"Advanced Classes = Fundamentally Different Class Designs"

[aznthecapn]

I think you might want to learn how to read

 

Cool your jets. I misread your post. It was an accident.

 

If comments like mine get you this hot and bothered, maybe you need to take a forum time out.

[Maltra]

So what you agree with my suggestion now that you actually read it? Edited March 12, 2012 by Maltra

[Maltra]

I'm okay with that. Not sure it would solve any issues but if you have both then swapping them doesn't seem like a major issue. Assuming that, if you deleted one, you'd lose the ability to swap the other.

 

Why? The person had both acs to 50 at some point, legacy achievement done, feature unlocked. Why making them waste a char slot, they wasted enough time leveling a second 50 to access the ac swapping feature for their main char.

 

I don't mind keeping the second 50, as i don't plan to have 8 active 50s on the same server, but what difference would it make if i deleted it really? I would only just use my first char and swap ac with it, why should i be forced to keep the second char too if i don't want it? Sounds like a useless rule to me.. I'm just curious, why should features in your opnion be as annoying as possible for the players for no reason whatsoever? It's like asians wanting their mmos to be as painful as possible with ridiculous senseless penalties, insane farming, little rewards for huge timesinks... ever considered going to play one of those? I sense it might be your true calling.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Maltra

[aznthecapn]

Why? The person had both acs to 50 at some point, legacy achievement done, feature unlocked. Why making them waste a char slot, they wasted enough time leveling a second 50 to access the ac swapping feature for their main char.

 

Because being able to switch is derived from having both. If one goes away, the ability to switch should as well. Also because it would be a cheap workaround to having AC changing. I don't have a problem with it so long as you have both characters.

 

 

It's like asians wanting their mmos to be as painful as possible with ridiculous senseless penalties, insane farming, little rewards for huge timesinks... ever considered going to play one of those? I sense it might be your true calling.

 

Class restrictions aren't senseless penalties. If you want a game you can do and be everything in, there are a number of single player games I can recommend. I'm playing Kingdoms of Amalur right now and you can literally do everything by visiting a fateweaver in that game. Go play that.

[CorellianWannabe]

People jump ship on specs faster than investors bailed on AIG. Most of the time its unwarranted because changes are balance issues, not out and out nerfing. Whole classes won't see that level of change - or at least shouldn't if Bioware is doing it right - therefore jumping ship to a new class would unnecessary. The comment about dieing is a response to people who say they "don't have time to roll a new class" when they do, they just don't want to put in the time necessary to do it (2-3 weeks if you're diligent and it really matters to you).

 

 

 

Because there are degrees of good choices. Choices that keep you within a given playstyle but subtly alter how you approach it are what specs do. This means spec changing isn't so dramatic a shift. SWTOR is designed that way. A choice that substantially changes how you play your character (a class change) isn't in this game.

 

Diablo 2 wasn't an MMO. It was a single player game with online play.

 

Really? It was massive, multiplayer, a game, and you played a role. What about the definition doesn't apply?

 

So spamming lightning and spamming heals are the same? Hell for that matter all healing is the same? No super single-target heals for one class, super area heals for another, and buffed HoTs for the third? Would that be too hard to balance? Instead all 3 healers play the same? Honestly asking as I haven't leveled all 3.

 

I still don't see how advanced spec changing breaks the game but Chiss Troopers with Force Choke won't. Again, if you don't like it don't use it-if people feel an advanced spec is broken to the point of switching it then that tells Bioware what they need to fix.

 

The Knight/Warrior classes are the two that are far too similar in my mind. Trooper/Bounty Hunter, Inquisitor/Consular and Smuggler/Agent classes shift pretty significantly (close/mid range combat vs. ranged). I'd prefer Bioware alter the Warrior/Knight class design so they are more different than they are right now.

 

So they failed on 1/4 of the classes then? 75% is only a C according to most grade scales I've seen-hell it might only be a D.

[Maltra]

Because being able to switch is derived from having both. If one goes away, the ability to switch should as well. Also because it would be a cheap workaround to having AC changing. I don't have a problem with it so long as you have both characters.

 

 

 

 

Class restrictions aren't senseless penalties. If you want a game you can do and be everything in, there are a number of single player games I can recommend. I'm playing Kingdoms of Amalur right now and you can literally do everything by visiting a fateweaver in that game. Go play that.

 

If a player had both acs at 50 at any given time, why should he be required to keep both characters in order to switch? He wasted the time to level both acs to 50, which according to several of your replies in this very thread is what's important for the game's "longevity", he unlocked the feature, there's no need for him to keep both. He's never using one of those characters anyway. If he wants to delete one it's his choice. What difference does it make except wasting a slot?

 

None. It wouldn't really affect the gameplay in any way.

 

Would you sleep better at night knowing people are forced to keep a character they never use? What difference does it make to you, i mean, really?

Edited March 12, 2012 by Maltra

[aznthecapn]

Really? It was massive, multiplayer, a game, and you played a role. What about the definition doesn't apply?

 

Because it wasn't an MMO. Separating the terms to define something results in an inaccurate definition. Football is massive, multiplayer, a game and you play a role (in that game its called a "position"). Does that make it an MMO? No.

 

So spamming lightning and spamming heals are the same? Hell for that matter all healing is the same? No super single-target heals for one class, super area heals for another, and buffed HoTs for the third? Would that be too hard to balance? Instead all 3 healers play the same? Honestly asking as I haven't leveled all 3.

 

When you get very, very detailed, the differences seem more significant than they are. I'm talking about the difference between a melee/stealth class and a ranged DPS. An assassin plays very differently from a sorcerer. In SWTOR, the game is designed with this intent, regardless of how WoW chose to develop their game.

 

I still don't see how advanced spec changing breaks the game but Chiss Troopers with Force Choke won't.

 

You're putting words into my mouth. I never said anything about Chiss troopers. I think its asinine that Bioware is giving a race that is clearly dedicated to the Empire to the Republic just as a "perk" to keep grinding beyond level 50. I also don't like the Heroic Moment skill sharing thing either. If a Trooper is born with no Force sensitivity, how could he use Force lightning just because his half-brother Assassin can? It makes no sense. Its blindly throwing darts at a board for ideas and saying "yup, put it in the game - anything to keep people playing."

 

Come to think of it, I find it odd that they would implement that before AC switching.

 

Kinda dumb.

 

So they failed on 1/4 of the classes then? 75% is only a C according to most grade scales I've seen-hell it might only be a D.

 

Not sure how this is relevant.

[aznthecapn]

Would you sleep better at night knowing people are forced to keep a character they never use? What difference does it make to you, i mean, really?

 

By virtue of having two characters at 50 you can change ACs. I don't really see the point of allowing it in that situation since its purely used as a work around to having dual AC.

 

Level a Sage to 50.

Level a Shadow to 50.

Unlock AC switching.

Delete Shadow.

Switch AC with Sage at your leisure.

 

You're basically offering to level a character for a few weeks in exchange for the right to change the AC of your main when you get there. Why do you need to be able to do that if you have both ACs at 50?

 

Thanks for helping me work that out. I now realize I don't agree with it!

[CorellianWannabe]

You go 50 levels learning how to dps with a certain character. You are good at that role. Suddenly, at 50, you are a healer. You have no idea the best ways to do things. However, as group leader, I see a 50 healer, and we need one. Do you have any idea how many times I have been burned in a group on other games because of this? Or just about any other exchange? I vote no because most people will not research their new skills to find out the best combos. I want to at least believe that the 50 healer I just brought in has a freaking clue how to play the class.

 

And this happens now with respecs, and will be worse when dual spec is added. I assume you feel that talent points should be locked in so players learn how to heal from 10-50?

[Maltra]

By virtue of having two characters at 50 you can change ACs. I don't really see the point of allowing it in that situation since its purely used as a work around to having dual AC.

 

Level a Sage to 50.

Level a Shadow to 50.

Unlock AC switching.

Delete Shadow.

Switch AC with Sage at your leisure.

 

You're basically offering to level a character for a few weeks in exchange for the right to change the AC of your main when you get there. Why do you need to be able to do that if you have both ACs at 50?

 

Thanks for helping me work that out. I now realize I don't agree with it!

 

Because i prefer to focus and use only one character and don't want to play two, that's why.

 

And since your main reason for not wanting ac switching throughout these months has been that according to you "people having to roll different chars to play the different ac offers more replay value than simply switching" i said wahtever ok, even if i think it's dumb as hell, i'll level the other ac and enjoy the "fabulous" fake replay value, then i can go back to my main and just use that and switch as i please, what's the problem with this? I can't possibly see ANY valid gameplay/mechanic problem really.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Maltra

[CorellianWannabe]

Because it wasn't an MMO. Separating the terms to define something results in an inaccurate definition. Football is massive, multiplayer, a game and you play a role (in that game its called a "position"). Does that make it an MMO? No.

 

If I played football online then yes it would be an MMO.

 

What does MMORPG mean then? Leveling? Gear Progression? Playing with others? Story? Diablo has all of that.

 

 

You're putting words into my mouth. I never said anything about Chiss troopers. I think its asinine that Bioware is giving a race that is clearly dedicated to the Empire to the Republic just as a "perk" to keep grinding beyond level 50. I also don't like the Heroic Moment skill sharing thing either. If a Trooper is born with no Force sensitivity, how could he use Force lightning just because his half-brother Assassin can? It makes no sense. Its blindly throwing darts at a board for ideas and saying "yup, put it in the game - anything to keep people playing."

 

Come to think of it, I find it odd that they would implement that before AC switching.

 

Kinda dumb.

 

I just don't see how the game could get much more broken after this Legacy mess. I could see this sort of desperation after steep declines in subscription numbers, but after 4 months when numbers are supposedly holding steady at 1.5 million or so? Is there really nothing to do at 50 (haven't gotten there myself)?

 

 

 

Not sure how this is relevant.

 

Barely getting a passing grade in class design isn't relevant to why people might want the option to change those classes?

[MajikMyst]

In World of Warcraft every class has its own set of quests, as you well know, having flexed your WoW bona fides repeatedly and at length in this very thread..

 

WOW wasn't organized by class.. It was organized by race.. So no.. Not every class in WOW had it's on quests.. In fact no class in WOW has it's own quests or content.. In fact, no MMO in existence has quests and content for every class..

 

Class is not a factor when designing quests.. SWTOR is the only game in which classes have their own story and content.. The fact that AC's share these stories and content is doesn't mean that the AC is not a class in their own right..

 

No class in WOW had a story at all.. There was no Warlock story, no Mage story, no Priest story, no druid story, no warrior story, no rogue story, no shaman, and most certianly no Paladin story.. If I missed a class or two, I am sorry.. Been almost a year since I last played.. In either case, story or lack their of, has no bearing on what a class is or isn't..

 

Baby areas in WOW were organized by race.. SWTOR, baby areas are organized by class.. All Jedi types start on Tython.. Smuggler and Trooper types start on Ord Mantel.. Same is true for the Empire.. All Sith types start on Korriban, and Bounty hunters and Agents start on Hutta I believe.. It doesn't matter what race your character is.. Your starting planet is determined by class.. Where as WOW your starting area was determined by race.. Blood Elves started in a different area as the Undead, or the Orcs, or the Trolls, and of course the Tauren.. Same was true for the Alliance.. Before Cata it is worth mentioning that Trolls and Orcs did share a baby area.. As did Dwarves and Gnomes.. After Cata.. Trolls and Gnomes were given their own baby area..

 

So.. I am sorry.. Your claim is simply false..

Edited March 12, 2012 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

I just don't see how the game could get much more broken after this Legacy mess. I could see this sort of desperation after steep declines in subscription numbers, but after 4 months when numbers are supposedly holding steady at 1.5 million or so? Is there really nothing to do at 50 (haven't gotten there myself)?

 

What legacy mess?? It hasn't even been released yet and it has been hinted at since before launch.. The legacy tab was added before the game was released.. It was there for like 3 or 4 builds of the beta..

 

If the game is broken to you, then why play it?? Why argue to break it for the rest of us.. There should be no class changes.. Period.. There is no arguement for them.. There is no need for them.. There are 16 classes in this game.. You can argue that point all you want.. But that is how it is..

 

You can't make up standards on your own in attempt to justify your views and opinions.. If you want to believe the AC's are not classes.. Then that is your choice.. That doesn't make it so, nor does it mean that Bioware should allow class changes.. Nor should they reconsider that position..

 

When are the pro AC swapping crowed just going to be honest about what they are asking for and why.. The only reason to argue that the AC is not a class is because a simple respec is a lot easier to argue for compared to a class change.. That is what you wall want.. You want to change classes..

 

This game doesn't have a class that can both spec heals or tank, and that just burns you all up.. No do it all classes.. Now you actually have to roll an alt to have all your bases covered.. Oh well.. That is what playing an MMO is all about.. You want both a tank and a healer.. You are going to have to roll two characters.. As it should be..

Edited March 12, 2012 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

Barely getting a passing grade in class design isn't relevant to why people might want the option to change those classes?

 

That is your opinion.. Most people don't share it, nor do they want the option to change classes..

 

Feel free to look at this thread if you don't believe me.. There are countless others that you can look at as well.. It takes one person to make a thread.. That doesn't mean anyone agrees with him.. Even in the last few pages.. I see more people arguing against AC swapping than for..

[chaosdefined]

WOW wasn't organized by class.. It was organized by race.. So no.. Not every class in WOW had it's on quests.. In fact no class in WOW has it's own quests or content.. In fact, no MMO in existence has quests and content for every class..

 

It's at this point that I'm positive you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Also:

 

All of the oceans on our planet are filled with salt water.. Why complain about the fact they are filled with salt water?? So why are people complaining about repeating quests over again..

 

Did anyone else have a '***?' moment reading this quote?

 

 

That is your opinion.. Most people don't share it, nor do they want the option to change classes.. [Citation Needed]

 

Fixed that for you.

Edited March 12, 2012 by chaosdefined

[aznthecapn]

If I played football online then yes it would be an MMO.

 

What does MMORPG mean then? Leveling? Gear Progression? Playing with others? Story? Diablo has all of that.

 

 

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet, and usually feature at least one persistent world.

 

As a genre, Madden 12 or Diablo 2 are not MMO games as it applies as a shortened form of MMORPG. If you have merely been using it as an acronym for any game featuring a large number of players that is played online then you have been using it out of context. Either way, none of the aforementioned games are MMORPGs (or MMO as I have been using the term).

 

I just don't see how the game could get much more broken after this Legacy mess. I could see this sort of desperation after steep declines in subscription numbers, but after 4 months when numbers are supposedly holding steady at 1.5 million or so? Is there really nothing to do at 50 (haven't gotten there myself)?

 

The Legacy additions they're throwing in are absurd at best. On this we can agree.

 

Should it continue, I don't see how allowing class changes can break the game any more.

 

Barely getting a passing grade in class design isn't relevant to why people might want the option to change those classes?

 

You can't assume pass/fail on all classes. Don't grade it like multiple choice - grade it like an essay. There are positive and negative elements of those four classes, gray areas to grade.

[aznthecapn]

In fact no class in WOW has it's own quests or content..

 

Actually, Hunters and priests had a class quest line in which they earned epic weapons through Molten Core. Currently rogues have a questline through which they earn legendary daggers from Dragon Soul. Nothing on the scale of SWTOR and its class stories, but yes - WoW did design some content exclusively for certain classes.

 

What legacy mess?? It hasn't even been released yet and it has been hinted at since before launch..

 

If you look at what is on the PTR for 1.2 (and that has been announced as releasing this month and which already has a game footage promotional trailer) you'll see some of the trainwreck features they're adding to the Legacy system. This includes allowing a character to use skills of an alt class during their Heroic Moment skill as well as leveling any race to 50 and unlocking the ability to use that race to create any class on any faction. Most stuff isn't so bad (I like the family tree stuff they're adding) but those two items have the potential to leap some significant canonical hurdles and not get tested for HGH.

 

 

None of this is tied into my opinion about class changing, just some clarifications.

[Autorch]

If I played football online then yes it would be an MMO.

 

What does MMORPG mean then? Leveling? Gear Progression? Playing with others? Story? Diablo has all of that.

 

Corellian,

 

I’m afraid you’re erring here. The definition of MMORPG is a consensus one--it’s not the literal translation of what the acronym stands for, which is what you’re trying to make fit.

 

An MMO features a persistent online world. It doesn’t instantiate per group or play session; it continues to run whether players are there or not.

 

In a Diablo group, that instance of the playspace exists only while the group playing it does. Same thing with football, Call of Duty, or any other game that multiple people can play online.

 

See, these types of games are “Massive” not because of the total number of people playing the game itself. These games are Massive because a large amount of players are in the same instantiated and running copy of it which persists beyond their participation in it, you follow?

 

If you keep that definition in mind you’ll correctly separate the nature of games like Diablo from games like SWTOR.

[Autorch]

This is my single biggest issue with the game. In WoW, I could choose where I wanted to go through most of my leveling. When I hit level 10 on my human, I could go to Darkshore, Westfall or Loch Modan. There's a lot of different things to experience as you level. Even towards the end of the 60s I could choose from EPL or Winterspring. This choice was reduced dramatically in expansions, however.

 

I can legitimately see myself changing my mind one day down the road because of this. For now, however, I'm enjoying the gameplay difference in my alts and exploring different choices despite how similar the storyline is.

 

This, and your summation of the initial WoW leveling situation, I couldn’t agree more with. This has been my journey of thought as well, and why I’m now here weighting the pro-AC respec camp under the belief that it might be good for the game. Hopefully that has come through in my previous writings. I may have been…impolitic about it.

 

I can easily imagine a structure that would support this kind of nonlinear leveling in SWTOR, but there’s no getting around having to put in a ****ton of new content. Like parallel-level planets, such that you could go from level 10-20 on either planet as you wished.

 

Or completely separated maps on the same planet, and you can only get from one to the other via taxi. The quest hubs in each map would then be self-contained, requiring no crossover into the other map to complete, and each map would have a through-line quest like the current maps each do, which is optional for you to do or not. So you can pick from map A and map B through your journey from 10-20, and so forth, ignoring the through-line quest on that map or not.

 

All of that is really no different than WoW’s having of parallel-level zones that you could pick and choose from, as you pointed out.

[Autorch]

WOW wasn't organized by class.. It was organized by race.. So no.. Not every class in WOW had it's on quests.. In fact no class in WOW has it's own quests or content.. In fact, no MMO in existence has quests and content for every class..

 

Class is not a factor when designing quests.. SWTOR is the only game in which classes have their own story and content.. The fact that AC's share these stories and content is doesn't mean that the AC is not a class in their own right..

 

No class in WOW had a story at all.. There was no Warlock story, no Mage story, no Priest story, no druid story, no warrior story, no rogue story, no shaman, and most certianly no Paladin story.. If I missed a class or two, I am sorry.. Been almost a year since I last played.. In either case, story or lack their of, has no bearing on what a class is or isn't..

 

Baby areas in WOW were organized by race.. SWTOR, baby areas are organized by class.. All Jedi types start on Tython.. Smuggler and Trooper types start on Ord Mantel.. Same is true for the Empire.. All Sith types start on Korriban, and Bounty hunters and Agents start on Hutta I believe.. It doesn't matter what race your character is.. Your starting planet is determined by class.. Where as WOW your starting area was determined by race.. Blood Elves started in a different area as the Undead, or the Orcs, or the Trolls, and of course the Tauren.. Same was true for the Alliance.. Before Cata it is worth mentioning that Trolls and Orcs did share a baby area.. As did Dwarves and Gnomes.. After Cata.. Trolls and Gnomes were given their own baby area..

 

So.. I am sorry.. Your claim is simply false..

 

No, my claim is not false. Every class in WoW has content which only they experience. As I said, and you didn’t apparently understand, the WoW class-specific content set is small and has diminished since release, but it most definitely still exists. I am, “in fact”, about to prove it.

 

Every single class in WoW has class-specific quests; there are even profession-specific quests. If you’ve ever seen the yellow ! appear over the head of the class trainer, you were being offered a class-specific quest. Any time that you opened your quest log and saw on the left a node that said your class name, like “Druid”, with quests underneath it, those were the class-specific quests.

 

Every class had them. Whether it was the Druid going to Moonglade, the Warrior forging his first rare blade, the Rogue getting poisons, the Warlock acquiring the Voidwalker, the Paladin learning to resurrect, the Mage learning a new Polymorph variant…and so on and so forth (the worst were the epic mount quests for those classes that had them. They were cool quests, but after my 10th assist to players who needed them, I was kind of done).

 

They got rid of a lot of this, but some class-specific content still exists in the leveling process, post-Cataclysm. All classes still have class specific content; it is undeniably still true and you are undeniably still wrong; even if it were all currently gone, it was there, and that’s enough to invalidate your point, not that it needed much help.

 

I mean, please feel free to continue to deny it; reality does not appear to present much of an obstacle for you. It’s kind of admirable, in a demented sort of a way.

 

Still don’t believe me? Go to wowhead.com. On the main menu bar, drop down from Database-->Classes-->[Any class]. On the resulting page, click the Quests tab. You have now drilled down to the class-specific quest content. Here’s a direct link for you to Mage specific class content: http://www.wowhead.com/class=8#quests

 

Not belief, not an opinion. Objectively true, proof provided, MajikMyst pwnd, check and mate, game set and match, thank you for playing, have a nice day. You used the phrase “in fact” twice in your reality-denying summation. I’m not sure you understand what a fact actually is.

 

A troll generally wouldn’t admit to being wrong; thus I don’t expect you to. I believe I can predict your probable response: “That’s not what I meant! Those are so trivial they don’t count! They’re not the story! They aren’t a story! And classes aren’t defined by stories or content anyway!” or some variant on that, except double-punctuated and misspelled. Followed by even more poorly written gyrations, completely irrelevant spew, and redefinitions of the issue under discussion.

 

Seriously, your underlying thinking is as poor as the spelling and grammar you’re using to communicate it. It’s funny how those two things go hand-in-hand so much of the time.

 

Where you’re misrepresenting, either deliberately or because you’re unable to process anything higher than a mild level of complexity: You appear to have invented, completely on your own, a requirement that unique class content must somehow mean ALL and ONLY the content that the class experiences, and that to have unique class content is also tied to the way that the game is organized. You also imply that any unique class content anywhere has to be in the form of a story, and are apparently arguing a further nonexistent point that classes are defined by stories, and so on.

 

None of those are true. None of them are what I said. And none of them apply to SWTOR.

 

Again, (and I tried to give you an out in my last reply to you): these zig-zagging misrepresentations are straw men. They also make you look dumb and dishonest without my even having to respond to them. When the anti-respec camp has friends like you, it hardly needs enemies.

 

People aren’t responding to you because you’re conclusively proving your points—people aren’t responding to you because you’re not actually responding to them: Your modus operandi is mostly to fabricate one side of a debate by cherry-picking some parts and completely misrepresenting others, and then you write multiple posts responding to these fictions you appear to have created in your mind. Ad nauseum.

 

I’d like to gently suggest that you go have these arguments with yourself, entirely on your own, without subjecting the rest of us to it. You are contributing nothing.

 

To recap, the only rebuttal that you’ve been able to make to my last responses was a fantastical misrepresentation. I then disproved it. The rest of my responses you conveniently ignored, presumably because it wouldn’t support this right-all-the-time persona you’re trying to push at every opportunity.

 

Please stop wasting my bandwidth with kindergarten-level processing, MajikMyst. You’re either way out of your depth here--kiddie pool that this discussion is--or you’re deliberately trolling. You’re making ridiculous and nonsensical arguments and ignoring legitimate responses, just to be able to keep spewing about it. Do you think that nobody else sees that?

 

I’m inclined to believe that you’re simply intentionally trolling for attention. One hardly even needs to respond; each successive post is like the publication of a pathology. A few posts back I noted that I’d observed that the defenders of no-respec seem to me to more regularly employ bad argumentative tactics. You’re far and away the worst offender.

[CorellianWannabe]

aznthecapn, I have one question. I found this post.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siphaed

Duel Spec is NOT needed.

 

 

I'm a healer, I run as a healer throughout my carrier (as evil as that may be). I heal my companions in solo content, heal myself and teammates in both group and PvP content. There's nothing I cannot do as a healer.

 

IF I want to learn another specification, I'll do so at the cost of paying for a respec.

 

 

 

However, to ask for a duel-spec is like asking for both the steak & salmon at a restaurant but for one price. It's not going to happen, you're going to have to pay twice as much for both of them, and you're going to get full rather fast.

 

 

 

If you decide to play one way, play that one way, if you decide to play another, play that other way. Just don't ask to do everything all the time, mixed together.

 

Your reply-

 

That's a terrible analogy.

 

If YOU don't want respec, then don't pay for it when its implemented. I, however, do what it and I will purchase it. Doesn't affect you at all.

 

 

 

How is this any different from advanced spec switching? It doesn't affect you at all. How do you reconcile this apparent dilemma?

[chaosdefined]

Nicely found! Edited March 15, 2012 by Notannos
rude

[Vankris]

Multiple Spec for the same advanced class: Yes, that can work. tou can make it as easy as in wow (just a 10 secondes cast anywhere in the world) or make some barrier like

- require reagent

- limited time per day

- require you to be in the fleet

 

there are other solution as well like, lowering respec cost, or have it cost a farmable reagent instead of credit.

 

 

Change Advanced class: No, like bioware i see them exactly as different class. Even wow, the most casual of casual game didn't do, for a reason.

 

if you want another trroper, just bite the bullet and make another one. But i con't believe you went all the way to 50, suddenly realize you don't like the game play.

[chaosdefined]

Multiple Spec for the same advanced class: Yes, that can work. tou can make it as easy as in wow (just a 10 secondes cast anywhere in the world) or make some barrier like

- require reagent

- limited time per day

- require you to be in the fleet

 

there are other solution as well like, lowering respec cost, or have it cost a farmable reagent instead of credit.

 

 

Change Advanced class: No, like bioware i see them exactly as different class. Even wow, the most casual of casual game didn't do, for a reason.

 

if you want another trroper, just bite the bullet and make another one. But i con't believe you went all the way to 50, suddenly realize you don't like the game play.

 

Have you read anything in this thread?

 

We've already covered the fact that saying they are seperate classes is invalid because they still share the majority of the base stats and abilities. AC's are not like a Paladin and a Mage, they're just glorified specs like a Ret Paladin and a Holy Paladin.

 

We've already covered that people don't really get a feel for their AC until around level 25-30 at which point they're not willing to put in another few weeks of time on repeating the exact same content and so will just leave the game.

Edited March 15, 2012 by chaosdefined

[MajikMyst]

Have you read anything in this thread?

 

We've already covered the fact that saying they are seperate classes is invalid because they still share the majority of the base stats and abilities. AC's are not like a Paladin and a Mage, they're just glorified specs like a Ret Paladin and a Holy Paladin.

 

No but they are like a mage and a warlock.. It is irrelevent that they share base stats and or abilities.. They are seperate classes.. That is all there is to it.. Just like a mage and a warlock.. Which wear the same gear, share ALL the same stats, both use mana, both are ranged DPS, both use the same stradegy to play.. About the only noticable difference between the two.. One has pets and one has metamorph..

 

Let's also not forget that even WOW didn't allow class changes.. There is no reason that Bioware should either..

 

As for the question above?? If the two of you don't understand what the difference is between switching specs in a talent tree and switching your class.. Then no response from Azn or anyone else is going to change that..

Edited March 15, 2012 by MajikMyst