DarthBubba Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Hello. I'm running a Tactics Vanguard and have been enjoying it alot in pve so far. I'm at lv 46 and was wondering if this spec will work as well in pvp as it does in pve? My spec is http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/trooper/specialist/#::e7fe7fe2fe2f2ef8ef10ef13: I love the fact that I hardly ever run out of ammo. I have noticed in pvp that I either do extremely well or extremely poor. It seems very situational. Huttball I'm either in the top three or near the bottom. I'm not sure why I have such an extreme difference between some matches. I will say though that I get a little bit frustrated at times because I feel i have way too MANY abilities. There's just so many fights where Im like if I had only just used this or that I would have won and I know that comes from experience and time but It's still a bit frustrating. Should I just go to assault or tank spec for pvp or keep going with what I'm doing? I really enjoy the fluidity of Tactics but it's much harder in pvp. I am no stranger to kiting but still have a hard time doing it especially when I need to jump/turn and shoot and the ability I want to use is on my number 9 key or some crap. I have most of my good abilities hotkeyed but still there's just so many I need to be able to use to be successfull that feel so frustratingly out of reach when I need them. And I've learned that it's a very bad idea to just stand in place and try to out dps people. I'm at my best when I have obstacles to mess with people's los or when kiting them. Anyway, sorry I didn't mean to turn this into a rant about keybindings and crap. I'm just wanting some advice from people who have done Tactics and how they held up in pvp. Do you'll do just fine or not? I'd also like to hear from someone who's tried tactics along with assault and or tanking spec and can tell me if they thought one worked much better in pvp than the other and why. Thank you for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BardaTheHobo Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Well, I do both tactics and assault, switching back and forth. Tactics is a good spec with awesome pvp and some good single target burst. Assault is all about single target burst. From running both this is what I have concluded. Tactics is good in warzones, its a good team build imo, Hold The Line is just epic in Huttball. One v one its not as powerful as assault. Assault is good in both warzones and Ilum. Tactics never runs out of ammo while assault can run into ammo problems so in longer fights, Tactics seems to come out on top because of the extra ammo. Bottom line, Tactics is awesome but requires a decent team around it, it is not a "lone wolf" spec. Assault can be used in all situations to success but can run into heavy ammo problems. P.S. Tactics is just awesome in voidstar, 5x Pulse Generator just rips grouped up people Here is my tactics build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMbZMsMrRrfkbsZb.1 Or this: Not much change, Bu I think this one is better, and tat 1 point in SS damage can be put in anything really: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZMsMrRrfkbsZo.1 and a little video I made with the spec. I have gotten a lot better since making this video tho. But thats how I personally improve, I make videos post them, watch it over and over and point out my own mistakes and see what other people say I do wrong then improve Edited February 28, 2012 by BardaTheHobo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coramac Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Hello. I'm running a Tactics Vanguard and have been enjoying it alot in pve so far. I'm at lv 46 and was wondering if this spec will work as well in pvp as it does in pve? My spec is http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/trooper/specialist/#::e7fe7fe2fe2f2ef8ef10ef13: Drop the point in Kolto Recharge. It's bad. Pick up Shock Absorbers. I'd take the second point for Shock Absorbers from Steely Resolve or Frontline Defense. I love the fact that I hardly ever run out of ammo. I have noticed in pvp that I either do extremely well or extremely poor. It seems very situational. Huttball I'm either in the top three or near the bottom. I'm not sure why I have such an extreme difference between some matches. Tactics is a situational build. In this respect, it's somewhat like the Focus spec for Knights. The Focus tree has a lot of nice abilities, but if you aren't hitting powered up sweeps, the tree is basically worthless. While not as important as Sweep in Focus, if you aren't hitting powered up Pulse Cannons, Tactics doesn't perform nearly as well. Additionally, your range is 10m with Tactics. Assault's engagement range is 30m. This, by definition, makes a Tactics build more situation. Assault is effective at all ranges with increased effectiveness at 10m. Additional effectivenss is gained when able to get into melee range with Stock Strike; however, this isn't a requirement and Assault is quite effective at 10m. Tactics isn't effective outside of 10m. Tactics also has a huge drop in effectiveness outside of melee range unlike Assault. Tactics is reliant on Gut (or other players) to use HIB and loses out on both Battering Ram and Combat Tactics when not in melee range. This is not to say that Assault is better, but at 30m, Assault can engage with Incendiary Round, Assault Plastique, HIB (Incendiary Round gives the dot), 9% increased damage Hammer Shot, 9% increased damage Full Auto, and has a good chance to proc Plasma Cell for more damage at this range. It's very important to note that this engagement range not only gives Assault more flexibility while gap closing, but it also allows for superior target swapping and aquisition beyond the 10m range. I think this is really playing to the inconsistency you feel with the spec. Depending on the class composition of your opponents you can really feel it. If they are mostly ranged who don't bunch up, you are going to greatly suffer in Tactics. Assault will suffer but not on nearly the same level. I will say though that I get a little bit frustrated at times because I feel i have way too MANY abilities. There's just so many fights where Im like if I had only just used this or that I would have won and I know that comes from experience and time but It's still a bit frustrating. Should I just go to assault or tank spec for pvp or keep going with what I'm doing? I really enjoy the fluidity of Tactics but it's much harder in pvp. I am no stranger to kiting but still have a hard time doing it especially when I need to jump/turn and shoot and the ability I want to use is on my number 9 key or some crap. A few things here: 1.) All the specs and all the classes pretty much have "too many abilities." You adapt overtime. 2.) You have to get better with hotkeys. If you are using '9' for an ability, you are at a pretty big disadvantage. That's going to require a reach and taking your fingers off the movement keys. Personally, I'm against using any numbers beyond '5'. Make sure you are using Shift, Control, and Alt as modifiers. If you don't mind spending some cash, get a Naga mouse. It's probably the single biggest QoL purchase you can make for gaming. 3.) Do not jump turn in this game for kiting. You actually slow down when you jump in SWTOR. In games where jump turning is a good practice, you do not lose forward momentum. However, you don't need to here either. Learn to strafe run effectively. This will not decrease your forward speed and will allow you to fire on a target without the jump turn. That being said, you really don't have to worry about kiting as much in Tactics. Kiting is much more of an Assault tree function. Tactics doesn't have a snare and only has a small movement speed increase. It's really not effective for kiting especially given the fact that it loses so much damage outside of melee range. Anyway, sorry I didn't mean to turn this into a rant about keybindings and crap. I'm just wanting some advice from people who have done Tactics and how they held up in pvp. Do you'll do just fine or not? I'd also like to hear from someone who's tried tactics along with assault and or tanking spec and can tell me if they thought one worked much better in pvp than the other and why. Thank you for reading. I've tried Tactics. It's not a bad build for PvP, but it is much more of a pressure / niche build. Assault runs the gamut. There are virtually no situations that reduce your effectiveness. If you play smart, you have immense survivability through the ability to fight at all ranges effectively. In Civil War and Voidstar, the 18 second 30m dot is absolutely phenomenal. The burst of Assault is substantial at all ranges and terrifying up close. It is ammo intensive, but you also have the ability to slow down and deal out strong pressure at all ranges. Note about Hold the Line: This has to be one of the most overrated abilities out there. It doesn't protect against stun or interupts. When you use it, you get a very noticiable graphic that says to everyone "Stun me!" or "I'm about to use a channeled ability- get ready to interupt!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBubba Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 TY so much for posting. Actually I'd already dropped the colto recharge and have 1 pt on shock absorbers. I would like to get the 2nd pt in it and will probably do what the second poster said. I'm gonna stick with Tactics for a bit. I think the reason I do so bad or well does depende on the team. In a good team I seem to shine while with a bad team I stink lol. I do appreciate all of the advice though and will probably try all the trees out soon. I think I'll see how tactics does at 50. I know it's gonna be rough with no good pvp gear. I don't pvp that much, at least on this character I haven't. I'd planned on leveling valor as I went but got caught up in the storyline and put pvp off. I do want to try assault soon. It looks pretty fun. The only thing I absolutely don't like is feeling like I'm so dependant on a variety of skills to be effective. I will probably need to change up how I have everything situated and hotkeyed just for pvp. I don't think I'm going to be very effective until I do that. Ok, if anyone else has any advice I will be grateful for it. So far I'm really enjoying the Vanguard trooper and I'm very glad I didn't go commando. I kinda like moving around alot and had enough of sit and shoot with my sorcerer. Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBubba Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Read through your post a 2nd time Coramac. Some very good advice. I have no idea why I havne't set anything up with my alt and ctrl keys. Gonna do that today and then I'm gonna have to practice alot to remember where all my keys are. Yeah, I feel very situational. It's not bad but I think I'd rather go for consistant. I don't really care for tank classes which is why I picked the Trooper. I was hoping I'd have good survivability and decent dps in the bargain and I think I will. Just gonna take alot of practice to get it all down. And yeah, anything above the 6 key for me means having to look away from the screen, not to mention trying to find all my relics and less used abilities that are very situational but still help in a bind. I so want a good five button mouse. Gonna have to buy one soon. I actually kinda like that mouse/keyboard on that insert that came with the game. Gonna look it up and see if it's any good. It looks pretty cool. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logosta Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 To sum it up, they are both viable builds that play off of their key abilities. Players have been able to attain very high DPS with either spec, and you should play the one that suits your playstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logosta Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZrsMrRrbzdsZb.1 I run this spec for both PVP and PVE. I use gut solely as a means of keeping people off of nodes/doors and to fire my HiB. It is a poor damage dealer. Containment tactics would be great, but I feel the 4 points to get it can be spent better elsewhere (ie., increasing aim by 9% which buffs substantially all of the vanguard's damage). Kolto recharge can be substituted for 1 point in power armor, but you need one or the other to get to the next tier within the tactics tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregMD Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Tactics seems like it'd be the best pvp tree for vanguards but it's really mediocre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armyfreed Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 As having played both specs tactics/assult i personnally like Assult. The DPS output is high i tend to have a lot of people target me in PVP. AS i am only lvl 40 though i don't have all the abilities of the other tree.. I plan on going http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801ZMsrZfhrbzGhrs.1 when done. The burst from assult is amazing. I can take mauraders down b4 they get to me usually, or pretty damn close to it. I do have a Razor naga mouse which helps out a ton. If you can manage your ammo and watch it... you can achieve amazing results in pvp. As i am not in a guild yet i have to get a healer to heal me but usually no prob there. Note that i went 10 into tactics for the reduced dam to me and the Boost i get on my Ion Pulse. I already tear people to shreads. I might take out the 2 from damage reduction and put it in the tank tree to get the + to HiB not sure yet will have to test it. Bottom line is play what you think is good for your playstyle. I personally was tactics for a long time till i realized assults potential. If dont right your going to rock socks. GL in your endevour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fafryd Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I had a fair optimal situation in voidstar last night. Popped all my DPS cooldowns and had the entire enemy team in pulse cannon range... generating high crits through the channel. Was a truly remarkable 3 seconds of damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phixler Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) I run full tactics all the time, and yes I use high energy cell. It's a very under rated spec. The main difference is that with tactics you know your burst potential at all times, with assault some of your burst depends on procs and can be less than a tactics burst, or better. With tactics a full burst will not beat a full assault burst, but I find it to still be solid and reliable burst. Not to mention the constant move speed + hold the line to be amazing as well as almost infinite ammo. Lastly I find assault to be a very boring spec. Granted most classes in this game don't have more than 1 rotation, but with tactics you atleast have 2 main rotations which I find keeps me amused a bit longer.....even if 1 of them involves spamming ion pulse 5 times lol... Either way, just look at the trees and pick what you like. I tell you this, someone else tells you that, in the end you do what you like and you make it work. Edit: Here is my main spec: http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/trooper/specialist/#::efe2de2fe7fe5f2ef8ef10ef13: Also, I solo almost exclusively at all times because I work 2nd shift. 1v1's no problem other than a few classes/builds, wz's no problem at all and usually lead damage by a mile. Edited March 2, 2012 by Phixler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zendokun Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I leveled with Tactics and I've got to say it's my preferred spec of choice by taste. However, I'm not completely sure it beats assault spec dps-wise and it sure does not beat shield spec for survivability. I'd play with tactics if I were mainly just doing PvP ... but since I'm also trying to figure out the raiding scene for dps I'm currently using an Assault spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suuke Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Caramac, What does your assualt build look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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