile market to them selfs for a few year's and now are miles behind Android. Android has like 55% of the mobile market now and is growing fast. Yes i know the iOS is better than the Android os but even that cant save em. Apple are going down hill fast.

 

That's because there's hundreds of phones that use Android. I've actually spoken to several people who had Android phones who didn't even know what Android was, they just bought the phone cause they got it on sale or free upgrade or whatever. Only one phone uses iOS and it has ~40% of the market share, which is pretty impressive.

 

No it isn't just because someone found an exploit for chrome doesn't change the fact that chrome is still one of the hardest browsers to exploit which it is and Safari is by far one of the easiest especially when running on a Mac.

 

“The Chrome sandbox is the most secure sandbox out there. It’s not an easy task to create a full exploit to bypass all the protections in the sandbox. I can say that Chrome is one of the most secure browsers available.”

 

Hmm. So if Safari gets hacked, it's insecure. But if Chrome gets hacked, it's cause someone found an exploit.

 

Kinda like the Rebels found an exploit in the Death Star?

Edited March 10, 2012 by Toxen

[Savish]

Hmm. So if Safari gets hacked, it's insecure. But if Chrome gets hacked, it's cause someone found an exploit.

 

Kinda like the Rebels found an exploit in the Death Star?

 

Seriously? I'm not even going to bother responding to this lol....

[Toxen]

Seriously? I'm not even going to bother responding to this lol....

 

Hey, I kept it on-topic

[Wolfeisberg]

Buying a mac I knew what I got myself into. If anything, blame Windows for making their OS so expensive. Bootcamp works just fine for me, but if anything, people should complain about the money they gotta shell out for Windows OS, while Mac OS only costs $30...

 

Mac OS only cost $30? Lets not forget the premium one pays to have a Mac in the first place. A prebuilt PC with the same specs as a $2000 Mac cost $1000, and the only difference is the OS.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Wolfeisberg

[Onyx]

Expensive cars can do things normal cars can't. Macs on the other side, are normal x86/64 hardware pieces you can find in PCs, just put togheter in a shiny, cool-looking case with an Apple logo.

 

Macs are just overpriced fashion gadgets.

 

And that would be a false statement.

 

Macs can do everything a Windows-based PC can do, but the same does not hold true for the reverse. There have been several posts in this thread, including a couple of my own, which provide some of those differences.

[Wolfeisberg]

And that would be a false statement.

 

Macs can do everything a Windows-based PC can do, but the same does not hold true for the reverse. There have been several posts in this thread, including a couple of my own, which provide some of those differences.

 

I have been keeping up with this thread, and I don't remember there ever being a difference being mentioned. A PC can do everything a Mac can do, except run Mac OS

[Onyx]

I've been curious as to how well STWOR is running for those Mac users who are using bootcamp and such. Is bootcamp the only option to get SWTOR running?

 

I saw WINE mentioned earlier but I cannot get any info on it's effectiveness at running SWTOR. I'm way busy right now so I don't have time to try to get SWTOR running in linux or I'd already be testing instead of asking.

 

It runs essentially the same as a similarly-spec'd Windows box does. All Bootcamp really is is a dual-boot utility that also makes it easier to create and manage Windows partitions under OSX and to update drivers under Windows.

 

Windows on a machine that's been configured via Bootcamp is running natively.

 

There are other methods beyond Bootcamp to run Windows on your Mac. That includes other utilities for dual-booting as well as several VM applications such as Parallels and Crossover. As with any virtualization, the latter two will not run as efficiently as a native product however if your machine is strong enough you'll not see much of a performance hit.

[Toxen]

It runs essentially the same as a similarly-spec'd Windows box does. All Bootcamp really is is a dual-boot utility that also makes it easier to create and manage Windows partitions under OSX and to update drivers under Windows.

 

Windows on a machine that's been configured via Bootcamp is running natively.

 

There are other methods beyond Bootcamp to run Windows on your Mac. That includes other utilities for dual-booting as well as several VM applications such as Parallels and Crossover. As with any virtualization, the latter two will not run as efficiently as a native product however if your machine is strong enough you'll not see much of a performance hit.

 

I applaud this post. Just one correction if I may: Crossover isn't Virtualization or an Emulator. It uses WINE which is a compatibility layer that basically tricks the program into thinking it's running on Windows. So you shouldn't see any kind of a performance hit with it as it's not sharing resource with another OS (assuming you can get the game to work with it that is )

Edited March 11, 2012 by Toxen

[imanujakku]

bootcamp is not the only option but it is imo the best option. i have been playing since beta on a 2011 mbp and the game runs great. the only difficulty is keeping your video drivers up to date. apple seems to have very little interest in keeping the drivers up to date so you have to dig around for the most current AMD drivers.

 

yes a full install of windows 7 is expensive but considering it allows you to play any recent PC release justifies it for me. i mean if all the haters are correct guild wars 2 is going to kill this game but im not worried because i can play that too

[Onyx]

And that would be a false statement.

 

Macs can do everything a Windows-based PC can do, but the same does not hold true for the reverse. There have been several posts in this thread, including a couple of my own, which provide some of those differences.

 

I have been keeping up with this thread, and I don't remember there ever being a difference being mentioned. A PC can do everything a Mac can do, except run Mac OS

 

The OS is a big difference. OSX rides on top of a BSD kernel. Your essentially running

 

There are also advantages such as far greater stability. I know some people still debate that, but it is true.

 

Since the mid-eighties, I have had to reinstall my MacOS a grand total of two times. And yes, from a personal standpoint I was using Macs exclusively until '98 when I built my first Windows box--specifically to play games.

 

Professionally, I've been supporting MacOS, all versions of Windows starting with 3.1.1 (including the server OS versions) and several UNIX variants for more than twenty years.

 

You also don't need to worry about registry corruption/bloat. OSX handles those with individual preference files, many of which will rebuild themselves if a problem occurs.

 

Another perk is that you don't have to reinstall applications just to move their location. All you need to do is drag and drop. However I do know there are some Windows-based applications which also allow you to do that.

 

There's more, but I am tired and heading to bed lol. Hopefully I managed to write that coherently.

[Tool_of_Society]

And that would be a false statement.

 

Macs can do everything a Windows-based PC can do, but the same does not hold true for the reverse. There have been several posts in this thread, including a couple of my own, which provide some of those differences.

Macs ARE PCs with a TPM chip. Get over it.

 

It runs essentially the same as a similarly-spec'd Windows box does. All Bootcamp really is is a dual-boot utility that also makes it easier to create and manage Windows partitions under OSX and to update drivers under Windows.

I know what boot camp does I work in a mixed environment and the macs we have use boot camp. Complex software can be more finicky then running MS office so I was asking for someone with experience running STWOR.

[Tool_of_Society]

The OS is a big difference. OSX rides on top of a BSD kernel. Your essentially running

 

There are also advantages such as far greater stability. I know some people still debate that, but it is true.

 

Since the mid-eighties, I have had to reinstall my MacOS a grand total of two times. And yes, from a personal standpoint I was using Macs exclusively until '98 when I built my first Windows box--specifically to play games.

 

Professionally, I've been supporting MacOS, all versions of Windows starting with 3.1.1 (including the server OS versions) and several UNIX variants for more than twenty years.

 

You also don't need to worry about registry corruption/bloat. OSX handles those with individual preference files, many of which will rebuild themselves if a problem occurs.

 

Another perk is that you don't have to reinstall applications just to move their location. All you need to do is drag and drop. However I do know there are some Windows-based applications which also allow you to do that.

 

There's more, but I am tired and heading to bed lol. Hopefully I managed to write that coherently.

I ran the same copy of XP across multiple machines starting with a p3-500 to an athlon XP +2400 then an e7200 then ending up as my XP install on my "server" an OCed e4400. That XP install is rock stable despite migrating cross platform and across several hard drives. With win95 win98 and win98 SE I was always forced into re-installing windows after a year or so. XP was a massive step forward in reliability. When done proper you don't really have to reinstall it.

 

 

Another perk is that you don't have to reinstall applications just to move their location. All you need to do is drag and drop. However I do know there are some Windows-based applications which also allow you to do that.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I've moved installed applications and all it did was briefly break the shortcut till windows found where I had moved the application. Edited March 11, 2012 by Tool_of_Society

[Toxen]

I once heard a joke:

 

Mac users are always looking forward to the next OS X

 

PC users are always afraid of the next Windows

[lineschmidt]

The OS is a big difference. OSX rides on top of a BSD kernel. Your essentially running

 

There are also advantages such as far greater stability. I know some people still debate that, but it is true.

 

Since the mid-eighties, I have had to reinstall my MacOS a grand total of two times. And yes, from a personal standpoint I was using Macs exclusively until '98 when I built my first Windows box--specifically to play games.

 

Professionally, I've been supporting MacOS, all versions of Windows starting with 3.1.1 (including the server OS versions) and several UNIX variants for more than twenty years.

 

You also don't need to worry about registry corruption/bloat. OSX handles those with individual preference files, many of which will rebuild themselves if a problem occurs.

 

Another perk is that you don't have to reinstall applications just to move their location. All you need to do is drag and drop. However I do know there are some Windows-based applications which also allow you to do that.

 

There's more, but I am tired and heading to bed lol. Hopefully I managed to write that coherently.

Never had to reinstall XP, never had to reinstall Win 7

 

This isn't 98 anymore, Windows is very stable if you're not doing stupid things with it

 

So what exactly can you do on MacOS you can't do on Win 7?

Besides not playing new games:cool:

Edited March 11, 2012 by lineschmidt

[Lasani]

Incorrect the xbox used a chip derived from the geforce 3 architecture. The xbox 360 uses a custom chip derived from the R520 architecture from ATI because MS basically had an argument with nvidia during the xbox run over chip prices and stuff.

 

 

It's not worth my time responding to the rest of your post as all you're doing is either stating the obvious or making strange assertions like "MS has ditched hardcore gamers" which are completely against reality..

Well , tell me 5 good games coming out this years that hardcore gamers will want to play ?

 

Currently all the exclusive games list is Kinect games that I don't really think I will ever buy.

 

Each year on xbox I see only 1~2 games that are either Gears of war sequel or Halo sequel , I can't understand doesn't xbox gamers get tired of Microsoft milking a same game with a bit better graphics with some new maps ?

 

===============================

 

For ATI part, the structure part I am not sure, but the card is made by ATI so I can't really believe whatever you wrote.

 

There's a lot to be said about getting to the market first even if your product is inferior. History is littered with evidence supporting this theory. I didn't buy an xbox 360 early because I KNEW it was going to take a couple versions of hardware to get a stable reliable product.

 

I don't think so, They came first but currently at this point xbox doesn't have any game worth playing.

 

Xbox is like halo, gears of war fan console only

 

There is 2 games , one of them comes out every year and all the rest games comes out on both console.

Edited March 11, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude comments

[Lasani]

Never had to reinstall XP, never had to reinstall Win 7

 

This isn't 98 anymore, Windows is very stable if you're not doing stupid things with it

 

So what exactly can you do on MacOS you can't do on Win 7?

Besides not playing new games:cool:

 

You can't make iOS games on PC.

 

And http://www.sevenforums.com/performance-maintenance/15288-why-does-any-windows-get-slow-over-time.html

 

you can find more of it , google it, internet is full of this complains.

[ArkhamNative]

Macs ARE PCs with a TPM chip. Get over it.

 

First off, yes, Macs are personal computers (as opposed to room-sized mini-computers or mainframes, or embedded micro controllers?). Always have been, just like the Apple II or TRS-80 were.

 

TPM stands for Trusted Platform Module, a way to identify that hardware is built to a trusted configuration. I've never heard of this term until now, but I suppose I never had need to.

 

Apple's core advantage is that the OS and hardware are designed, engineered and tested together. Yes, they buy components from people who are experts at making CPUs, hard drives, graphics cards, etc. But Apple actually designs many chips, including major ones, such as the iPhone/iPad's A5 CPU, and invests in some component manufacturers, such as display manufacturers. This helps them maintain quality and ensure supply. Even without such investment Apple's volume of sales gives them early access to test versions of unreleased CPUs and lets them request custom configurations from other suppliers. And of course they design their own circuit boards, too.

 

The result are products that every millimeter was purposefully designed and engineered. To the eye and to the touch, they give the look and feel of quality. The last major PC maker Windows laptop I bought, by comparison, felt like something heavy in cheap plastic, even down to the keyboard keys. I suppose if I hadn't become used to the feel of Apple laptops I wouldn't have this realization every time I pick up the Windows laptop. I'm not saying the Windows laptop is junk, just that its use of lower-cost materials makes a noticeable difference.

 

But I like Apple products for more than just for the hardware. I'm very happy to have an OS with a unix core, able to develop iOS software on, goes months without a restart, never needs disk defragmenting, etc. There are lots of things I value that makes them worth the price (usually 0%-30% higher). If I wanted a big box of swappable parts, I would buy a Windows PC or maybe save up for a way-overpowered (for my needs) Mac Pro. But generally I like doing things *with* my computer, not *to* my computer, so iMacs and MacBooks suit me just fine.

Edited March 11, 2012 by ArkhamNative

[Game-Hermit]

Bring it. Link the active viruses for the Mac.

 

Start now.

Mac doesn't have less viruses because it's more secure. It has less viruses because nobody wants to make software for a platform with only 10.7% market share, not even hackers. It has less viruses because it has less of ALL software, and no iphone apps don't count.

[Niizmo]

PC's can do anything a Mac can. Thats even down to running there os. Mac are just over priced and for the true gamer a waist of time. Apple are of the way down sadly. Android has them beat on the Mobile and Tablet market. They have never been a worry to Microsoft when it comes tp PC's. Even MS are in the mobile market now are are slowly making a big hit to.

 

Apple really need to come up with something new over there whole range of produces as everthing theve done has already been done or is surpassed very quickly.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Niizmo

[Niizmo]

Well , tell me 5 good games coming out this years that hardcore gamers will want to play ?

 

Currently all the exclusive games list is Kinect games that I don't really think I will ever buy.

 

Each year on xbox I see only 1~2 games that are either Gears of war sequel or Halo sequel , I can't understand doesn't xbox gamers get tired of Microsoft milking a same game with a bit better graphics with some new maps ?

 

===============================

 

For ATI part, the structure part I am not sure, but the card is made by ATI so I can't really believe whatever you wrote.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think so, They came first but currently at this point xbox doesn't have any game worth playing.

 

Xbox is like halo, gears of war fan console only

 

There is 2 games , one of them comes out every year and all the rest games comes out on both console.

 

I cant believe you know nothing about the most popular current gen gaming console.

[lineschmidt]

You can't make iOS games on PC.

 

And http://www.sevenforums.com/performance-maintenance/15288-why-does-any-windows-get-slow-over-time.html

 

you can find more of it , google it, internet is full of this complains.

Actually i can make IOS games on a pc, i just can't compile them on it

 

And really, you think paying twice the hardware value is justified by being able to compile IOS games?

 

Meanwhile you're missing out on the vast majority of games and software

 

Internet is full of complains but it's also full of people who have no idea how to tweak and secure their system. The only thing that proves is those people are computer illiterate