Yfelsung Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Old AV was the best ! We even had some program to "premade" if you remember So everyone in the group was fully in the fight, everyone had a role, some on Def some on Capping and some in frontline. Alot of fun. Even without doing the premade trick, before Xrealm BGs people on your server would actually listen to a leader. I won several AVs while sitting in our base with the map open just commanding people. Sure, my stats were terrible, but I found it really enjoyable playing WoW as a semi-RTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winteria Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 and waiting for a raid group to go to MC and kill them as they were going down.....yes it was fun lol but that was not by game design thats just what we (the community) did Oh we had our Raid grp each day, needed a good guild to plan 40 mans raid while gearing each of them. That was alot of frustration and alot of fun at same time.. 40 mans raids is no more.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigBee Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) MY point being Great community + great content = perfect game great community + crappy content = still can have fun crappy community + great content = no fun at all have yet to fine first option Edited February 23, 2012 by TheBigBee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winteria Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Even without doing the premade trick, before Xrealm BGs people on your server would actually listen to a leader. I won several AVs while sitting in our base with the map open just commanding people. Sure, my stats were terrible, but I found it really enjoyable playing WoW as a semi-RTS. Yes it was a blast. I remember some great leaders, well known from the ppl on server used to give Orders and make us win from that commander position you talk about... most of the time they were hidding in a secret corner doing nothing but telling us what to do. It was like a military efficiency group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winteria Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 MY point being Great community + great content = perfect game great community + crappy content = still can have fun crappy community + great content = no fun at all have yet to fine first option Yeah for sure. The Ops leader in Wz get blasted in every round these days... most of the time no one try and listen to other. (Except the good guilds) I think the community get worst like you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaramukhti Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 What about Gw2 will have 3 servers fighting each other during 2 weeks for supremacy in a Huge Battleground filled with all kind of stuff including Npcs. After each battles reroll with new servers and do again. Meanwhile we have Nothing to spend our time on... I want something big, not just another same faction warzone ... as for end game I think GW2 will still bring more reasons to play than the buggy and boring raids of TOR and the grind fest in Wz. (not even speaking of Ilum here) except this boring grind That still won't be enough - people WILL (not a guess, they will) consume all the content faster than ArenaNet can push it out in the beginning. That is just how gamers work. They always push content limits to the breaking point. At that point, you'll get the complaints that ArenaNet didn't put enough work into some areas, didn't show enough love to others, and if anything goes wrong with the RvR system in GW2 (bugs happen in all games), there will be those flaming ArenaNet left and right, unjustified or no. I wouldn't dream of saying GW2 is going to fail or succeed. It is too early for any arguments to be made in either direction. I AM saying, however, that things are not always going to go smoothly, even in GW2 - gamers should prepare for that, because it is a fact of life. Content, especially launch content, is only going to stretch so far. After that, you have to give the devs time to catch up. GW2 is going to be in this same position after hardcore players eat up all its content in the first few months, then my guess is you will be having this same conversation on GW2 forums asking the fervid masses to be patient and give ANet more time. That's just the way it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 That still won't be enough - people WILL (not a guess, they will) consume all the content faster than ArenaNet can push it out in the beginning. That is just how gamers work. They always push content limits to the breaking point. At that point, you'll get the complaints that ArenaNet didn't put enough work into some areas, didn't show enough love to others, and if anything goes wrong with the RvR system in GW2 (bugs happen in all games), there will be those flaming ArenaNet left and right, unjustified or no. I wouldn't dream of saying GW2 is going to fail or succeed. It is too early for any arguments to be made in either direction. I AM saying, however, that things are not always going to go smoothly, even in GW2 - gamers should prepare for that, because it is a fact of life. Content, especially launch content, is only going to stretch so far. After that, you have to give the devs time to catch up. GW2 is going to be in this same position after hardcore players eat up all its content in the first few months, then my guess is you will be having this same conversation on GW2 forums asking the fervid masses to be patient and give ANet more time. That's just the way it goes. People excitement for GW2 is based on the fact it's a game that takes PvP as seriously as PvE. Something the MMO world hasn't seen in a long time. As a pure-PvP player, I'm excited at the idea of a game that hands me a fully leveled character when I want to do Conquest (their Warzones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necodreus Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Most fun Ive ever had pvping, is eq 1 on a pvp server from 98 to 02. Only able to attack someone, within 4 lvls, get 25 + person raids together to do hate/fear, have another guild enter. Combat ensues over spawns trying to train eachother, and get the kill. Every class was needed and every ablility to try and flip mobs, or get kills. One battle took 4 hrs in Hate while we fought a three guild battle over innoruk man that was intense. And this was when you had to /corpse to a safe spot to get equipment back and lost xp. Brutal stuff and there was barely any voice communications. Will it fix this games pvp? No, Mmos need time yo evolve and that can take six months to a year. Did some things should have been better implemented? yes, but business is about money and 6 years in development and hundreds of millions of dollars spent, they needed to get the game out, and start making money. Content devoured faster than a blackhole. Well duh.. unsub for a while comeback later if you have that much free time. Its taken me 2 mnths to finally hit 50. Are Wz fustrating and needing more yes, it will happen though. Have patience or go do other things and come back when game is a yr old and polished better. Me ill stick around enjoying the game, bugs and balance issues all, because MMOs are always in flux for better and worse and seeing where it goes is what keeps me intetested... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaramukhti Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) People excitement for GW2 is based on the fact it's a game that takes PvP as seriously as PvE. Something the MMO world hasn't seen in a long time. As a pure-PvP player, I'm excited at the idea of a game that hands me a fully leveled character when I want to do Conquest (their Warzones). What made the original GW successful was its focus on PvP. I wouldn't have expected ArenaNet to shift that focus. That is their bread and butter. It's a smart move to stick with their strength. I will admit, I like many of ANet's ideas on PvE for GW2. In fact, it made me lol just a bit that they have taken steps to emulate Bioware & Bethesda style story principles in this newest installment of the GW franchise. I guess if you're going to put in story, you go to the masters. Having said that, they are, first and foremost, ideas right now. Unproven. Untested ideas. Testing tends to reveal things about ideas that make you have to shift things around a bit. I don't expect GW2 to be any different. Hell, they already had to get rid of companions, which was something they wanted to do early on. It's all a part of the ongoing process, and what exists now in theory may not be there later in practice. Also, I still don't feel confident GW2 is going to break the trend of players outgaining content. You can't account for gamer speed, no matter how hard you try. No game has ever done it (not even WoW). Gamers consume content at blinding speed, and they will do so in GW2 as easily as they did in WoW, or EQ, or SWTOR, or any other game. When that happens, it will be GW2 loyalists' job to ask for more time on behalf of ANet the way some SWTOR fans are asking for it on behalf of Bioware. It's just the way of things. Edited February 23, 2012 by Jaramukhti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 What made GW2 successful was its focus on PvP. I wouldn't have expected ArenaNet to shift that focus. That is their bread and butter. It's a smart move to stick with their strength. I will admit, I like many of ANet's ideas on PvE for GW2. In fact, it made me lol just a bit that they have taken steps to emulate Bioware & Bethesda style story principles in this newest installment of GW2. I guess if you're going to put in story, you go to the masters. Having said that, they are, first and foremost, ideas right now. Unproven. Untested ideas. Testing tends to reveal things about ideas that make you have to shift things around a bit. I don't expect GW2 to be any different. Hell, they already had to get rid of companions, which was something they wanted to do early on. It's all a part of the ongoing process, and what exists now in theory may not be there later in practice. Also, I still don't feel confident GW2 is going to break the trend of players outgaining content. You can't account for gamer speed, no matter how hard you try. No game has ever done it (not even WoW). Gamers consume content at blinding speed, and they will do so in GW2 as easily as they did in WoW, or EQ, or SWTOR, or any other game. When that happens, it will be GW2 loyalists' job to ask for more time on behalf of ANet the way some SWTOR fans are asking for it on behalf of Bioware. It's just the way of things. PvE content will always expire. But well designed PvP content never does. People have been playing Dust on CS for a decade or more. I'm never going to touch GW2's PvE content, so I don't care how fast it gets eaten. I don't do PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewgal Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I actually think that the best way to sort out Ilum world PvP issues is simply to outmode the PvP content and put RvR worlds into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaramukhti Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 PvE content will always expire. But well designed PvP content never does. People have been playing Dust on CS for a decade or more. I'm never going to touch GW2's PvE content, so I don't care how fast it gets eaten. I don't do PvE. That is awesome for gamers like you, who live for PvP, and don't intend to, nor need to, engage in PvE to enjoy your mmo - but there are just as many who see it the same way, only in reverse (PvE>PvP). One of the reasons GW2 has the hype it does, as you pointed out, is because of its focus on equal PvP and PvE content. I am just saying, don't be surprised if you, a PvP enthusiast, end up trying to convince PvE players who have blown through all the content very quickly to stay. PvE gamers make up that server population, too. Right now, I think GW2 is going to be very solid on the PvP side. I am just not convinced they will be able to appease the PvE crowd long enough between content additions to keep some from openly griping about it on forums like some are doing for SWTOR. It wouldn't surprise me at all if, months from release, we see similar threads to this pop up on the GW2 boards. That's how the cookie crumbles in MMO titles. Launch content always has a pretty short expiration date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaramukhti Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I actually think that the best way to sort out Ilum world PvP issues is simply to outmode the PvP content and put RvR worlds into the game. Personally, I would love to see RvR in SWTOR. I am just not sure it will happen (or at least not anytime soon). I am definitely keeping a close eye on 1.2 to see what it brings to the table. Since we know next to nothing about the new Denova warzone, it is anybody's guess how it will set up once the patch is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winteria Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 That is awesome for gamers like you, who live for PvP, and don't intend to, nor need to, engage in PvE to enjoy your mmo - but there are just as many who see it the same way, only in reverse (PvE>PvP). One of the reasons GW2 has the hype it does, as you pointed out, is because of its focus on equal PvP and PvE content. I am just saying, don't be surprised if you, a PvP enthusiast, end up trying to convince PvE players who have blown through all the content very quickly to stay. PvE gamers make up that server population, too. Right now, I think GW2 is going to be very solid on the PvP side. I am just not convinced they will be able to appease the PvE crowd long enough between content additions to keep some from openly griping about it on forums like some are doing for SWTOR. It wouldn't surprise me at all if, months from release, we see similar threads to this pop up on the GW2 boards. That's how the cookie crumbles in MMO titles. Launch content always has a pretty short expiration date. Hopefully in GW2 ppl wont reach cap lvl of 80 in a week like many did in TOR... Aside from the nice voice acting and storyline, SWTOR dont shine that much. Lets say that GW2 will be a "normal" game with average pvp so if it reveal ultra awesome we'll be rewarded too much hype lead into deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeborn Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I think it is very likely too late. Pessimism doesn't need to be a Darkside trait you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeborn Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) What is this mass exodus you speak of? My server is still heavy during almost peak time...less than 5 min ques for wZ and multiple wz running at the same time on my 50. My alt 43 gets almost instant ques Honestly I believe some here might be hired ranters. I really do think it's possible with all he shenanigans with online reviews as of late. My server pop is down a tad, but not bad and most of the children were kicked out of my guild (200) long ago. We have one of the better PvP guilds and highest PvE of the bunch. Overall people like the game, and are honest about the problems it has too. I've said my peace a few times to people who are just negative for want as for anything else. Edited February 23, 2012 by Daeborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lansang Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 its normal people are leaving after free months or two....someone likes the game someone not its normal for every mmorpg i just hit 50 and started 50 WZ.. it sucks when people can 3hit you and winning and loosing WZ is not about skills but its more about gear gap.. u cant enjoy when u keep getting a free win cuz u can 3 hit majority of the opposing team.. or when the opposing team is better geared and ur team mostly has undergeared players.. i dnt know ryt ow im thinking of quiting the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeborn Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hopefully in GW2 ppl wont reach cap lvl of 80 GW2 will not have traditional leveling. Bad comparison because they are not even close to the same. I will play GW2 also, but I am not going to do comparisons with TOR anymore than I do with WoW. And GW2 is as different there. I maxed 85 on my Rouge in WoW in just over a month btw. I hit 50 in TOR in 3 weeks. Do the math... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlis Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 As long as the devs have their little OP imp class nothing is ever going to get done. Just look at all the trailers and see what they were playing. Thats the reason NOTHING is getting done. Patch 1.2 is simply a pacifier they are sticking in your mouth while they are ramming something else up your behind. Until the imp devs want to change, nothing substantial is going to get done. If they wanted to they could have handled factional imbalance by forcing an equal number till planet cap then ALL overflow goes to the next instance. But then the little OP dev classes wouldnt have rebs to zerg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahor Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Only if they work hard on class balance. And one-button spam skills have to go. I mean hey, where is the skill need when you just can perma press Heat Seaker or Lightning? If you like this we can remove all other abilitys and just introduce AK-47 and M1A1 .. happy CS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lansang Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 That is awesome for gamers like you, who live for PvP, and don't intend to, nor need to, engage in PvE to enjoy your mmo - but there are just as many who see it the same way, only in reverse (PvE>PvP). i enjoy both pvp and pve.. but the prob with pve in this game is that its so hard to find a group unlike WZ that u just need to Q.. and being in a server that barely reaches 100 on peak hours it takes alot of time waiting for a group to form. specially in youre planning on joining an ops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMaulUK Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I dont think 1.2 will save pvp. Bioware have set their stall out and its shabby. PvP in Rift was alot of fun with the brackets until you reached lvl 50 - the same mistake made by Bioware by having rankings(Rift)/Gear(SWTOR) to give higher lvl 50s a cutting edge, thus making it all but impossible to grab medals in pvp. PvP just feels like its been bolted on without a single thought of how the player base will react to each class having at least 1 stun, which means that in any given match you could be spending most of your time dying and waiting to join the battle. The ONLY way they can save this now, is by having another higher level brackets for players who collect at least 3 of an armour set so at least then, they stand some kind of chance. The recent Q&As dont throw up much hope either as its littered with 'yes, its coming soon' answers. Given the mistakes that some other MMOs have made in the past and watching how Blizzard shaped pvp arenas and other shame holes, Bioware havent learned a thing and just turned it into a farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winteria Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 I wonder why the devs dont ask us what we like and hate in pvp... like a vote. Its like they try something cause one of their noob programer had an idea.. "Lets try this and see if the community like it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaramukhti Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hopefully in GW2 ppl wont reach cap lvl of 80 in a week like many did in TOR... Well, you can hope - but don't underestimate the speed at which gamers can chew through content.lol There were people who went from 1-85 Cata in less than a week. I think GW2 looks great, but I am just a realist. I know that GW2 will eventually be in the same position that SWTOR is right now and, like SWTOR, I expect to see a fair amount of people screaming bloody murder at the ANet devs instead of allowing the devs time to catch up. That's not just human nature, that's gamer nature. The launch content of a game is never enough to satiate the masses for long. That is why developers have to be ready to put out new content very quickly. Also, bugs happen, and what's more, you can't always predict which ones will make it through until launch arrives. Nobody has the perfect blueprint. GW2 may launch with RvR, and find out some servers have horrible imbalances that will cause the fanbase to QQ, just like what happened with SWTOR. Dynamic events might bug out. Events might be designed to scale to the number of people present, but instead it doesn't and it is too hard, or too easy. All MMO's go through growing pains. GW2 will go through their own, and I hope people will give them time to grow (probably not, gamers are fickle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaramukhti Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Honestly I believe some here might be hired ranters. I really do think it's possible with all he shenanigans with online reviews as of late. My server pop is down a tad, but not bad and most of the children were kicked out of my guild (200) long ago. We have one of the better PvP guilds and highest PvE of the bunch. Overall people like the game, and are honest about the problems it has too. I've said my peace a few times to people who are just negative for want as for anything else. There are definitely those ranting with an agenda. That tag doesn't apply to everyone (some just genuinely didn't like their experience), but there are absolutely those who never gave it a chance. That said, I stand on almost the same opinion as you - I like the game, but it is far from perfect. SWTOR is in its growth phase. Unfortunately, not everyone is patient enough to let it grow. That's gamers for you, though; nobody ever said gamers were a patient bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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