just want to know who does most dps (pve)

[gunte]

For starters, I apologize. My frustration was not directed at you, but I vented at you. There have been some very snide remarks in this post, from people who CLEARLY are biased (and failed to provide a SHRED of constructive evidence to support their claim). I have played both specs, Combat more than Watchman I admit, and I truly believe they are neck and neck. I don't know which is superior over a long duration (5+ minutes) in their current form, but I know for a fact when/if Combat is fixed and tweaked, it will be on par or ahead of Watchman.

 

On a side note, I was very tired when I posted my original 'parse' and made obvious mistakes. On another note, the way I was attacked was a prime example of what you stated. You CAN'T have a civil, adult discussion on this topic. People want to believe the spec they've chosen is best, and will (in some cases) blindly defend it with hearsay, guesses and in some cases downright misinformation. I'm usually above it all, but my defenses were down from lack of sleep.

 

You are missing the point. The point is that your original post was completely pointless (ah the irony) since no fight worth fighting goes on for 20 seconds, The thread was not "who can dish out the most damage in the first 20 seconds of a fight". Not to mention that your "rotations" (in lack of better words) were quite bad and numbers inaccurate (if properly geared) most likely due to poorly chosen gear.

 

You still obviously dont know how to play watchman correctly so stop saying you have played them both (obvious since you are putting OS that bloody far down on your priority list, oh and look zealous is down there as well.. also obvious since you keep guessing and saying things like: "i bet i was pretty close" and so on)

 

Finally i just find it funny how you complain that other people want to believe that their spec is best and use misinformation bla bla when thats exactly what YOU are doing??

After so many people have pointed out how incorrect your "calculations" are, you keep on going without accepting your shortcomings.

 

Im just glad i know that im helping out my guild to the best of my ability both when it comes to DPS and making it easier for healers due to survivability. In the end everyone has to go with the spec they like the most, but sadly they are not equal at this point.

Edited February 22, 2012 by gunte

[Roarrk]

For all of you people who keep saying watchman is better i COMPLETELY disagree. I've been playing combat since i made my sentinel and i have yet to see a watchman sentinel who can pull numbers even CLOSE to what i can, whether it be pvp or pve. I can consistently pull 300-400k damage in a warzone with no healer and 10+ deaths while wtachman sentinels (with a pocket healer) usually only do 150-200k. In fact i think ive only seen a watchman sentinel do over 200k 2 or 3 times. In pve ive also been able to hold aggro on a boss with 300k+ gear over a watchman sentinel while i was still in level 40 pvp gear barely upgraded and he was in full columi/rakata. Maybe ive just never seen a watchman sentinel who doesnt completely SUCK or maybe people just arent playing combat right.

 

EDIT: I'd also like to add that the pvp damage is with me only having 3 or 4 pieces of centurion/champion and the watchman full champion/battlemaster. Also Combat Sentinel ataru strikes dont even work properly on many boss fights and i still do more damage then watchman.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Roarrk

[Hizoka]

For all of you people who keep saying watchman is better i COMPLETELY disagree. I've been playing combat since i made my sentinel and i have yet to see a watchman sentinel who can pull numbers even CLOSE to what i can, whether it be pvp or pve. I can consistently pull 300-400k damage in a warzone with no healer and 10+ deaths while wtachman sentinels (with a pocket healer) usually only do 150-200k. In fact i think ive only seen a watchman sentinel do over 200k 2 or 3 times. In pve ive also been able to hold aggro on a boss with 300k+ gear over a watchman sentinel while i was still in level 40 pvp gear barely upgraded and he was in full columi/rakata. Maybe ive just never seen a watchman sentinel who doesnt completely SUCK or maybe people just arent playing combat right.

 

the reason why Watchmen sometimes seem to do less in warzones is they KILL THEIR TARGET!!!!

 

 

if you get on someone and kill them then you do less number then if you beat on them for 5 minutes getting no-where.

 

 

And sorry but by ythe match combat just cannot produce the damage watchmen can. Argue all you want a good watchmen will ALWAYS out DPS a good combat sent, however a bad watchemn can be out DPSed by anything just like any other bad person playing anything.

[Roarrk]

the reason why Watchmen sometimes seem to do less in warzones is they KILL THEIR TARGET!!!!

 

 

if you get on someone and kill them then you do less number then if you beat on them for 5 minutes getting no-where.

 

 

And sorry but by ythe match combat just cannot produce the damage watchmen can. Argue all you want a good watchmen will ALWAYS out DPS a good combat sent, however a bad watchemn can be out DPSed by anything just like any other bad person playing anything.

 

Your your saying i never kill my targets? lol your funny. then why do i usually have 60+ kills and 30+ killing blows? Why if i sit back and watch a watchman sentinel does he take forever to kill the enemy and he eventually dies? Oh and please help me to understand how my 4k+ blade storms and my repeated 2k+ blade rushes on top of all my other attacks which hit for well over 1k arent going to kill a target. Half the time (and this is a sad fact to admit) the only reason something DOES die with the people i get queued with is because im attacking it.

 

EDIT: Oh and another reason your "they kill their targets" remark is invalid. Operatives. snipers, commandoes, snipers, gunslingers, mercenaries, etc kill their targets dont they? Ive seen each of those advanced classes pull well over 500k-600k in pvp and have 80-100kills. Pretty sure theyre killing their targets.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Roarrk

[Hizoka]

Your your saying i never kill my targets? lol your funny. then why do i usually have 60+ kills and 30+ killing blows? Why if i sit back and watch a watchman sentinel does he take forever to kill the enemy and he eventually dies? Oh and please help me to understand how my 4k+ blade storms and my repeated 2k+ blade rushes on top of all my other attacks which hit for well over 1k arent going to kill a target. Half the time (and this is a sad fact to admit) the only reason something DOES die with the people i get queued with is because im attacking it.

 

you realize that you have nothing that hits as hard as merciless strike, and that my dot TICKS hit harder then your blade rush.

 

 

Combat is inferior to watchmen in every way, but you have to be a good player to see that, which you pretty much aren't.

[Roarrk]

you realize that you have nothing that hits as hard as merciless strike, and that my dot TICKS hit harder then your blade rush.

 

 

Combat is inferior to watchmen in every way, but you have to be a good player to see that, which you pretty much aren't.

 

If i have nothing that hits as hard as merciless slash then why is my max hit always higher then a watchman sentinels?

[Slyvannus]

I've played around with watchman and combat, both are fun. When played correctly, watchman is better. I spent about 4 hours convincing myself of this. I used that champ mob in Ilum that is soloable, and timed myself at taking it down. Quite consistently I found watchman to take it down quicker. I was the first sent on my server and I lvled using combat, but found that once going into watchman things changed. Zen is more powerful in Combat, but its not bad for watchman either. I am usually top dmg in wzs, just because I can run around and mess ppl up.

I have tested, Watchman is better for raids, anyone who disagrees is simply misunderstood. I'm in full Rakata and have been doing these for a long time: If your going to raid, go watchman.

[Hizoka]

If i have nothing that hits as hard as merciless slash then why is my max hit always higher then a watchman sentinels?

 

because you are making things up. plain and simple.

[Roarrk]

I've played around with watchman and combat, both are fun. When played correctly, watchman is better. I spent about 4 hours convincing myself of this. I used that champ mob in Ilum that is soloable, and timed myself at taking it down. Quite consistently I found watchman to take it down quicker. I was the first sent on my server and I lvled using combat, but found that once going into watchman things changed. Zen is more powerful in Combat, but its not bad for watchman either. I am usually top dmg in wzs, just because I can run around and mess ppl up.

I have tested, Watchman is better for raids, anyone who disagrees is simply misunderstood. I'm in full Rakata and have been doing these for a long time: If your going to raid, go watchman.

 

I agree that watchman THEORETICALLY is better for pve content and raiding. The fact of the matter is though, i have yet to see a watchman sentinel do as good as i can in combat and my gear is still pretty bad. If i were to see an actually good watchman sentinel then i may change my mind but until then im sticking with combat.

[Roarrk]

because you are making things up. plain and simple.

 

If your going off of tooltips to get these crazy ideas in your head actually play the spec before you judge. None of my attacks hit for what the tooltip says in fact they usually hit for 2-3x more. tooltips say blade storm hits for 1500-1600 damage. Mine easily hits for 4k+

Edited February 22, 2012 by Roarrk

[Hizoka]

If your going off of tooltips to get these crazy ideas in your head actually play the spec before you judge. None of my attacks hit for what the tooltip says in fact they usually hit for 2-3x more.

 

i love guys like you, you play the game for a few weeks and you think you have more experiance them people that you in beta for better part of a year. Combat cannot hit as hard with a single attack as Watchmen. But keep think that. maybe one day you might actually learn that you are wrong and become a better player.

[Roarrk]

i love guys like you, you play the game for a few weeks and you think you have more experiance them people that you in beta for better part of a year. Combat cannot hit as hard with a single attack as Watchmen. But keep think that. maybe one day you might actually learn that you are wrong and become a better player.

 

Your right, i havent been playing for a year because i didnt have beta access. Ive only been playing since December 15th when early access started. This is far from my first mmo though. Ive played mmos for many many years and ive learned how to maximize the abilities of classes that i play. If you dont believe me when i say that i can do a LOT better then a watchman sentinel thats fine with me but its still true.

[Roarrk]

Your right, i havent been playing for a year because i didnt have beta access. Ive only been playing since December 15th when early access started. This is far from my first mmo though. Ive played mmos for many many years and ive learned how to maximize the abilities of classes that i play. If you dont believe me when i say that i can do a LOT better then a watchman sentinel thats fine with me but its still true.

 

Oh and for the record experience doesnt necessarily make a player good. I've known people in other mmos who played that mmo for years and still couldnt figure out the basic mechanics of their class. hm.. sounds kinda like you doesnt it Hizoka?

Edited February 22, 2012 by Roarrk

[Hizoka]

Your right, i havent been playing for a year because i didnt have beta access. Ive only been playing since December 15th when early access started. This is far from my first mmo though. Ive played mmos for many many years and ive learned how to maximize the abilities of classes that i play. If you dont believe me when i say that i can do a LOT better then a watchman sentinel thats fine with me but its still true.

 

see you prove how fail you are. The game is bound by math and nothing can change that, COmbat simply cannot produce what watchmen can, you can try to deny that all you want but it is FACT watchmen produces far better DPS then combat

[Psybin]

As much as I'd love combat to be on par with watchman, I have found that is not. By a noticeable margin. If it was a case of I cant really notice much difference without a damage meter I would play combat. But I do notice a significant difference. Things just die faster when I play watchman.

I try combat every week when my talent reset cost resets. For me playing watchman makes me feel like a marauder, not a sentinel. But I wont gimp myself for RP reasons, and that's what playing combat is at the moment.

[Roarrk]

see you prove how fail you are. The game is bound by math and nothing can change that, COmbat simply cannot produce what watchmen can, you can try to deny that all you want but it is FACT watchmen produces far better DPS then combat

 

Im through argueing with you. I consistently pull better numbers than any watchman sentinel ive seen. Whether or not anybody chooses to believe that is up to them but its still true no matter what idiots like you say.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Roarrk

[EasymodeX]

*edit* Of course these numbers aren't perfect, the rotation might also not be perfect, but like I said, it's all close enough to give you a picture of damage output over a 20 second window. All these numbers were tested on level 50 strong mobs on Ilum, for consistency.

 

1. You did not account for focus procs from the bleeds. This should amount to ~6 focus during that timeframe.

 

2. You did not account for any Cauterize resets. You should have at least 1 additional Cauterize in that timeframe.

 

These two changes replace 3 Strikes with 1 Caut and 2 Slashes.

 

3. Your Precision Slash has a 10s cooldown. Lulz.

 

4. Your Combat sequence requires Zen. How often is that up for Combat?

 

 

Sure, a fully-prepped 4.5 seconds of Precision-buffed, Zen-buffed Blade Rush spam with a lucky crit streak is the highest potential burst available (5500 per second), but how often does it happen?

 

Edit:

 

Overall Combat is sufficiently competitive from a PvE DPS standpoint, even if the DPS output is far too fragile in PvP. The only real "PROBLEM" with the spec is its high reliance on critical hits (every piece of core damage is tuned for the +30% crit damage modifier).

 

That said, Combat sucks dick for PvE utility, and ... has the Ataru proc bug on large hitboxes been fixed yet? Roflolol.

Edited February 22, 2012 by EasymodeX

[Bishidoblade]

For all of you people who keep saying watchman is better i COMPLETELY disagree. I've been playing combat since i made my sentinel and i have yet to see a watchman sentinel who can pull numbers even CLOSE to what i can, whether it be pvp or pve. I can consistently pull 300-400k damage in a warzone with no healer and 10+ deaths while wtachman sentinels (with a pocket healer) usually only do 150-200k. In fact i think ive only seen a watchman sentinel do over 200k 2 or 3 times. In pve ive also been able to hold aggro on a boss with 300k+ gear over a watchman sentinel while i was still in level 40 pvp gear barely upgraded and he was in full columi/rakata. Maybe ive just never seen a watchman sentinel who doesnt completely SUCK or maybe people just arent playing combat right.

 

EDIT: I'd also like to add that the pvp damage is with me only having 3 or 4 pieces of centurion/champion and the watchman full champion/battlemaster. Also Combat Sentinel ataru strikes dont even work properly on many boss fights and i still do more damage then watchman.

 

 

If your telling me that you pull 300-400k damage (which isn't anything special, in fact when i don't pull at least that I die a little inside) and are not being beaten by Watchmen on your server then they are all terrible. I honestly don't trust what your saying at all either way because its obvious by your response your clueless about the topic at hand.

 

Please enlighten us... how exactly do you know your doing more damage in PVE out of curiosity? I know... i know.. your a beast, gods gift to jedi everywhere - 300k...(lawl) in pvp but aside from that.

[Apocalypse-]

If i have nothing that hits as hard as merciless slash then why is my max hit always higher then a watchman sentinels?

 

Psst. Merciless slash's main hand hit hits within ~400 of Blade Storm's hit. There's just that part where the offhand hit following it hits for 800-1900. The range non-crit merciless does 3200-3500 damage. The high end on Merciless is 5500-6500. It's just split into two simultaneous attacks so the 5k medal is hard to get for us, when in reality we trample over it 2-3x a minute.

[VxMenionxV]

Damn. People are So Brutal on these Forums. People seem to Lash out on these forums whenever anyone makes a claim that their preference of play isn't the best way to play their class.

 

Can we be a little bit less Hostile People? The OP is snapping at people because many of these responses have been viscious. Chillax (Yes.. i said Chillax. That. just. happened.)

 

That said, I played Combat to Level 50, then Switched to Watchmen as a Fresh 50 because my Combat wasn't breaking 80,000 K a match against Champion Imps. My Very next Warzone i did 20,000 More Damage and had more kills. Thats without even having the rotation completely down. (I Personally Think Combat is a little bit easier to do) Its now been 3 weeks and i've never looked back.

 

One thing i'd say from your Rotation comparisions.. is that you attemtped to "Parse" the damage from both rotations and combine them side by side.. You assume both have a Zen Proc Available so that the Combat Sent can Dump all of his Focus with his Blade Rush.

 

One important point to note, is that a Watchmen Sentinel (From my experience) Has his Zen Proc Ready to roll about Twice as Often as a Combat Sent. (The Valor Talent lets us Generate an Extra Point of Centering for Every Focus spending Attack! Say What!!)

 

This essentially means a Good Watchmen Could see his ideal Damage Rotation used twice as often as a Combat Sent can. This makes a big difference when calculating long Term Damage numbers for both Builds.