Guardian Vs Shadow tank

[Desperaato]

Hia

 

was just wondering if we could get some pic's here displaying shadow and guardian tank fully geared with columi gear and post a pic from their character screen to see how much there is difference is in defensive stats as in DR/DF/ABSORB/SHIELD and Hp. Thank you

[TheLakers]

I can tell you right now, Shadow tanks will out DPS pure Guardian tanks (or def/vig) hybrids by x2-3. Not to mention having significantly more avoidance, which is the most use mitigation in pvp/pve. Oh and a pull, taunting while stealth, vanish, sprint, aoe knockback.

 

Guardian really got screwed on the tanking/utility front.

Edited February 15, 2012 by TheLakers

[Mirialol]

Hia

 

was just wondering if we could get some pic's here displaying shadow and guardian tank fully geared with columi gear and post a pic from their character screen to see how much there is difference is in defensive stats as in DR/DF/ABSORB/SHIELD and Hp. Thank you

 

guardians are absolute worst tanks in pvp

 

 

in wz tank spec guardian does 100k'ish dmg. tank shadow does 200k~300k

 

tank shadow can stealth, has much better CC abilities

 

guardian tank is much squishier than shadow tank

 

 

 

 

if playing guardian in pvp, dont play tank

[Desperaato]

im not thinking about this in Pvp i want to see the differences in Pve gear.

[davkei]

I have no problem with tanking as a jugg or guardian in pve nor pvp. Those who have problems simple does not know how to play the class.

[Celeitia]

guardians are absolute worst tanks in pvp

 

 

in wz tank spec guardian does 100k'ish dmg. tank shadow does 200k~300k

 

tank shadow can stealth, has much better CC abilities

 

guardian tank is much squishier than shadow tank

 

 

 

 

if playing guardian in pvp, dont play tank

That's why Defense sucks and you go Vigilance/Defense hybrid, for both PvP and PvE. Currently my stats hit:

 

~20k health unbuffed (add +5% for trooper, and +1k for stim)

51% damage reduction

21% parry (+6% while riposting, so technically 27% most of the time)

44% shield chance

42% absorb (60% for 6 seconds every 20 seconds due to a relic proc)

 

Swapping to PvP gear-- well, I don't have the stats handy, but I can usually pull ~180k damage in warzones, while getting some 11-12 medals from tanking/etc.

 

Defense sucks, go 14/27 Def/Vig.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Celeitia

[Desperaato]

I have no problem with tanking as a jugg or guardian in pve nor pvp. Those who have problems simple does not know how to play the class.

 

Did i ask for opinion's on l2p issues no i asked for images for comparison not some whine qq posts or anyhting else for that matter but the pic's.

[Grymtusk]

Did i ask for opinion's on l2p issues no i asked for images for comparison not some whine qq posts or anyhting else for that matter but the pic's.

 

Reading comprehension isn't a strong suit for people in general any more.

[TheLakers]

That's why Defense sucks and you go Vigilance/Defense hybrid, for both PvP and PvE. Currently my stats hit:

 

~20k health unbuffed (add +5% for trooper, and +1k for stim)

51% damage reduction

21% parry

44% shield chance

42% absorb (60% for 6 seconds every 20 seconds due to a relic proc)

 

Swapping to PvP gear-- well, I don't have the stats handy, but I can usually pull ~180k damage in warzones, while getting some 11-12 medals from tanking/etc.

 

Defense sucks, go 14/27 Def/Vig.

 

 

Except you're a gimp hybrid tank wearing dps gear, which means your endurance and mitigation isn't what it should be. 180k dmg is a joke compared to what Shadows and Vanguards can do. I have seen hybrid, TANK vanguards put 450k dmg without breaking a sweat. Shadows tanks can easily hit 350k.

 

To be honest, 14/27 is great for protection and staying alive. If you're trying to put up dps numbers in that build you're doing it wrong. Really, you want to save your the little burst you have for when someone gets low and crit dispatch/blade storm them. Other than that, Guardian def and vig/def hybrids have the worst DPS in the game. Even fully spec'd healing classes can out dmg you if they tried.

Edited February 15, 2012 by TheLakers

[Celeitia]

Except you're a gimp hybrid tank wearing dps gear, which means your endurance and mitigation isn't what it should be. 180k dmg is a joke compared to what Shadows and Vanguards can do. I have seen hybrid, TANK vanguards put 450k dmg without breaking a sweat. Shadows tanks can easily hit 350k.

 

To be honest, 14/27 is great for protection and staying alive. If you're trying to put up dps numbers in that build you're doing it wrong. Really, you want to save your the little burst you have for when someone gets low and crit dispatch/blade storm them. Other than that, Guardian def and vig/def hybrids have the worst DPS in the game. Even fully spec'd healing classes can out dmg you if they tried.

Who said I was in DPS gear?

 

I'm in half-Rakata half-Columi tanking gear, thank you very much. I find that pulling 180k while in tanking gear, using a hybrid spec, is pretty respectable. (While PvPing I switch to half-Champion half-Battlemaster tanking gear. I've been a BM for a month now but I have been really really unlucky with item tokens (and now commendations) so I don't have a full set yet.)

 

I never ever said that Shadows and Vanguards did not have it better.

 

Just that the claims that we can't go above 100k are false.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Celeitia

[UsaRabbit]

I don't have Guardian, but have Shadow(Main) and Vanguard. both has 4set of Columi and Mastercrafts.

also has a Rakata Implant, only this is what I have Rakata/T3 thing.

 

stats (with Tank Stance. no other buffs.)

 

*Shadow*

Health 20577

Armor 6765

Damage Reduction 42.52%

Defense Chance 30.22%

Shield Chance 36.62%( 56.62% with Kinetic Ward. Shadow Tank keeps this self buff always)

Shield Absorption 36.40%

 

*Vanguard*

Health 19834

Armor 8046

Damage Reduction 51.86%

Defense Chance 19.65%

Shield Chance 53.89%

Shield Absorption 33.46%

 

 

 

I customizing [Defense] more than shielding.

most Tank has 40%~50% Shield Absorption, and minus 10% Defense Chance.

 

hope it will some help.

[Malissant]

 

stats (with Tank Stance. no other buffs.)

 

*Shadow*

Health 20577

Armor 6765

Damage Reduction 42.52%

Defense Chance 30.22%

Shield Chance 36.62%( 56.62% with Kinetic Ward. Shadow Tank keeps this self buff always)

Shield Absorption 36.40%

 

*Vanguard*

Health 19834

Armor 8046

Damage Reduction 51.86%

Defense Chance 19.65%

Shield Chance 53.89%

Shield Absorption 33.46%

 

Here are my JG stats.

 

I'm in 6 pieces of Rakata, 3 Columi (legs, weapon, wrist), 2 Champion (implant, earpiece)

 

Health 20270

Armor 7582

Damage Reduction 47.25%

Defense Chance 21.49%

Shield Chance 32.47%

Shield Absorption 38.16%

[RydelFox]

The actual stat scaling should be the same between both classes, but the screenshots won't show bonuses for things like Blade Barricade or Kinetic Ward

 

Your Best bet would be to compare the effects of their talents and abilities. I think the tank class forum already has a post that does this, although it only list it from Defense, not Vig tanks.

[Celeitia]

The actual stat scaling should be the same between both classes, but the screenshots won't show bonuses for things like Blade Barricade or Kinetic Ward

 

Your Best bet would be to compare the effects of their talents and abilities. I think the tank class forum already has a post that does this, although it only list it from Defense, not Vig tanks.

Shadows and Vanguards get about twice as much from their skills (they're skills, not talents) as Guardians do; there is, in fact, a detailed analysis of this floating around somewhere.

[LimeInDeCoke]

Not in game atm, but stats are roughly (for JG)

Build is 14/27. Which is excellent in PVE and is awesome in PVP

 

 

21660 HP

51% dmg reduction

7500 armor

24% defense (30% with Reposte)

31% shield

30% absorption

 

 

EDIT: Here we go. Went and got it.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Vinny32/Caster.jpg

Edited February 18, 2012 by LimeInDeCoke

[Wrathoran]

hi there celeitia, could i see your hybrid build. Im unsure of which talent to pick for pve/pvp. Right now im full vigilance for leveling and its pretty darn good even without overhead slash.

[Celeitia]

hi there celeitia, could i see your hybrid build. Im unsure of which talent to pick for pve/pvp. Right now im full vigilance for leveling and its pretty darn good even without overhead slash.

> full vigilance

> without overhead slash

wat

 

Anyway, it's this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500dMG0uZhGMMrhdzMM.1

 

Which AFAIK is the standard 14/27 defense/vigilance hybrid tank spec.

[GarfieldJL]

Well since you are going tank Hybrid, I suppose that works.

 

If you go all out vigilence, I would actually recommend shien and plasma brand.

 

Both Overhead strike and Plasma Brand will activate the crit bonus for blade storm.

 

Plasma brand is incredibly useful against certain opponents.

1. Damage is backend DoT, plays havoc with healing critters.

2. Plasma brand largely ignores shields.

 

Overhead strike is a good front end attack but the DoT you can get afterward with certain skill tree boosts aren't all that damaging.

 

 

Back to the immediate subject on tanks.

 

Shadow Tanks are probably as capable of tanking as a Guardian if not more so because of how much they can actually dish out.

 

A tank only has to survive long enough to kill the enemy and have some hp left. Since a Shadow tank does 2 to 3x the damage of a Guardian tank, in a one on one situation they eliminate the target in 1/2 to 1/3 the time that a tank Guardian does.

 

While if no skills were activated and the two just stand there and take hits, the Guardian might survive longer, it does not make the Guardian a better tank, cause when fighting back and skills are brought into play, the shadow seems more apt to survive the encounters.

 

While focus allows us to do long duration fights, more easily, fact is in the case of a Shadow, I doubt they rarely end up having to focus on long duration fights cause the enemy is already dead.

[Wrathoran]

oh lol my mistake , i said without overhead slash because i didnt have it yet on my new JK, not that i will skip it.

 

Thanks im saving your build and ill be looking to try it out

[Doubledeath]

Alright so these builds you have been given are all standered boring builds and like they say a normal guardian tanks dmg is not great but what I will tell u in reality a shadow tanking vs a guardian is a joke question shadows will never have the dmg reduction we have in heavy armor and they can not hold aggro of multiple mobs well.

 

I want to show u my build i use for tanking and for dpsing most likely people will flame me for how terrible it is but if u want to be a good tank as a guardian this is what you should use. Your dmg will be much higher and boss fights will be a lot quicker killing trash mobs is great when u run around hitting for 2k and PVP in **shien** and u will still live but u will be able to destroy those guys that used to piss you off (like the BM healers)

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500cMhZfGMRrhddMR.1

 

To anyone that disagrees I dare u to try it and tell me it does not do More dmg and u didn't rly miss warding call that much because it doesn't help enough to really worry about it

 

will add numbers when i get back to my computer later sry i don't have them on hand

 

------------EDIT-------------

Self buffed in Tank Gear(all champion atm) and Sorensu Form

18600 HP

7355 Armor

50.51%dmg reduction

22.34% Defense Chance

30.32% Shield Chance

28.87% Shield Absorption

 

Basically in columi gear your looking at about 20k self buffed but i have be gathering dps gear so far cause i only tank when i have to.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Doubledeath

[Wrathoran]

im willing to try your build but i got one question. If you are meant to be tank since you take some soresu talent. Why do you take the shien stance? Are you juggling between the situation?

[GarfieldJL]

im willing to try your build but i got one question. If you are meant to be tank since you take some soresu talent. Why do you take the shien stance? Are you juggling between the situation?

 

He is trying to do both be a DPS while being able to tank if the situation calls for it and there is no tank. His build is rather similar to my build though I have some differences (and there is one skill point I want to remove but I'm not paying to respec over 1 silly point when I like where everything else is).

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#5000MZIGMRruddRRZh.1

 

Would take out the point in Zen Strike if I could do it over and throw it somewhere else. Not sure about taking out narrowed focus cause it is helpful.

 

I've actually found plasma brand to be more damaging than Overhead Strike in certain instances.

 

Since I'm more DPS oriented than he is, I actually put some points in focus for a minor crit boost.

Edited February 19, 2012 by GarfieldJL

[Doubledeath]

yes i am switching between the 2 as well as carrying 2 sets of gear with me at all times like the post above says i mainly want to add in a lot of DPS and try to keep all my important tanking abilities so when i dps im in **shien** and dps gear, and when im tanking im in sorensu form and in tank gear i used to never worry that much about my focus as a tank because i rarely did dmg anyways but this build requires a lot of force jump to make blade storm free and using sweep a lot as well as stacking overhead slash and plasmabrand for crit on blade storm its very useful for tanking because of the additional dmg i can do. i do have to be more careful because i don't get warding call or the +defense from parry but it rly haunt made much difference even when tanking NM OPS its all about your gear. Edited February 19, 2012 by Doubledeath

[GarfieldJL]

yes i am switching between the 2 as well as carrying 2 sets of gear with me at all times like the post above says i mainly want to add in a lot of DPS and try to keep all my important tanking abilities so when i dps im in shii-co and dps gear, and when im tanking im in sorensu form and in tank gear i used to never worry that much about my focus as a tank because i rarely did dmg anyways but this build requires a lot of force jump to make blade storm free and using sweep a lot as well as stacking overhead slash and plasmabrand for crit on blade storm its very useful for tanking because of the additional dmg i can do. i do have to be more careful because i don't get warding call or the +defense from parry but it rly haunt made much difference even when tanking NM OPS its all about your gear.

 

I actually haven't used shii cho in a long while.

 

I alternate between Shien and Sorseu.

[Doubledeath]

I actually haven't used shii cho in a long while.

 

I alternate between Shien and Sorseu.

 

yah meant shien i went back and changed both posts sorry for being confusing