Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 actually i didn't play vanilla after we beat KT in naxx 40 (took a break from the game until BC came out and played DOTA.) i never saw TBC skills with I resubbed for TBC. i do remember not getting realm first raz because alliance DI'd the controller or some such cheese. I'm calling false. There was 2 to 3 months at most between the upper echelon of the "normal" guilds taking down KT and BC's launch. By "normal" guilds, I mean the guilds that are not professionally sponsored. Keep in mind, that Naxx40 was cleared by only like 2% of the raiding population pre-BC. Also, keep in mind that when BC's launch date was announced, so many raiders took a break that a great number of guilds stopped running anything at all. There was a lot of noise on the WoW forums about that back in the day. Many, many complaints over the upcoming gear reset in BC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm calling false. There was 2 to 3 months at most between the upper echelon of the "normal" guilds taking down KT and BC's launch. By "normal" guilds, I mean the guilds that are not professionally sponsored. Keep in mind, that Naxx40 was cleared by only like 2% of the raiding population pre-BC. Also, keep in mind that when BC's launch date was announced, so many raiders took a break that a great number of guilds stopped running anything at all. There was a lot of noise on the WoW forums about that back in the day. Many, many complaints over the upcoming gear reset in BC. my guild was top 10 in progression (horde) during vanilla. no, we weren't sponsored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I don't really know about that but i wasn't doing highend raiding untill end of BC. I considered myself as a casual player, even started out as Roleplayer. But my experience showed my that this "subset of the mmo genre population" wasnt as small as you try to make it here...As I said i was an RP player on a RP Server...but we had loads of raids in vanilla...and that was just on a RP server...so imagine the PVE and PVP servers Ofc if you talk about ppl like FTH and Nihilum i agree...the population on this level was very small...but it was them Who made WoW such a great game...without ppl like this IMO every MMO will die If you cleared BT before Wrath launched - you were in a very small subset of the raiding population of WoW in BC. If you do not believe me, then ponder on how many people needed to clear Black Temple to get their achievement in Wrath. People with specific raid drops from Black Temple would have already received those achievements when Wrath launched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) my guild was top 10 in progression (horde) during vanilla. no, we weren't sponsored. Sorry, I don't believe you. You have too many "facts" incorrect with your posts to convince me that you were a "top 10" of anything. For you to claim the game was so easy and then claim you were Horde makes it even worse. I might have given you some merit if you had claimed you were Alliance, as it was much easier to raid as Alliance during Vanilla. Edited March 2, 2012 by Raeln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terebor Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) It's pretty easy to tell that the majority of MMO players do not want a great challenge in their game. They want to be able to do something in game with their online friends and feel like their character is stronger for the investment. Banging heads against the wall in the name of challenge typically just causes drama and sucks the entertainment out of the experience for many players. I don't see a problem in having something for both...is that so hard to realize? The majority is makeing sure that BW makes money for their effort, the players for challenge make sure that the community stays alive... Is it the video where someone does something completely nuts that gets u interested or is it the video where u see a 8man ops facerolling through EV? Is it more interesting to watch 1 guy fight 2 opponents (and beat them) or is it more fun to watch a 1 vs 1 where rnd guy wins? be honest Its the minority of players beeing the salt in an else flavorless soup. Edited March 2, 2012 by Terebor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 If you cleared BT before Wrath launched - you were in a very small subset of the raiding population of WoW in BC. If you do not believe me, then ponder on how many people needed to clear Black Temple to get their achievement in Wrath. People with specific raid drops from Black Temple would have already received those achievements when Wrath launched. Wrath was released almost a year and half after Black Temple patch. There was Sunwell in between. We cleared both. And so far, none of the SWTOR fights compare to any of the bosses in either BT or Sunwell in difficulty at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Sorry, I don't believe you. You have too many "facts" incorrect with your posts to convince me that you were a "top 10" of anything. For you to claim the game was so easy and then claim you were Horde makes it even worse. I might have given you some merit if you had claimed you were Alliance, as it was much easier to raid as Alliance during Vanilla. where am i saying vanilla was easy? oh well, i don't need geek cred with you. you thought tier 1 cata raids weren't faceroll. that says plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I don't see a problem in having something for both...is that so hard to realize? I agree with Terebor absolutely. Nothing is preventing BW from keeping both the casual as well as the hardcore customer base happy at the same time. There are three modes of difficulties for a reason. All they needed to do was make Nightmare mode actually challenging with new mechanics. Right now everything is faceroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) I don't see a problem in having something for both...is that so hard to realize? The majority is makeing sure that BW makes money for their effort, the players for challenge make sure that the community stays alive... Is it the video where someone does something completely nuts that gets u interested or is it the video where u see a 8man ops facerolling through EV? Is it more interesting to watch 1 guy fight 2 opponents (and beat them) or is it more fun to watch a 1 vs 1 where rnd guy wins? be honest There is something for both - or rather, should be. Nightmare mode should be for those that want headache inducing challenge. Obviously, the current round of nightmare modes must not be tuned correctly. As for videos, I do not watch video game videos except for skipping through a rare extreme soloing video that nutty mage used to make in WoW. I would even prefer to not watch boss fight videos but most people are not interested in figuring the fight out for ourselves and would rather watch someone tell them how to do it. ^ that little tidbit reinforces my assertion that people don't really want challenge, by the way. I also avoid PvP videos. They rarely are intellectually honest and are usually skewed to only show the character doing the pwning and not being pwned. Edited March 2, 2012 by Raeln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wrath was released almost a year and half after Black Temple patch. There was Sunwell in between. We cleared both. And so far, none of the SWTOR fights compare to any of the bosses in either BT or Sunwell in difficulty at all. It doesn't matter if the BT patch was 2 years before Wrath - if you actually cleared Sunwell, then you are within an extremely small subset of the WoW player population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) where am i saying vanilla was easy? oh well, i don't need geek cred with you. you thought tier 1 cata raids weren't faceroll. that says plenty. 1 month after release, they were not. Do you not remember them getting massive nerfs? I certainly remember at least one patch where some of those Cata raid bosses received 20% nerfs to their total health. Some mechanics were removed, etc... I also remember the first content patch getting split into two and delayed because not enough people had cleared the first tier of Cataclysm raids. This happened when they started bleeding subscriptions. Edited March 2, 2012 by Raeln Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzras Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 1 month after release, they were not. That was due to bugs and people sick and tired of Ony coming back from the grave... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 That was due to bugs and people sick and tired of Ony coming back from the grave... Not really!! Sinestra, Heroic Al'akir, Heroic Ascendant Council and Heroic Nefarian were all pretty tough fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terebor Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 There is something for both - or rather, should be. Nightmare mode should be for those that want headache inducing challenge. Obviously, the current round of nightmare modes must not be tuned correctly. As for videos, I do not watch video game videos except for skipping through a rare extreme soloing video that nutty mage used to make in WoW. I would even prefer to not watch boss fight videos but most people are not interested in figuring the fight out for ourselves and would rather watch someone tell them how to do it. ^ that little tidbit reinforces my assertion that people don't really want challenge, by the way. I also avoid PvP videos. They rarely are intellectually honest and are usually skewed to only show the character doing the pwning and not being pwned. Just because U don't like watching stuff like that don't think others don't aswell...i'm very sure that the majority of players watches video's even if its just to find out shard locations etc. So in this case u dont really represent a majority. Thats a guess but i'm sure its a good one... Ok so watching boss vid takes the challenge? thats what u think? hhmm knowing how something works doesnt make u actually able to do it. I know how Engine works...could i Build one? i doubt it...would it be no challenge? i doubt it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellison Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I agree with the OP, and I jumped ship long before the pathetic pandas & pokemon fail parade due to it's troll community, anonymity abusers and pathetically easy content in all categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 1 month after release, they were not. Do you not remember them getting massive nerfs? I certainly remember at least one patch where some of those Cata raid bosses received 20% nerfs to their total health. Some mechanics were removed, etc... I also remember the first content patch getting split into two and delayed because not enough people had cleared the first tier of Cataclysm raids. This happened when they started bleeding subscriptions. We are getting closer to 3 months than 2 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terebor Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Not really!! Sinestra, Heroic Al'akir, Heroic Ascendant Council and Heroic Nefarian were all pretty tough fights. /agree 1 mistake usually ment a wipe...prenerf ofc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaperchris Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 While I hate the bloated blizzard monster pig as much the the next guy, to suggest that swtor has even a fraction of its content is laughable, no matter how you look at it. With 3 years of dev love swtor still couldnt match that behemoth for content... I find it hard to believe that you don't like Blizzard because your "fact" is laughable and shows that you know nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The "months of 40 man runs to get what you want" seems like more content because you had to run weeks and weeks of dungeons to get the fire resist gear to enable you to bang your head on the wall while trying to down each boss in MC. Been there, done that. I prefer the TOR model, thanks. This i love how people love to say wow had more content, when in reality they are confusing "tedium" with "more content" having to farm mobs endlessly in sliithius (*******st zone in any game ever , i swear i had nightmares about the place) to build nature resist gear for ONE encounter while newtering your stats was just that, tedium to the extreme not to be confused with "extra content" , once you got everyone you needed in NR gear , the fight was stupidly easy and as boring and bland as the rest of that godforsaken raid i too prefer Tors model, i can enjoy the game rather than having to learn advanced math to complete a one time a week raid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 MC was a cakewalk if you did it while wearing BC gear. If you did it in level appropriate dungeon gear, it was very difficult. Especially if you tried to do it before Decursive was written to assist with the multitude of debuffs. Oh and as Horde, it was much easier in BC after paladins came to the Horde. MC was a pain, Horde-side without paladins. Doable, but more difficult than Alliance. lets not even talk about the nefarian shaman VS paladin calls... paladin call = nefarian gets healed and a bubble shaman call = nefarian gets WF , strenght totem, poison cleansing totem , while you were chain lighting the raid and purging people (back when purge removed 2 buffs) it was pretty lulzy but man i wiped my raid soooo many times , nefarian simply looooooved to screw us over like that you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terebor Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 i too prefer Tors model, i can enjoy the game rather than having to learn advanced math to complete a one time a week raid Wow if you had to do this to be successful you must have done something awfully wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terebor Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) lets not even talk about the nefarian shaman VS paladin calls... paladin call = nefarian gets healed and a bubble shaman call = nefarian gets WF , strenght totem, poison cleansing totem , while you were chain lighting the raid and purging people (back when purge removed 2 buffs) it was pretty lulzy but man i wiped my raid soooo many times , nefarian simply looooooved to screw us over like that you know... Huntercall: "fwaaaacccc*** i forgot 2 switch bow" *_* Druidcall: Go ***** mode Edited March 2, 2012 by Terebor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Wow if you had to do this to be successful you must have done something awfully wrong congrats , you advance to the next level in this level , we will learn basic common sense, reading between the lines , and how to actually make an argument rather than ironic pointless banter good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Huntercall: "fwaaaacccc*** i forgot 2 switch bow" *_* Druidcall: Go ***** mode LOL omg i forgot about those! awsome you never had the "why my abilties wont work? " hunter in your guild? EQUIP YOUR ARROWS FOOL ! lol , those were goodtimes i admit, BWL and neffy will always hold a special spot in my heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terebor Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) congrats , you advance to the next level in this level , we will learn basic common sense, reading between the lines , and how to actually make an argument rather than ironic pointless banter good luck! i was just saying that i never had to do any nr crunching to achieve what i wanted....if you got a prob with that dude...its yours not mine and it wasnt ironic at all...if you know what irony is Edit: dont take it to serious its all just for the funsies Edited March 2, 2012 by Terebor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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