just want to know who does most dps (pve)

[Hizoka]

wow im sorry but this was just plain stupid.. im not interested in a flamewar with anyone but this was just.. well laughable im afraid. Im not even going to begin to ask where you got that Watchman rotation from, why on earth your not using master strike in Watchman,

why you are ignoring juyo form or where your damage numbers comes from. All i know is my dots alone does about 1600 DPS. (in the practical world)

 

the dot is not quite 1600 DPS but its close to 1k... My OS dot crits for 1580 non crit is about 775, that ticks every 1.5. Cauterize is 375 non crit and 850 crit that once every second with about 70-90% uptime

 

 

Master strike is use often as watchmen because you have dots rolling and hits fliping hard, hard enough that it equals or beat any 2 other attacks you could use in that time frame and it costs NOTHING. That clown also forgot about the Merciless buff making Merciless slash have a 7.5 second cooldown.

 

 

Sorry but no-one that actually understands how watchmen works would ever spec combat until they fix its issues. Combat is fun to play for many people, but no matter how fun it is it can never hope to compete with watchmen DPS until its flaws are fixed.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Hizoka

[Mal-Sharran]

the dot is not quite 1600 DPS but its close to 1k... My OS dot crits for 1580 non crit is about 775, that ticks every 1.5. Cauterize is 375 non crit and 850 crit that once every second with about 70-90% uptime

 

 

Master strike is use often as watchmen because you have dots rolling and hits fliping hard, hard enough that it equals or beat any 2 other attacks you could use in that time frame and it costs NOTHING. That clown also forgot about the Merciless buff making Merciless slash have a 7.5 second cooldown.

 

 

Sorry but no-one that actually understands how watchmen works would ever spec combat until they fix its issues. Combat is fun to play for many people, but no matter how fun it is it can never hope to compete with watchmen DPS until its flaws are fixed.

 

And then you get knocked back from the boss, and your Leap is on cd because you used it 5 seconds earlier for focus (so now the only dps you're doing is dot damage, if they're up). And the only mechanic problems with Combat right now revolve around Master Strike and Blade Rush animations, stutter and misfires. If you use MS as Watchman, you suffer the same fate as Combat. And even with BR stutter, the damage generally goes out even if you can't see the attack. Annoying, but it still works.

 

Even then, using MY numbers, how do you honestly bring an aditional 7k or so damage to that 20 second 'parse scenario' as Watchman? Besides Master Strike, which would add 3 seconds in there somewhere, replacing something I listed. It would only add perhaps 3k damage. That still brings Watchman on par with Combat, not ahead.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Mal-Sharran

[Ainianu]

having good burst for a 4 second window out of 15 doesn't make up for the lesser damage you out outside of it

 

 

I am sure you know watchman very well, but if you make a statement like this it only shows you have not played Combat (or when you did, you never managed to figure it out) and thus you cannot compare them objectively unless you experiment and TRY combat for yourself, if you are unwilling to do so and just want to stick with Watchman because you enjoy it... no problem at all, but you should not be debating in comparing the two without knowing them both.

[gunte]

Of course I'm in Juyo? Duh.

3 stack of OS with Zen crits for about 1300, 3 times.

Cauterize crits for about 450, 6 times.

That comes out to 6600 damage over 6 seconds. 6600 divided by 6 seconds is 1100 dps.

Dunno what uber gear you're running in for your dots to be so OP.

I also said I've only been Watchman 2 weeks now, and primarily PvP. Master Strike is worthless in PvP without the Combat or Focus talents to improve it. No, these numbers were not meant to represent PvP, but this has been my experience.

 

Even taking into account the ability to use Cauterize every 6 seconds (which is impossible, sometimes you simply will not get the CD refreshed) it's virtually impossible to keep OS up 100% as well. Blade Storm costs as much as Merciless and does half the damage without Combat talents. And virtually every other ability you use as Watchman is melee. Meaning you stack OS very quickly.

 

Please, enlighten me. You've said nothing useful whatsoever, either you or the person above you. And I love how you read my edit at the bottom, that stated these rotations might be off. Great reading comprehension.

 

They crit for more than that but ok fine lets say its 1100 DPS.. FROM THE DOTS ONLY. Add the DPS from normal attacks as well on top of that...

this thread was for PvE so i have no idea why you decided to use a Combat PvE rotation and a (failed completely flawed) Watchman PvP rotation. If you are not used to Watchman and dont know how to play it, why on earth did you decide to make a long post here telling everyone Combat is better? I dont feel i have to say much more, work on your Watchman skills and you will understand.

 

also i still love how your precision slash has a 10 sec CD, mine never had :'(

[Mal-Sharran]

They crit for more than that but ok fine lets say its 1100 DPS.. FROM THE DOTS ONLY. Add the DPS from normal attacks as well on top of that...

this thread was for PvE so i have no idea why you decided to use a Combat PvE rotation and a (failed completely flawed) Watchman PvP rotation. If you are not used to Watchman and dont know how to play it, why on earth did you decide to make a long post here telling everyone Combat is better? I dont feel i have to say much more, work on your Watchman skills and you will understand.

 

also i still love how your precision slash has a 10 sec CD, mine never had :'(

 

I love how you keep harping on an obvious oversight on my part. I love how even if I corrected it, the Combat numbers are still superior. And the rotation I listed was not intended for PvP, it was my standard rotation for anything Strong or above. Also, you are obviously not used to Combat, to say Watchmen so far outclasses it that they aren't even in the same league. I also love how you claim dots tick harder than what I stated, even though I was very clear these were MY numbers, with MY gear, and I even listed my stats. You saying I can't read a number as it jumps up on my screen?

 

And by all means, tell me how your Watchman rotation differs, I'm all ears.

 

*edit* This is my best guess.

Leap

OS

Zealous

Cauterize (before Merc so hopefully Merc refreshes Cauterize cd)

Merciless

Master Strike

Strike

Cauterize if it cooled down, another strike if not?

Leap

Not a slash here, you wouldn't have enough focus for OS unless you were really lucky with burns giving you focus)

 

And it goes on from there...

Edited February 21, 2012 by Mal-Sharran

[Hizoka]

And then you get knocked back from the boss, and your Leap is on cd because you used it 5 seconds earlier for focus (so now the only dps you're doing is dot damage, if they're up). And the only mechanic problems with Combat right now revolve around Master Strike and Blade Rush animations, stutter and misfires. If you use MS as Watchman, you suffer the same fate as Combat. And even with BR stutter, the damage generally goes out even if you can't see the attack. Annoying, but it still works.

 

Even then, using MY numbers, how do you honestly bring an aditional 7k or so damage to that 20 second 'parse scenario' as Watchman? Besides Master Strike, which would add 3 seconds in there somewhere, replacing something I listed. It would only add perhaps 3k damage. That still brings Watchman on par with Combat, not ahead.

 

you still do not have any grasp of watchmen... Watchmens damage grows its not static like combat, with merciless strike lowering its cooldown and dots flowing it doesn't hit its full stride until about 40 seconds into a fight. Not to mention you do not need force leap to maintain the damage of watchmen its there for altering it to get more damage when you want it. and i have fought EVERY operation boss, at no point does getting knocked back matter because you know when its coming. the only "random" one is the "bodyguards" in KP and you are moved less then 3 meters from Sorno (if you are interrupting him) so it really doesn't hurt you.

 

The only thing you proved is you have 0 idea how to play watchmen and how it works. You said "rotations may be off" try not even close. If you are going to try and make a comparison like this at least know what you are doing otherwise you just make yourself look very very bad. You say your dots crit for 1300 that very low, you are nearly 20% behind me and that is a massive difference.

 

Not to mention no matter how you slice it Combat is midigated for the majority of its damage. Precision Slash is 6 seconds, but you have a 1.5 second GCD that gives you have 4.5 second window for unmidigated damage which is 3 attacks with 0 latency (without doing zen blade rush) seeing how it is impossible to have 0 latency you get 2 attacks possible in that window, you can get at most 4 blade rushes off during zen.

 

No matter what nearly every attack you hit is midigated by armor, in reality you get 2 attacks every 15 seconds that are unmidigated, you get 10 attacks every 15 seconds total(with 0 latency).

 

on a boss fight you do NOTHING but hinder your guild by raiding as combat. No matter how many tests you do with an ok combat run, and a terrible watchmen run will change the fact that as the game sits right now, combat is not close to watchmens damage when you have a SKILLED and geared player playing it.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Hizoka

[Mal-Sharran]

you still do not have any grasp of watchmen... Watchmens damage grows its not static like combat, with merciless strike lowering its cooldown and dots flowing it doesn't hit its full stride until about 40 seconds into a fight. Not to mention you do not need force leap to maintain the damage of watchmen its there for altering it to get more damage when you want it. and i have fought EVERY operation boss, at no point does getting knocked back matter because you know when its coming. the only "random" one is the "bodyguards" in KP and you are moved less then 3 meters from Sorno (if you are interrupting him) so it really doesn't hurt you.

 

The only thing you proved is you have 0 idea how to play watchmen and how it works. You said "rotations may be off" try not even close. If you are going to try and make a comparison like this at least know what you are doing otherwise you just make yourself look very very bad. You say your dots crit for 1300 that very low, you are nearly 20% behind me and that is a massive difference.

 

Not to mention no matter how you slice it Combat is midigated for the majority of its damage. Precision Slash is 6 seconds, but you have a 1.5 second GCD that gives you have 4.5 second window for unmidigated damage which is 3 attacks with 0 latency (without doing zen blade rush) seeing how it is impossible to have 0 latency you get 2 attacks possible in that window, you can get at most 4 blade rushes off during zen.

 

No matter what nearly every attack you hit is midigated by armor, in reality you get 2 attacks every 15 seconds that are unmidigated, you get 10 attacks every 15 seconds (with 0 latency)

 

on a boss fight you do NOTHING but hinder your guild by raiding as combat. No matter how many tests you do with an ok combat run, and a terrible watchmen run will change the fact that as the game sits right now, combat is not close to watchmens damage when you have a SKILLED and geared player playing it.

 

And yet it all still comes down to theorycrafting, and bad theorycrafting at that. Without a damage meter, you really don't know anything. You can't compare two specs easily even WITH a damage meter. With no empirical evidence to compare side by side, from two Sentinels in identical gear (optimized for each respective spec of course) all you're doing is guessing. Maybe it's an educated guess. But it's still a guess.

 

So keep pushing your opinion on this forum, I'll keep pushing mine. And thanks for absolutely no constructive input whatsoever. My dots are 20% behind yours? Obviously, I'm only 5 pieces of Rakata and 2 Columi.

 

Combat is mostly mitigated damage? SO IS WATCHMAN. Only your dots avoid armor, everything else you do is fully mitigated. So OS on a 12 second cd gives you some unmitigated damage. Precision Slash on a 15 second cd gives me some unmitigated damage too. So that's a stalemate. My fully mitigated attacks (BR, BS) hit harder than your Slash and nearly on par with your Merciless, and my guaranteed crit basically cancels out any benefit you get for hitting harder with Merciless.

 

Merciless Slash, 7.5 sec cd, crit for 3300, hits for what? 2k?

Blade Storm, 9 sec cd, crits for 3k. Every time. It balances out, because you won't crit with Merciless every time.

Combined dots do 6600 (for me, in my gear) over 6 seconds.

Master Strike with Precision up does over 7k in 3 seconds. Stalemate.

 

I can keep going. Watchman is not the end all, be all spec you want it to be. It IS superior for raiding. It is not the only option though.

 

*edit*

And unless you're willing to post YOUR rotation, your words carry no weight, really. I at least attempted to create a scenario for people to follow. If my Watchman rotation is so horribly, terribly wrong, I'd really like to know what you do differently. Wanna know what I think? I think I was pretty damn close, and you know it, so you don't want to look bad.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Mal-Sharran

[Hizoka]

And yet it all still comes down to theorycrafting, and bad theorycrafting at that. Without a damage meter, you really don't know anything. You can't compare two specs easily even WITH a damage meter. With no empirical evidence to compare side by side, from two Sentinels in identical gear (optimized for each respective spec of course) all you're doing is guessing. Maybe it's an educated guess. But it's still a guess.

 

So keep pushing your opinion on this forum, I'll keep pushing mine. And thanks for absolutely no constructive input whatsoever. My dots are 20% behind yours? Obviously, I'm only 5 pieces of Rakata and 2 Columi.

 

Combat is mostly mitigated damage? SO IS WATCHMAN. Only your dots avoid armor, everything else you do is fully mitigated. So OS on a 12 second cd gives you some unmitigated damage. Precision Slash on a 15 second cd gives me some unmitigated damage too. So that's a stalemate. My fully mitigated attacks (BR, BS) hit harder than your Slash and nearly on par with your Merciless, and my guaranteed crit basically cancels out any benefit you get for hitting harder with Merciless.

 

Merciless Slash, 7.5 sec cd, crit for 3300, hits for what? 2k?

Blade Storm, 9 sec cd, crits for 3k. Every time. It balances out, because you won't crit with Merciless every time.

Combined dots do 6600 (for me, in my gear) over 6 seconds.

Master Strike with Precision up does over 7k in 3 seconds. Stalemate.

 

I can keep going. Watchman is not the end all, be all spec you want it to be. It IS superior for raiding. It is not the only option though.

if you really have that much rakata and that little dot damage you are modded wrong... Watchmen uses slash as a filler, and mu Merciless crits for around 4800 with just the main hand the off hand if it crits with it is around 1100... the best you could hope is to crit for what my merciless normally hits for.

 

 

you forget my dots are nearly always ticking, its not some small part of watchmen damage its more then half of it and its not midigated.

 

 

hell i just started a new sent on a new server and just getting merciless slash at 40 and it crits for 2k. I'm all for opinions, but the FACT it combat cannot keep up with watchmen

[Mal-Sharran]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear, I was stating main hand damage for MS, due to the fact that I have 69% off-hand accuracy and frequently miss with the off-hand portion of the attack. When I crit, and both sabers hit, I crit for 3.8-4.1k.

[selectah]

Fact is: Watchman and Combat do comparable long term dmg, as far as we know. With high lvl gear and stats, which are optimised for combat, i could see combat in front by a bit if BR animation issues got resolved(compare IraeAOD raiding guide for marauders and sents).

 

Still ther`s the utility/survivability part in watchman that makes it a better spec pve wise atm.

With that i don`t mean the self-/partyheals which are neglectible low and the healers are good enough anyway so you wouldn`t need them. Utility wise we have a 6 second kick and a second 0m interrupt. With that watchman is able to solo interrupt sorno with ease. On surviability we got the arguable best talent out there: the 100% dmg reduction on force camo. I mean seriously you can dodge any direct or aoe attack any pve boss is throwing at you (and there are a lot).

Edited February 21, 2012 by selectah

[Mal-Sharran]

if you really have that much rakata and that little dot damage you are modded wrong... Watchmen uses slash as a filler, and mu Merciless crits for around 4800 with just the main hand the off hand if it crits with it is around 1100... the best you could hope is to crit for what my merciless normally hits for.

 

 

you forget my dots are nearly always ticking, its not some small part of watchmen damage its more then half of it and its not midigated.

 

 

hell i just started a new sent on a new server and just getting merciless slash at 40 and it crits for 2k. I'm all for opinions, but the FACT it combat cannot keep up with watchmen

 

I just equipped a crit/surge relic, and got a crit MS. Main hand 3500, off 900. Still only comes to 4400. How you possibly hit 4800 with just your main hand, and yet you're so close to my off-hand damage, I have no idea. Your main hand crit, you claim, is 1300 damage stronger than mine. But your off-hand crit is only 200. That seems really, really inconsistent.

[Hizoka]

I just equipped a crit/surge relic, and got a crit MS. Main hand 3500, off 900. Still only comes to 4400. How you possibly hit 4800 with just your main hand, and yet you're so close to my off-hand damage, I have no idea. Your main hand crit, you claim, is 1300 damage stronger than mine. But your off-hand crit is only 200. That seems really, really inconsistent.

 

power, i have hundreds of power more then you. The off hand does not scale that is why they are nearly the same, but i have prolly 200-300 more power then you.

 

My guess is that you are about 31-33% crit self buffed, and about 200-250 power.

 

I stopped getting crit at 25% and put everything into power i have 527 power currently.

 

Power is the best stat period in the game as far as a damage per point basis. Crit not only has a DR on the stat, but crit itself is a diminishing stat by the nature of it being a terminating stat.

 

Power is the most "powerful" stat because it increases everything not only normal attack but critical attacks as well, and if increases the base of the crit attack it makes surge more potent as its increasing a larger number by the same percentage. That is why watchmen is better then combat.

 

Dots not only get 15% more damage from the watchmen tree they have an additional 30% crit modifier which you add to your surge modifier, my dots crit for 106.5% of their damage. Combat cannot compete with that kind of scaling. Combat doesn't have anything that can contend with the scaling of Watchmen. If watchmen beat combat at low end gear the gap only gets larger with better gear provided you gear correctly.

 

Keep in mind all video games are governed by math, understand the math and you understand the game.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Hizoka

[Mal-Sharran]

power, i have hundreds of power more then you. The off hand does not scale that is why they are nearly the same, but i have prolly 200-300 more power then you.

 

My guess is that you are about 31-33% crit self buffed, and about 200-250 power.

 

I stopped getting crit at 25% and put everything into power i have 527 power currently.

 

Power is the best stat period in the game as far as a damage per point basis. Crit not only has a DR on the stat, but crit itself is a diminishing stat by the nature of it being a terminating stat.

 

Power is the most "powerful" stat because it increases everything not only normal attack but critical attacks as well, and if increases the base of the crit attack it makes surge more potent as its increasing a larger number by the same percentage. That is why watchmen is better then combat.

 

Dots not only get 15% more damage from the watchmen tree they have an additional 30% crit modifier which you add to your surge modifier, my dots crit for 106.5% of their damage. Combat cannot compete with that kind of scaling. Combat doesn't have anything that can contend with the scaling of Watchmen. If watchmen beat combat at low end gear the gap only gets larger with better gear provided you gear correctly.

 

381 power, actually. 32% crit. 78% surge. And Combat gets 30% surge to their 3 main attacks as well, and an extra 30% damage to Ataru strike, which has a 50% chance per strike of procing, so you might even consider it a dot (mine did over 1k in pure surge gear before surge nerf).

 

I'm new to Watchman, but I'm a damn good gamer. I was consistently top damage in WoW, in the best guild on the server (not top 100 material, but we downed everything, hardmode). And I did so by exhaustive theorycrafting and exhaustive sessions at the training dummy, honing my skills. I have no damage meters, not concrete guides, and no training dummies to learn from. Add to that my slightly less than two weeks with this spec, and I admit I'm still discovering things. I will wager 1 million credits that when damage meters are added, you will be shocked at how close Combat comes to your precious Watchman. It may not compete in survivability or utility, but that was never the topic. The topic was damage. Good day to you, time to rest...

Edited February 21, 2012 by Mal-Sharran

[Hizoka]

381 power, actually. 32% crit. 78% surge. And Combat gets 30% surge to their 3 main attacks as well, so...

 

I'm new to Watchman, but I'm a damn good gamer. I was consistently top damage in WoW, in the best guild on the server (not top 100 material, but we downed everything, hardmode). And I did so by exhaustive theorycrafting and exhaustive sessions at the training dummy, honing my skills. I have no damage meters, not concrete guides, and no training dummies to learn from. Add to that my slightly less than two weeks with this spec, and I admit I'm still discovering things. I will wager 1 million credits that when damage meters are added, you will be shocked at how close Combat comes to your precious Watchman. It may not compete in survivability or utility, but that was never the topic. The topic was damage. Good day to you, time to rest...

 

Close only counts in horse shoes and hand gernades. If watchmen does more damage, or is "close" as you say, and has more survivability and more utility, tell me again why any good raid leader would bring a combat sentinel?

[Apocalypse-]

381 power, actually. 32% crit. 78% surge....

 

If you're as good as you claim to be, your problem should be obvious to you. Dropping 100 Crit rating and 150 Surge is only going to drop you ~1% crit and ~3% surge* at those numbers, and you can get a lot of Power to replace it.

 

*78%? Seriously? I've got 75.x% with around 260-280 surge, and using my 585 surge adrenal only puts me to 79%... http://sithwarrior.com/forums/attachment.php?aid=204 judging by that, you're pushing 400 surge, which is just terrible gearing

Edited February 21, 2012 by Apocalypse-

[Hizoka]

If you're as good as you claim to be, your problem should be obvious to you. Dropping 100 Crit rating and 150 Surge is only going to drop you ~1% crit and ~3% surge* at those numbers, and you can get a lot of Power to replace it.

 

*78%? Seriously? I've got 75% with around 260-290 surge, and using my 585 surge adrenal only puts me to 79%... http://sithwarrior.com/forums/attachment.php?aid=204 judging by that, you're pushing 400 surge, which is just terrible gearing

 

which further proves my early statement, the better players go watchmen.

[Ainianu]

which further proves my early statement, the better players go watchmen.

 

Its called Confirmation Bias

[Foreverman]

Focus gives highest burst and sustained DPS. Done.

[Vodrin]

Focus gives highest burst and sustained DPS. Done.

 

Focus is considerably more difficult to max your DPS on most fights though. I found watchman far easier to bring heavy damage consistently.

 

Despite that for PvP I am primarily focus. Being able to chain force exhaustion, blade storm, zealous leap, and force sweep for a guaranteed 7.5K damage with good potential for as high as 11K damage with crits is pretty nice. Especially since it can be repeated every 12 seconds.

[ryuukhang]

Watchman:

 

Valorous Call

Leap(4 focus, assuming PvE build) - 800 damage - 1.5 seconds

OS(1) - Off GCD

Zealous(7) - 1000 - 1 stack OS 3 seconds - 3 seconds

Cauterize(5) - 1000 - 2 stacks OS and Cauterize - 4.5 seconds

Merciless(1) - 3300 - 3 stacks OS - 6 seconds

Zen - Off GCD

Oh snap, both Zealous Strike and Leap are still on cd

Strike(3) - 1000 - 7.5 seconds

Strike(5) - 1000 - 9 seconds

Strike(7) - 1000 - 10.5 seconds

Slash(5) - 1800 - 12 seconds

Leap(9) - 800 - 13.5 seconds

Slash(7) - 1800 - 15 seconds

OS(4)

Zealous(10) - 1000 - 1 stack OS - 16.5 seconds

Merciless(6) - 3300 - 2 stacks OS - 18 seconds

Cauterize(4) - 1000 - 3 stacks OS and Cauterize 19.5 seconds

Zen (if available, should be)

 

First of all, that's only the first 20 seconds of a fight. You forget that Merciless lowers the cooldown of Merciless with each use, up to 4.5 seconds, making it 7.5 seconds cooldown.

 

Second, you're not taking account a few things into consideration. No Master Strike? Why would you not?

 

Thirdly, why won't you keep track of both specs for 5 minutes and then do a comparison, because that's roughly the amount of time it takes in hard mode ops assuming average players. Not to mention, in those 20 seconds, you showed that you don't know how to play Watchman.

[Mal-Sharran]

First of all, that's only the first 20 seconds of a fight. You forget that Merciless lowers the cooldown of Merciless with each use, up to 4.5 seconds, making it 7.5 seconds cooldown.

 

Second, you're not taking account a few things into consideration. No Master Strike? Why would you not?

 

Thirdly, why won't you keep track of both specs for 5 minutes and then do a comparison, because that's roughly the amount of time it takes in hard mode ops assuming average players. Not to mention, in those 20 seconds, you showed that you don't know how to play Watchman.

 

Heh, I love the people who read up to a certain point, quote somebody, and totally miss the rest of the convo. I gave a 20 second scenario because who the **** would read a 5 minute one? I'm not going to even try and type out something like that, *******. Secondly, minus the lack of Master Strike, I guarantee you what I listed is pretty damn close to accurate. It's really simple, I'll spell it out for you.

 

Priority (rotation):

Zen (used with a full stack of OS, of course, not while building it)

MS (if you're within 2-3 seconds of losing the stacking buff)

Dispatch (super cheap, super hard)

Cauterize (while never overwriting your current burn)

MS (to hopefully refresh the CD on Cauterize)

OS

Zealous (so long as you have no more than 5 focus, otherwise you might waste Burning Focus)

Master Strike (but you better be sure neither Merc and Caut won't come off cd halfway through)

Slash (filler when all is on cd and you have high resources)

Strike

 

Tell me oh wise and ****** gamer, am I so horribly off with this? Or did I nail it? I'll tell you what, I bet I nailed it, because figuring out a priority is simple.

 

And thirdly? Keep track how? Do you have a damage meter? I sure don't. Why don't you let us all in on your secret, I'd love to be able to parse. Oh wait...you can't. Because there is no way to track damage /facepalm.

[Tumri]

i have NEVER had anyone beat me in NMM council. Commanods are the arcane mage of this game, so simple to play it can be done with a dippy bird, and i cannot see vanguards keeping up with any of the other DPS...

 

That's anecdotal evidence. You might be better than the people you play with. They might be gearing wrong, speccing wrong, doing it wrong, etc.

 

In general a well played Watchman/Annihilation (our best spec) Marauder will be beaten by an equally geared and skilled player on a Vanguard, Commando, or Sniper. I know it's a shame considering we're the only pure DPS melee AC in the game but it is how it is.

[Apocalypse-]

That's anecdotal evidence. You might be better than the people you play with. They might be gearing wrong, speccing wrong, doing it wrong, etc.

 

In general a well played Watchman/Annihilation (our best spec) Marauder will be beaten by an equally geared and skilled player on a Vanguard, Commando, or Sniper. I know it's a shame considering we're the only pure DPS melee AC in the game but it is how it is.

 

Vanguards are the only class that can beat us ST, and they've got just as good of a chance at beating us as they do us trouncing them because they rely on a uninfluenceable RNG to sustain both their DPS and their ammo management. Commandos only beat us in numbers, as Grav Round stacking makes each commando better for each commando present. We also benefit from Commandos being there, but they don't benefit from us being there as much as we benefit from them.

[ryuukhang]

Heh, I love the people who read up to a certain point, quote somebody, and totally miss the rest of the convo. I gave a 20 second scenario because who the **** would read a 5 minute one? I'm not going to even try and type out something like that, *******. Secondly, minus the lack of Master Strike, I guarantee you what I listed is pretty damn close to accurate. It's really simple, I'll spell it out for you.

Then don't give a 20 second scenario at the beginning and give a 20 second scenario where the cooldown on Merciless is 7.5 seconds and not 12 seconds.

 

Tell me oh wise and ****** gamer, am I so horribly off with this? Or did I nail it? I'll tell you what, I bet I nailed it, because figuring out a priority is simple.

Then why didn't you get it correct with the first post?

 

And thirdly? Keep track how? Do you have a damage meter? I sure don't. Why don't you let us all in on your secret, I'd love to be able to parse. Oh wait...you can't. Because there is no way to track damage /facepalm.

Do it the same way you did those 20 seconds. Track what abilities you used with the seconds and the damage it does. I wasn't saying do a full parse, just make it longer than 20 seconds to compare the damage, because we all know that combat will do more burst (especially at the beginning of a fight).

 

PS. Do you really need to resort to name calling? Seriously? Nowhere in my post did I ridicule you. Nowhere. No wonder they didn't take you seriously, and no wonder we can't have an adult discussion regarding combat and watchman - no I'm not just referring to you, there are people exactly like you on the watchman side of the debate.

[Mal-Sharran]

Then don't give a 20 second scenario at the beginning and give a 20 second scenario where the cooldown on Merciless is 7.5 seconds and not 12 seconds.

 

 

Then why didn't you get it correct with the first post?

 

 

Do it the same way you did those 20 seconds. Track what abilities you used with the seconds and the damage it does. I wasn't saying do a full parse, just make it longer than 20 seconds to compare the damage, because we all know that combat will do more burst (especially at the beginning of a fight).

 

PS. Do you really need to resort to name calling? Seriously? Nowhere in my post did I ridicule you. Nowhere. No wonder they didn't take you seriously, and no wonder we can't have an adult discussion regarding combat and watchman - no I'm not just referring to you, there are people exactly like you on the watchman side of the debate.

 

For starters, I apologize. My frustration was not directed at you, but I vented at you. There have been some very snide remarks in this post, from people who CLEARLY are biased (and failed to provide a SHRED of constructive evidence to support their claim). I have played both specs, Combat more than Watchman I admit, and I truly believe they are neck and neck. I don't know which is superior over a long duration (5+ minutes) in their current form, but I know for a fact when/if Combat is fixed and tweaked, it will be on par or ahead of Watchman.

 

On a side note, I was very tired when I posted my original 'parse' and made obvious mistakes. On another note, the way I was attacked was a prime example of what you stated. You CAN'T have a civil, adult discussion on this topic. People want to believe the spec they've chosen is best, and will (in some cases) blindly defend it with hearsay, guesses and in some cases downright misinformation. I'm usually above it all, but my defenses were down from lack of sleep.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Mal-Sharran