Jump to content

Comparing Pyro builds

Bamajawn

By Bamajawn
in Commando / Mercenary

 Share

Recommended Posts

Bamajawn

Bamajawn

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm currently specced to this build from Giamonti-prime's Merc Pyrotech Guide (sticky):

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300MzZMckZfhMbdGhrs.1

 

I've been fairly happy with the build both in PvE and PvP, but it lacks punch. I did some fooling around with the builder tool and came up with the build below. Basically, I dropped the top Pyro skills to get Tracer Missile from the Arsenal tree and the additional Afterburners knockback.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300MZMIk0RMZMIMbdGbM.1

 

Has anyone tried anything similar, and what did you experience? What do other Mercs think of the new build? I'm considering a re-spec to try it out. Thanks for the input.

Edited by Bamajawn
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ShizzySupra

ShizzySupra

Posted
Posted (edited)

The second build looks gimped. You basically have to spam tracer missile and you don't have any instants such as Heatseeker or Thermal. You have to run CGC to make the pyro tree procs but you are then missing out on the armor pen of IGC.

 

Your first build looks a lot better but I would pick up Gyroscopic Alignment above Stealth Scan increases but that's my preference. It's surprising that you say it lacks punch. I have no problem keeping consistent mobile damage going on people in PvP. Favorite is watching them try to stealth/vanish or force sprint away only to be blown up by a thermal/dot.

Edited by ShizzySupra
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bamajawn

Bamajawn

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
The second build looks gimped. You basically have to spam tracer missile and you don't have any instants such as Heatseeker or Thermal. You have to run CGC to make the pyro tree procs but you are then missing out on the armor pen of IGC.

 

Your first build looks a lot better but I would pick up Gyroscopic Alignment above Stealth Scan increases but that's my preference. It's surprising that you say it lacks punch. I have no problem keeping consistent mobile damage going on people in PvP. Favorite is watching them try to stealth/vanish or force sprint away only to be blown up by a thermal/dot.

 

Good point on the first, I missed that. As for the first build, I wish I could claim credit, but it was posted here in a sticky.

 

Perhaps I'm expecting too much when I'm looking for "punch". It's a bit difficult to assess the build in PvP because most PvP is Huttball for me. It's very chaotic and, chances are, I have 1-5 people casting on me at one time while I can only focus on one individual or group. I have a very difficult time quantifying how I'm doing other than to use the scoreboard and gut feel.

Edited by Bamajawn
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ShizzySupra

ShizzySupra

Posted
Posted

For me it's a matter of what happens in 1v1 situations. As a former full arsenal I got wrecked 1v1 by any class that could consistently interrupt tracer. Switching to unload didn't yield enough damage unless it had been proc'd. The cast time was annoying for TM when I wasn't being interrupted/knocked back.

 

I only feel weaker when I am in a situation where as an arsenal I could just spam the heck out of TM/Heatseeker from a railing without anyone noticing me. The difference is now if someone notices me I don't immediately freak out and try to get them off me asap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bamajawn

Bamajawn

Posted
  • Author
Posted
For me it's a matter of what happens in 1v1 situations. As a former full arsenal I got wrecked 1v1 by any class that could consistently interrupt tracer. Switching to unload didn't yield enough damage unless it had been proc'd. The cast time was annoying for TM when I wasn't being interrupted/knocked back.

 

I only feel weaker when I am in a situation where as an arsenal I could just spam the heck out of TM/Heatseeker from a railing without anyone noticing me. The difference is now if someone notices me I don't immediately freak out and try to get them off me asap.

 

That makes sense. I've never specced as full Arsenal, so I don't have any experience with the spec.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Subasio

Subasio

Posted
Posted

With full arsenal in PVP you gotta accept your a glass cannon..

 

How to be effective? LoS and pick your battles, get on high ground, stuff like that. It's really not that bad, you just have to get smart and stealthy.

 

Sentinels are still a biaaaatch though :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sentry_gun

Sentry_gun

Posted
Posted

I like the idea of the pyro builds have have dabbled in them a little so far but they feel like they don't really come to life until late game when you have an assload of talent points to invest in the tree. The talent tree offers high mobility which is something that arsenal is jacking badly and being able to continue to deal damage while on the move tends to pay big dividends as the difficulty of end-game content increases.

 

I would imagine my pve pyro build to look something like this. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3000cZMckZfhMbdGhrs.1

 

Playing Arsenal atm and the "bend over and launch the *** rocket" animation of tracer missile annoys the hell out of me, but the build feels more combat effective at my level (at least for pve).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ZeroPlus

ZeroPlus

Posted
Posted

I've been considering a hybrid build like this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3000cZrckM0MZfGMbzGhM.1.

 

The idea is to forgo the top talents in Pyro and pick up some survivability, damage and utility from across the trees.

 

The idea being:

Improved Survivability from "Integrated Systems (2/2)", "Custom Enviro Suit (2/2)" and "Integrated Cardio Package (2/3)". This provides me with 8% more healing received and 4% extra Endurance.

Improved Damage from "Mandolorian Iron Warheads (2/2)", "Ironsights (3/3)", "Superheated Gas (3/3)", "Superheated Rail (2/2)", and ""Rain of Fire (3/3)". This provides me with more damage either directly or by increasing the damage of the CGC dot.

Improved Crit Chance from "Hired Muscle (3/3)", "Upgraded Arsenal (1/1)", "Target Tracking (2/2)" and "Firebug (2/2)". This provides me with a 9% crit increase across the board and 30% for Unload, CGC dot, RS and IM.

Utility is basically "Sweltering Heat (2/2)".

Reduced Costs from "Muzzle Fluting (1/1)" and "Prototype Particle Accelerator (3/3)". Arguably, "Superheated Rail (2/2)" and "Rapid Venting (2/2)" also contribute to reduced costs due to allowing for free shots or quicker venting.

 

This is a leveling/solo build. I'm still busy leveling, and slowly filling in the talents, so I have no idea how this will play out at 50. However, theoritically it should be a very interesting spec across the board.

 

What do you think. Is this something that is viable, or should I simply stick with 1 tree?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bamajawn

Bamajawn

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
I've been considering a hybrid build like this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3000cZrckM0MZfGMbzGhM.1.

 

The idea is to forgo the top talents in Pyro and pick up some survivability, damage and utility from across the trees.

 

The idea being:

Improved Survivability from "Integrated Systems (2/2)", "Custom Enviro Suit (2/2)" and "Integrated Cardio Package (2/3)". This provides me with 8% more healing received and 4% extra Endurance.

Improved Damage from "Mandolorian Iron Warheads (2/2)", "Ironsights (3/3)", "Superheated Gas (3/3)", "Superheated Rail (2/2)", and ""Rain of Fire (3/3)". This provides me with more damage either directly or by increasing the damage of the CGC dot.

Improved Crit Chance from "Hired Muscle (3/3)", "Upgraded Arsenal (1/1)", "Target Tracking (2/2)" and "Firebug (2/2)". This provides me with a 9% crit increase across the board and 30% for Unload, CGC dot, RS and IM.

Utility is basically "Sweltering Heat (2/2)".

Reduced Costs from "Muzzle Fluting (1/1)" and "Prototype Particle Accelerator (3/3)". Arguably, "Superheated Rail (2/2)" and "Rapid Venting (2/2)" also contribute to reduced costs due to allowing for free shots or quicker venting.

 

This is a leveling/solo build. I'm still busy leveling, and slowly filling in the talents, so I have no idea how this will play out at 50. However, theoritically it should be a very interesting spec across the board.

 

What do you think. Is this something that is viable, or should I simply stick with 1 tree?

 

That's an interesting build. I've also been considering the value of the top of the Pyro tree. Thermal Detonator doesn't seem to do much for me in PvP, which is what I'd like to excel in. I've played with putting TD in different slots in rotation, but perhaps I'm missing something in the absence of a log to examine.

 

After evaluating responses and thinking some more, I think my most significant weakness is the lack of understanding the weaknesses of some of the other classes rather than my build. My gear is bumped as far as I can take it without more commendations and drops in hardmodes. I may look more at tweaking the build, but I'm definitely studying up on tactics.

Edited by Bamajawn
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ShizzySupra

ShizzySupra

Posted
Posted

^^^OP don't take this the wrong way but I think you are just extremely terrible at PvP or something. If you can't figure out how TD could work for you in PvP then you need to just take a break from the game. It's an INSTANT CAST damage dealer that when timed with a railshot/unload/powershot can do very quick burst damage.

 

You said you were 50 but you have never been to the top of either Arsenal or Pyro? Have you just been running around with all your spec points in random spots all over? I think this is a serious L2P issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ShizzySupra

ShizzySupra

Posted
Posted

This is a terrible spec. CGC doesn't have a guarunteed proc as a Arsenal Merc. You don't have tracer missle, TD, or Heatseeker. So your ONLY damage dealers are channeled casts with occasional railshot.

 

The extra 4% endurance is completely negligible. 8% healing received is worthless as well. (Mako is there to heal you, 8% isn't worth giving up damage)

 

This is a very bad PvP spec and you will have huge issues against tougher mobs in PvE as well.

 

I've been considering a hybrid build like this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#3000cZrckM0MZfGMbzGhM.1.

 

The idea is to forgo the top talents in Pyro and pick up some survivability, damage and utility from across the trees.

 

The idea being:

Improved Survivability from "Integrated Systems (2/2)", "Custom Enviro Suit (2/2)" and "Integrated Cardio Package (2/3)". This provides me with 8% more healing received and 4% extra Endurance.

Improved Damage from "Mandolorian Iron Warheads (2/2)", "Ironsights (3/3)", "Superheated Gas (3/3)", "Superheated Rail (2/2)", and ""Rain of Fire (3/3)". This provides me with more damage either directly or by increasing the damage of the CGC dot.

Improved Crit Chance from "Hired Muscle (3/3)", "Upgraded Arsenal (1/1)", "Target Tracking (2/2)" and "Firebug (2/2)". This provides me with a 9% crit increase across the board and 30% for Unload, CGC dot, RS and IM.

Utility is basically "Sweltering Heat (2/2)".

Reduced Costs from "Muzzle Fluting (1/1)" and "Prototype Particle Accelerator (3/3)". Arguably, "Superheated Rail (2/2)" and "Rapid Venting (2/2)" also contribute to reduced costs due to allowing for free shots or quicker venting.

 

This is a leveling/solo build. I'm still busy leveling, and slowly filling in the talents, so I have no idea how this will play out at 50. However, theoritically it should be a very interesting spec across the board.

 

What do you think. Is this something that is viable, or should I simply stick with 1 tree?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ZeroPlus

ZeroPlus

Posted
Posted
This is a terrible spec. CGC doesn't have a guarunteed proc as a Arsenal Merc. You don't have tracer missle, TD, or Heatseeker. So your ONLY damage dealers are channeled casts with occasional railshot.

 

The extra 4% endurance is completely negligible. 8% healing received is worthless as well. (Mako is there to heal you, 8% isn't worth giving up damage)

 

This is a very bad PvP spec and you will have huge issues against tougher mobs in PvE as well.

 

Hi Shizzy,

 

Thanks for your input.

 

You are right: as an *Arsenal Merc* CGC doesn't have a guaranteed proc. However, the build I posted is a Pyro build with some things from Arsenal ;). For a Pyro, CGC has a 16% proc chance and it is refreshed by Rail Shot (RS in turn can have it's cooldown be reset by Power Shot and Unload to become a "free" shot). So, yes for *Arsenal*CGC is bad, but for Pyro it is good. ;)

 

As for Tracer Missile, Heatseeker Missiles and Thermal Detonator my resaoning was as follows:

- TM is very Arsenal specific and to really take advantage of it you need to take Light'Em Up and Tracer Lock. As a Pyro I get the same effect (more or less :)) from Superheated Gas and Superheated Rail.

- Heatseeker Missile is the 31 pointer of Arsenal. This is a Pyro build. No way to get it. :)

- Thermal Detonator is a lack luster upgrade to Explosive Dart. Slightly more damage, same cost and cooldown *but* no splash damage. The 6 points I save by not getting it allow me to branch out into Arsenal.

 

As for your comment "So your ONLY damage dealers are channeled casts with occasional railshot.". This isn't exactly right. I have the missiles (all instant, including Incendiary), Rapid Shots (it is buffed as a Pyro, so yes I do use it alot :)) and yes I have the 2 cast/channeled abilities Power Shot and Unload. However, the cast/channeled abilities have a pretty high chance to proc RS so it isn't "occasional railshot". RS is a pretty big part of the damage because of the constant procs that make it free and it refreshes the CGC dot.

 

The 4% extra Endurance is not really that negligible. Don't forget, the extra 5% Endurance from Hunter's Boon is applied after the 4% provided by the talents. As a survival talent it isn't that bad. :)

 

The 8% extra healing is nothing to scoff at either. It is a direct buff to *all* healing received: from you, your companion or another player.

 

To be honest, if you look at the talents I haven't given up any damage to get the extra 4%Endurance and 8% Healing. As a Pyro I'm a lot more mobile. I really don't "need" the benefit provided by "Stabilizers".

 

Could you expand a bit on your comment "very bad PvP spec"? It is a spec built around the dots with some weaving in of instant attacks with casts/channels to proc RSs. It doesn't have burst. But the survivability is there and I don't have to stand still to do damage...

 

As for solo PvE, I haven't had many problems up until now. Maybe later on I will but, as I stated, this is a work in progress as I am still levelling.

 

In light of the above explanations of my reasoning behind the build, do you still feel that it is a terrible spec? (Remember it is a Pyro spec, not "Arsenal". :)).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ZeroPlus

ZeroPlus

Posted
Posted
Do you guys actually play using of those specs posted? :|

 

Yes. :)

 

But as stated, I'm still levelling. So far, so good. The spec posted is where I plan to end up.

 

Theoretically it looks sound.

 

I posted in the hopes of getting some "reasoned" opinions about it. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bamajawn

Bamajawn

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
You said you were 50 but you have never been to the top of either Arsenal or Pyro? Have you just been running around with all your spec points in random spots all over? I think this is a serious L2P issue.

 

 

I'm specced to the top of the Pyro tree as outlined in the spec I posted.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300MzZMckZfhMbdGhrs.1

 

With regard to L2P, that's why I asked for advice on TD. Sure, it does damage, but my question was whether those points would be more effective if put into another skill. I'm fairly effective in matches, but want to be better than I am.

Edited by Bamajawn
Link to comment
Share on other sites
_DaGreat

_DaGreat

Posted
Posted
Why no love for Degauss. As mobility is the key to pyro survivability I am surprised more people don't use this. Works great for me in ilum getting in and out of Rep lines. Seems like no one is putting points in it. I am curious as to why. Maybe I am missing something.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bamajawn

Bamajawn

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Why no love for Degauss. As mobility is the key to pyro survivability I am surprised more people don't use this. Works great for me in ilum getting in and out of Rep lines. Seems like no one is putting points in it. I am curious as to why. Maybe I am missing something.

 

In the context of your strategy, it makes good sense in my mind. After putting two points into IR Sensors, I'm questioning the value of that decision.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...