I don't know what all the fuss is about

[TheStrika]

Look, leperjack. We get it, you think operatives are terrible and anyone that plays them is a fool.

 

The truth of the matter, is, if you play concealment the way it is intended, you can still wreak havoc in any wz. You aren't going to be running around in mid dueling it out with 2-3 people. You let your teammates do that, and strategically choose your target. If you truly think any class can lock down a target as well as us, you are kidding yourself.

[Ich_Bin]

After browsing through this thread and reading most of the discussion it seems that everyone agrees that Operatives/Scoundrels are the weakest class right now but that a very skilled player can still make them work (even though he would be doing a lot better with any other class).

Now some conclude that this class is "broken" and others like to have a disadvantage and work really hard to achieve decent results and refuse to say the class is broken.

Why are we even arguing about the definition of broken?

 

Scoundrels/Operatives are weaker than any other class in this game. Period.

Instead of nit-picking about some unimportant details can't we just all agree that our favourite class needs some serious work and try to convince Bioware to address the glaring problems that this class has?

[Kaijan]

After browsing through this thread and reading most of the discussion it seems that everyone agrees that Operatives/Scoundrels are the weakest class right now but that a very skilled player can still make them work (even though he would be doing a lot better with any other class).

Now some conclude that this class is "broken" and others like to have a disadvantage and work really hard to achieve decent results and refuse to say the class is broken.

Why are we even arguing about the definition of broken?

 

Scoundrels/Operatives are weaker than any other class in this game. Period.

Instead of nit-picking about some unimportant details can't we just all agree that our favourite class needs some serious work and try to convince Bioware to address the glaring problems that this class has?

 

But see, that would be logical, and this is the Internet. Can't very well introduce logic to the Internet; it might explode!

[Zumaeta]

Burst DPS with no Utility is just a worthless pub stomp class not to be used in any competitive environment. Plain and Simple.

[Natharon]

seems to be a bug my friend

 

There are tons of tricks though that people are starting to figure out though.

 

 

Some examples:

 

using cover when healing yourself for defensive bonuses

 

using cover to roll to areas to catch up to people

 

using cover to not get charged

 

using flashbang, cover/charge him, cast orbital strike, cloaking screen, hidden strike as he gets pounded by orbital strike...etc

 

I think with time more things will be uncovered by good players.

 

 

I still dont feel we are useless, I hope others start to feel it too. I hate the QQ brochacho (not pointing at you in anyway, just the state of the forums in general)

 

I wasn't aware scoundrels/operatives had hunker down. And I think most would agree, straight up moving is infinitely smarter than moving into cover when you are healing. LOS, heal up, possibly break combat and try again, most of the defense bonuses gained from cover are gained from talents for cover. Mobility > than stationary.

 

Your grasp of "tricks" either speaks wonders of your team, or makes me question your competition.

 

For instance, one, might as well let them run away, you will catch up eventually if you plan on it, by then they will have broken combat and thus given you a free use of the opener as they OCH, two, you probably haven't caught on, but dodge/evasion clears all dots.

 

Besides the argument wasn't about this class being completely garbage, it is in pve, but in pvp it can still hold its own, the argument is other classes are able to do the same or more with less. You have basically an assassins dps now, with absolutely none of its utility.

[Chasidim]

Providing offheals and being stealthed?

 

Nevermind the fact that you cannot do both at the same time, the main question is why the @#$% would you want to?

 

"Look, I can do one job worse than an assassin as I do not have the mobility needed to be a more effective stealth capper, nor do I have the staying power or damage to counteract an assault should my cap be noticed by another player, and when I'm not out all by myself, I can heal less effectively than any other healing spec."

 

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Sounds awesome.

 

I think you meant blinders. Also, congratulations on assuming I'm a "bad player."

 

Just because I choose not to focus on PvP doesn't mean I'm bad at it.

 

It was super-convenient of you to invalidate your post in the first bullet point. Thanks.

 

Player skill can be a larger contributor to success and failure than class abilities, but a level 50 sorcerer who is semi-afk is not going to lose to a level 40 assassin whose been PvPing since the cradle in open world PvP. It simply cannot happen due to the mathematics of the game.

 

And I'm all for player skill becoming the final, deciding factor in PvP decision. I really don't give a flying rat's tuckus about warzones, but if you win in one, then you should be able to say with confidence that it was because you were a skilled player part of a skilled team that was more skilled than the players on the other team.

 

That's not a possibility when the immediate counter is "we would have done better if Joe wasn't so hung up on playing a ****** operative."

 

I'm all for introducing some form of system mastery to games. However, that works best when the mechanics are divorced from the aesthetics, or there is an alternative provided. Additionally, what reward are you getting for your mastery of the operative?

 

"I'm REALLY SKILLED!!! Look at me still underperform drooling uncoordinated idiots playing other classes."

 

I agree. An increase in difficulty of utilization can be very rewarding. However, the reward should not be "subpar performance less subpar than usual."

 

"great" is a relative term. Is a player controlled operative better than... a companion? Usually so. better than any other class used to fill that same role controlled by a player of equal skill? No.

 

I'm sorry you fail at reading comprehension, and make broad assumptions about people who you do not know?

 

Got one. Frankly, it's kinda boring. I by far prefer my Marauder and would be thrilled to see the operative gain that kind of performance, even if it came with similar kludgy and unintuitive interaction.

 

Yeah... Do you honestly think this is how it will work?

 

Scenario 1: Bioware never bothers to correct what they've screwed up on the operative, or failed to design into it in the first place.

 

"UH-OH! Here comes Rye! He's the most BA operative around! He's so good that I'd almost want to have him on the team."

"Almost?"

"Yeah, almost. Jack's here on his Sorcerer and even though he's totally fail because some guy on the internet who doesn't know him said so, a fail player on a sorcerer is still better than a ****** operative."

 

Scenario 2: Bioware finally gets around to fixing the class.

"UH-OH! Here comes Rye! He's been playing an Operative for a really long time!"

"yeah. Well we've got like 8 other great operative players already because everyone rolled one after the fix and they're the new FotM. Let's invite Jack because even though he's totally fail because some guy on the internet who doesn't know him said so, we really do need a bit more range from a sorcerer and they're still easy enough to play that he can perform as well as most of the Operatives here."

 

this guy is awesome! seriously. i think i love you!

[sMooMs]

I told you guys that I would comment upon testing everything once I hit level 50....so that's exactly what I did.

 

 

I hit 50 on thursday of last week and immediately started the grind. Got 2 pieces Columni pve bonus (15% backstab crit chance)...Gloves/Boots and the rest cent/champ.

 

 

I'm at work so I can't remember exactly but I think my gear is as follows:

Cent ear

cent implant x2

champ bracers

champ relics

cent main hand

cent offhand

cent helm

columni gloves

cent belt

columni boots

 

I have about 14890 hp which I know is not much, but I've only been 50 a few days. Now here is what I have noticed. (I play concealment)

 

When I was 49 I was unstoppable, literally unstoppable, breaking 300k dmg before even having the gear to do it....the class seemed rediculous, however I knew this was only temporary since the forums pretty much anticipated my doom for me upon hitting 50.

 

I hit 50 and went into a WZ and like expected hit like a wet noodle and pretty much hid the whole time, (I actually called my buddy and was like oh man, these players are so bad but I literally can't do anything cause gear seems to be so important). So we grinded a little bit and here is the verdict.

 

I play CWILD on Dark Malak Imperial Side (EST), with the little bit of gear that I have I do more dmg then battlemasters, I don't feel completely useless like you all claim, and I've gotten immortal with 10+badges 5 times. My gear is still trash, this class is powerful..it really is guys. It might not be SORC GOD MODE but if you ever played that class, you would know that a one armed baby could make it successful...

 

I do agree we need a gap closer or some kind of knockback. I am not here to brag or boast about how "leet" I am, I am simply giving my observations so people arent so freakin afraid to hit 50 on this class because of the outcry this forums provides.

 

 

Sorry for the wall of text

 

are u running with a premade? pocket healer ? or are u getting these results pugging?

if u r making 10 medals+300kdamage pugging GREAT, if ure doing it with a premade, tank/healer/guard then it really isnt anything to special imo , it really isnt hard to flatten newb pugs when u roll with a premade.

if the ladder be the case then here is a challenge, spend the entire day pugging come back here and post ure results, if u already did the aforementioned then disregard

Edited February 23, 2012 by sMooMs

[Ich_Bin]

Rethorical question: Since when does amount of damage/amount of medals translate into being a valuable asset to a team?

 

Take Huttball as an example. The most effective players who help scoring the most points usually end up with 4 digit damage and 4 digit healing numbers. And next to no medals. Yet they have contributed by far the most to their team's success.

Fun fact: Those players are Inquisitors/Consulars 100% of the time.

 

Compare that to Scoundrels/Operatives: High damage numbers, many medals, lots of mvp votes and next to NO contribution to their team's success.

BUT those players are posting screenshots on these forums showing their high damage numbers and telling everyone "WE ARE FINE YOU JUST NEED TO L2P".

Edited February 23, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[sMooMs]

Rethorical question: Since when does amount of damage/amount of medals translate into being a valuable asset to a team?

 

Take Huttball as an example. The most effective players who help scoring the most points usually end up with 4 digit damage and 4 digit healing numbers. And next to no medals. Yet they have contributed by far the most to their team's success.

Fun fact: Those players are Inquisitors/Consulars 100% of the time.

 

Compare that to Scoundrels/Operatives: High damage numbers, many medals, lots of mvp votes and next to NO contribution to their team's success.

BUT those players are posting screenshots on these forums showing their high damage numbers and telling everyone "WE ARE FINE YOU JUST NEED TO L2P".

 

oops..8am still havent slept and completley misread that.

Edited February 23, 2012 by sMooMs

[Cwild]

are u running with a premade? pocket healer ? or are u getting these results pugging?

if u r making 10 medals+300kdamage pugging GREAT, if ure doing it with a premade, tank/healer/guard then it really isnt anything to special imo , it really isnt hard to flatten newb pugs when u roll with a premade.

if the ladder be the case then here is a challenge, spend the entire day pugging come back here and post ure results, if u already did the aforementioned then disregard

 

I do both and get simliar results on anything I do. Maybe it is just my server, but most people know me and since huttball is the only thing we ever get to play, they know how I approach it. They always know if we touch the ball first I will be in the endzone stealth and they can go into the pit and just throw it up to me when everyone on the opposing team jumps down after him. It's the same for my premade. Hey, maybe I'm just not on a great server with an abundance of mediocre players, that I do not know however, the results are pretty much the same whether im solo queuing or in my premade.

 

I'm not here to argue with anyone on this forum, I'm really over that, I respect everyones opinion and even if I might disagree, it isn't to say that they don't make valid points.

 

The class does need work, I just happen to really enjoy it. I hope that we get what we are looking for to make it as fun for everyone as I am having right now.

 

I did upgrade some of my gear though since my original post and I am having better results in terms of bursting with my pve set with pvp off pieces. The survivability seems similar, the only thing that seems to be affected are my offheals which is fine. I have more endurance and cunning which seems to be doing pretty well. I also got my champ offhand and weapon last night due to lucky bag drops which helped a good bit as well.

 

The one thing I really would like to see if not a gap closer, is an ability that lets us be immune to knockbacks or roots for lets say 5-6 seconds. It wouldn't be OP as it would still be up to the user to predict when they would be trying to knock us back, maybe make things a little more fun.

 

Thanks for all the constructive critisism in this post, like I said before I was just stating my opinion which as we all know everyone has their own.