Larkie Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 To the guy whining about something needing to be done about people that set high prices for mats -- Maybe it is a gold seller, maybe it isn't. But I don't sell "gold" and I certainly do buy up mats that are priced too low (low supply) and sell them for much higher prices (gouging/high demand.) It doesn't take a genious to play the market, but it apparently takes a spine to enter it. A spine? LOL. Wow, yeah, you sure have real courage gouging the virtual resource market in a video game . Most people choose not to do it because they don't want to be jerks, but whatever helps you sleep at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiLune Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 A spine? LOL. Wow, yeah, you sure have real courage gouging the virtual resource market in a video game . Most people choose not to do it because they don't want to be jerks, but whatever helps you sleep at night. I sleep just fine and I don't whine about pricing on the GTN because I understand the market forces. The posts about "gold-selling" are ridiculous entitled whining by a virtual child. Gold sellers are a problem because they create rampant inflation on servers. This game already created the inflation with readily available credits. Accusing "gougers" of being gold-sellers is a cop out because you can't bear to get into the market and make the available credits. i.e. Spineless. I have utter contempt for those who feel that other players should be restricted from selling a mat (for example) for 1000 credits when I make that in 5 MINUTES doing a mid-level space combat mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I sleep just fine and I don't whine about pricing on the GTN because I understand the market forces. The posts about "gold-selling" are ridiculous entitled whining by a virtual child. Gold sellers are a problem because they create rampant inflation on servers. This game already created the inflation with readily available credits. Accusing "gougers" of being gold-sellers is a cop out because you can't bear to get into the market and make the available credits. i.e. Spineless. I have utter contempt for those who feel that other players should be restricted from selling a mat (for example) for 1000 credits when I make that in 5 MINUTES doing a mid-level space combat mission. You don't whine about pricing on the GTN because you admitted you're the one gouging people. Why in the world would anyone whine about something they themselves are causing? Personally I don't whine about it because I've played MMO's before and I've dealt with your kind before. As for you calling people "spineless" because they choose not to make their credits by simply reselling resources that other people gathered that's about the most idiotic statement I've read on this forum and there are plenty of those to be had. 1. Playing a video game has nothing to do with "courage". If you disagree, go talk to a soldier. 2. Choosing not to price-gouge the market on resources is simply that, a choice. 3. Your way of making credits doesn't mean you're talented or super-skilled or anything of the like - it involves standing around the fleet for long periods of time, clicking buy, splitting, then putting it back for sale. It's not rocket science. 4. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake no matter what your mother may have told you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moordrake Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 And still no RE luvin in the latest PTS patch notes http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2897337#edit2897337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasson Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 And still no RE luvin in the latest PTS patch notes http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2897337#edit2897337 If anyone would bother to read the developer tracker you would see the issue is being addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 See, this contributes to the problem, when people attempt to pass off losely constructed conjecture as fact. The above assesment is totally incorrect. I've run the numbers as I was performing the tasks, and documented it all. Quickly demnstrated, This was done at the proper level for the item, so as to ascertain accurate figures for the level. One applicable mission was available per round. Only "moderate" missions became available. The cost per mission was 1020c each (moderate missions). Thirteen missions were run in order to assertain a blue pattern. 10 alien artifacts 2 failed missions 12 Hypers (item needed). Cost per Hyper calculated to be 1105c per (not all that far off from 1800c), not at all the absurdity the above poster attempted to demonstrate, especially when calculating the time involved, and overall cost per item. Blah blah blah First, your math is wrong. Cost per artifact in YOUR own example is ~602. Unless you were stupid enough to toss the alien artifacts into the disposal and didn't simply use them when your skill increased to where THEY were the artifact of choice, or sell them on the GTN. Also, if you only had the very inefficient gathering missions available, then it seems to me like your "proper level for the item" is blatantly wrong. YOU are the one foolish enough to start making items you aren't really skilled enough to work on yet because you aren't skilled enough to get the mats at a far more efficent price point. I leveled through that range paying <200cr per artifact just fine and dandy, though I can't say I bothered taking meticulous notes. Just that either "Hidden sins" or "Relics of the Kwa" were almost always available, and the yield per was always over 10 artifacts each. Perhaps the time you spent taking such meticulous notes would have been better spent on figuring out how to pay less per item? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WedgeFan Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I think it's very clear mate, but don't bother...realy... Plain stupidity and trolls are in the order of the day! No mater what, you will have always some one saying RE is just working fine... ... How sad it is! So because I've had better success (or luck as some see it) I'm stupid and a troll for saying it's not completely broken? That's a nice way of winning others over to your cause. I've had my bad stretches with this system. I've gone over 80 RE's before getting a low level blue, but I still don't feel the system is broken. It does tend to reward those who stick with it. It's not a system designed to sate the instant gratification crowd. Others have written this, and I'll echo it...... If everyone had everything, there'd be little point. My biggest complaint, and it's not very big, is unlocking a schematic that I already know. Honestly, that's happened to me 3 times over the course of the entire lifespan of the game so far (several thousand RE's at this point). Those odds are something I can live with. When it's fixed I'll be happy, but it's not stopping me from crafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 A spine? LOL. Wow, yeah, you sure have real courage gouging the virtual resource market in a video game . Most people choose not to do it because they don't want to be jerks, but whatever helps you sleep at night. Actually, Larkie, on this I concur with you, absolutely. The argument that it takes "spine" to do anything in a video game gave me a chuckle. You are correct, this is a matter of character, not spine. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 11 Re's this morning (5 level 49 blues, 6 level 21 1st tier purple) and I learned an awesome level 49 purple recipe for my main class. Just wanted to make sure everyone realizes that RE is STILL working the SAME as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) First, your math is wrong. Cost per artifact in YOUR own example is ~602. Unless you were stupid enough to toss the alien artifacts into the disposal and didn't simply use them when your skill increased to where THEY were the artifact of choice, or sell them on the GTN. The first sign that one will be examining a shallow argument is when the opposition leads with ad-hominum attacks such as "unless you were stupid". Don't do that. ;p Second is that the math is accurate. 13 missions at 1020 each, yeilding a return of 12 relevant items does equal 1105 per item. Third, they never become "the artifact of choice". The item becomes more available after you pass the level of appropriateness, not during. At that time, utilizing the system as is intended, one has surpassed the level of relevance by the time they are at that point. That would be seen as an unintended result. Also, if you only had the very inefficient gathering missions available, then it seems to me like your "proper level for the item" is blatantly wrong. YOU are the one foolish enough to start making items you aren't really skilled enough to work on yet because you aren't skilled enough to get the mats at a far more efficent price point. I leveled through that range paying <200cr per artifact just fine and dandy, though I can't say I bothered taking meticulous notes. Just that either "Hidden sins" or "Relics of the Kwa" were almost always available, and the yield per was always over 10 artifacts each. Perhaps the time you spent taking such meticulous notes would have been better spent on figuring out how to pay less per item? You have actually helped to support the "time sink" argument with your first line statement. The level or acquirement is the level at which the crafted item can be utilized, not at a level far past the appropriate use of the item. The simplest means by which this can be calculated (though there are others) is to determine the availability of nodes on a particular planet, the level of those nodes in comparison with the player level for that planet cross references with the level of gear required for the player level. Doing so will, and does dictate the appropriate level for skill in conjunction with item level. That is the entirety of that particular issue. You are proceeding from a false premise that dictates that one must first farm and gain levels in advance of the proposed use of the item, then revert back in order to produce the item for use. That is, again, the crux of your problem in this argument, and exemplifies the problem further. You may also note that I did, in fact, begin farming ahead of the intended time frame but still yielded negative results. Bashing or insulting someone will not change that fact. Making brash, irrational, or unsupported claims will not either. However, if you want to test as I did and present counter evidence that would legitimately contradict the veracity of my contention then I would be willing to examine that. Edited February 18, 2012 by Blackardin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 11 Re's this morning (5 level 49 blues, 6 level 21 1st tier purple) and I learned an awesome level 49 purple recipe for my main class. Just wanted to make sure everyone realizes that RE is STILL working the SAME as always. Yes, randomly inferior. By that same analysis, someone posted 35 greens to turn a low level blue. Another poster added 250 blues to turn a purple. I've experienced both and also experienced two purples back to back. That is the entirety of the problem. Worked for you, failed for many others based not on a learning curve, effort, or skill, but a random number generator that is tuned to far to one side, presents no means of advancement, and has a tendency to support a tradeskill environment that does everything except direct the player to use it as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowThunder Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) What I want to know is, now that they borked the system with the combination of high cost, low yield mats and the high fail rate, what are they going to do about "gold sellers" buying up all the mats on the GTN and then price gouging them? Just today I was, due to many, many fails, trying to buy some Hypertech fragments. Average cost on the GTN right now is about 1800 each. While on an alt I caught someone putting them up for a more normal price of 165 each. By the time i switched to my main to buy them the gold farmer that has every single Hypertech re-sold, already scooped them up, marked them up and posted them. You would think it would be understood by now that if one creates an extremely high demand for mats in an attempt to make trade skills "hard", all they do is create a mat farming, gold farming enterprise. That isn't gold sellers it is just intelligent players looking to make their $ Edited February 18, 2012 by SnowThunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkie Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Yes, randomly inferior. By that same analysis, someone posted 35 greens to turn a low level blue. Another poster added 250 blues to turn a purple. I've experienced both and also experienced two purples back to back. That is the entirety of the problem. Worked for you, failed for many others based not on a learning curve, effort, or skill, but a random number generator that is tuned to far to one side, presents no means of advancement, and has a tendency to support a tradeskill environment that does everything except direct the player to use it as intended. Whatever you may think of the system itself, it's still not broken. Nerfing it rather than changing it will not help anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 That ins't gold sellers it is just intelligent players looking to make their $ I know for a fact that it is gold sellers, or I should say it is a standard method employed, to great success by gold sellers. Certainly I will yield your point as it is also valid. It is a relatively effective means by which someone can earn an abundance of credits with the system working as it currently is. Players, as you say, smart players are emulating that. So yes, I would agree that there are players doing so also. The real smart players, however, are using the loss leader model, which is both utilized by those same gold sellers, and to greater success. The point however is that it does not matter who is doing it, but that it is being promoted by a system that is not working as intended. Matt selling should never exceed the yield of the actual product. Not if we are going to call it a crafting system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Whatever you may think of the system itself, it's still not broken. Nerfing it rather than changing it will not help anyone. I'm not suggesting nerfing the system, but redirecting it to its intended use. Nerfing is the diminishing the effectiveness of an item or system, not enhancing its effectiveness. Changing it will, in fact, help the bulk of their target audience, or demographic. It will allow them to work the system as intended, to their advantage as intended, and compete on a level playing field, able to sell their wares at a profit. It will injure gold sellers, mat farmers, etc. From that standpoint, yes, it is a nerf. I'm not concerned with their opinion however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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