Do people realise this is a new game?

[Shingara]

well... I invite you to actually look at what is running under BioWare's umbrella (and thereby under EA's):

 

There is a 'little' game called Dark Age of Camelot.

 

Since EA purchase Mythic in the summer of 2006 we have seen a strong start with WAR (and the following crash of it) and a steady fall in subscribers to DAoC.

 

Since EA merged Mythic into the BioWare group in the summer of 2009, WAR has pretty much turned into a F2P game (with WoH actually being f2p) and DAoC's subscription number (supposedly) being as low as 5,000 (July 2011).

 

Now, why have neither BioWare nor EA closed down Mythic? They are not working on new projects (as far as I'm aware), very little money (relatively speaking) is actually generated by WAR and DAoC thru subscriptions...

 

is it because the Warhammer IP thru WoH just went beta and EA is hoping for big money thru WoH's item store?

 

Wouldn't really give them a reason to keep DAoC alive (and actually rather well taken care of, thank you!)...

 

So, is it maybe because DAoC is a prestige game?

 

But 'prestige' doesn't really reflect into EA's corporate books... does it?

 

They could probably have gone f2p with it by now, which rather likely would draw quite a crowd (I'd imagine close to what L2 saw when they went f2p, potentially even more), but they didn't... is it because the numbers have (supposedly) gone up again? Somehow I doubt that... (not the rise in numbers but that the numbers make DAoC a strong competitor in the p2p market)

 

so, sometimes numbers aren't all that matters...

 

They dont need to close down mythic, its cost them no more as it is bioware and that when mythic was bought it was reduced in the workforce at mythic. and whilst product is live it retains license, whilst it has license the ip belongs to them, same for digital property rights, they have devs they can call on todo work and other teams to share work loads and to outsource to. not just for swtor but for other projects under the ea banner.

 

 

And alot is said about EA but they do like there game houses that fall under them unlike activision /shudder.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Shingara

[knightblaster]

well... I invite you to actually look at what is running under BioWare's umbrella (and thereby under EA's):

 

There is a 'little' game called Dark Age of Camelot.

 

Since EA purchase Mythic in the summer of 2006 we have seen a strong start with WAR (and the following crash of it) and a steady fall in subscribers to DAoC.

 

Since EA merged Mythic into the BioWare group in the summer of 2009, WAR has pretty much turned into a F2P game (with WoH actually being f2p) and DAoC's subscription number (supposedly) being as low as 5,000 (July 2011).

 

Now, why have neither BioWare nor EA closed down Mythic? They are not working on new projects (as far as I'm aware), very little money (relatively speaking) is actually generated by WAR and DAoC thru subscriptions...

 

is it because the Warhammer IP thru WoH just went beta and EA is hoping for big money thru WoH's item store?

 

Wouldn't really give them a reason to keep DAoC alive (and actually rather well taken care of, thank you!)...

 

So, is it maybe because DAoC is a prestige game?

 

But 'prestige' doesn't really reflect into EA's corporate books... does it?

 

They could probably have gone f2p with it by now, which rather likely would draw quite a crowd (I'd imagine close to what L2 saw when they went f2p, potentially even more), but they didn't... is it because the numbers have (supposedly) gone up again? Somehow I doubt that... (not the rise in numbers but that the numbers make DAoC a strong competitor in the p2p market)

 

so, sometimes numbers aren't all that matters...

 

I'm not saying they are going to shut things down, but if you think EA are "happy" with what happened with WAR, guess again. Or, rather, go and ask Mark Jacobs.

 

It's cheap to keep an MMO open with a few servers -- the $15 exceeds server costs and includes a nice profit. At the same time, however, this in no way resembles what EA had hoped and expected for WAR. At the current time, what is happening with EA and Warhammer is a salvage operation in light of the failure of WAR to become what EA clearly wanted it to be (the PvP-centric alternative to WoW).

 

The finances don't change much. It is one thing to keep a game "open" with a server or two as long as the few thousand playing are still paying -- it's cheap at that scale and makes sense as long as it is marginally proiftable, as this is all catch-up revenue. It's quite another thing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars developing a game with this as the GOAL. The latter makes no sense at all to a company the scale of EA, and it's why we won't see them developing/financing MMOs with this goal any time soon. Sure, they will keep the servers open as long as it is profitable to do so -- heck, SWG was just closed in December, and probably had a few thousand players. But that's completely different from having a game designed to cater to the few -- that isn't going to happen. They may end up "settling" for the few in terms of where the game eventually ends up, with some bitterness about the hundreds of millions spend that they will never recoup, but it will never be the plan out of the gate to design a game to "settle for" a niche market -- not from a AAA developer.

 

We can, however, hope that more indie developers step in and make games designed for specific niches. They won't be games that have hundreds of millions of development cost, however, and all the gaming "bling" that goes with that.

[Tic-]

Wow, so you were able to name 3 (three!) games out of 500+ games (over at MMORPG.com) that according to you 'step outside the box some'?

 

I'm impressed... not!

 

And before you tell me to look for myself and find games over at MMORPG.com that 'step outside the box some', guess what: I don't have to... I can just stay here in this very same forum and name one: SWTOR... because there are no Elves and Orcs in it!

 

So, next time, better be prepared to back up your claim!

 

Naw, i chose to just list the ones i currently play. I don't think it would be fair to name ones that i don't, as i don't have enough information on them.

 

Plus three (3!), would qualify as "others", would it not? So i would think my claim is fairly backed up.

 

Though I'm pretty certain, that if you really want to live on the MMO edge, you could even find a few more there without elves and orcs, i mean, if thats all it takes for you to be impressed.

 

Good luck!

Edited February 12, 2012 by Tic-

[Aisar]

The problem with TOR is WoW did it all way better at Launch and currently is on a whole different level. This game could be 5 years old, would not change the bad design choices and poor skillz.

[Shingara]

The problem with TOR is WoW did it all way better at Launch and currently is on a whole different level. This game could be 5 years old, would not change the bad design choices and poor skillz.

 

This person wasnt at wows launch obviously.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Shingara

[Aisar]

This person wasnt at was launch obviously.

 

Actually I started on Dec 15 and was on 24/7. With WoW as well. My life is MMOs so take it from me, this game is a stinky dud.

[Shingara]

Actually I started on Dec 15 and was on 24/7. With WoW as well. My life is MMOs so take it from me, this game is a stinky dud.

 

Really, so tell me what was missing in wow at launch and what was the major bugs in wow and what was the major problem with people not able to play.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Shingara

[Aisar]

Really, so tell me what was missing in wow at launch and what was the major nugs in wow and what was the major problem with people not able to play.

 

You realize WoW is like 8 years old right and you are asking me to talk about it at Launch?

 

How about Open Beta? Would that be better?

[Shingara]

You realize WoW is like 8 years old right and you are asking me to talk about it at Launch?

 

How about Open Beta? Would that be better?

 

No im asking you what was in at launch on wow that was in development for 5 years and the major problems that effected wow.

 

Simple question, was there pvp etc etc etc. aparently you were there at launch, i was there at eu launch which was a few months after the us release and the problems were still there and i remember them well.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Shingara

[Astron_]

This person wasnt at wows launch obviously.

 

I was, and I agree with him. SW:ToR is a broken mess compared to what WoW was at launch.

[Shingara]

I was, and I agree with him. SW:ToR is a broken mess compared to what WoW was at launch.

 

LoL ye right, i can log onto these servers without a 6 hour q and dont get dced after 15 seconds that was one of the main problems well known with wow.

[PjPablo]

Really, so tell me what was missing in wow at launch and what was the major bugs in wow and what was the major problem with people not able to play.

 

Server stability was the biggest issue. They hadn't planned well for the large number of subs they got. Some servers were very unstable and had a lot of downtime.

 

That said I have played the game since Day 1. Even at launch the game was more engrossing then TOR. WOW had more of a 'soul', more of a hook at launch than TOR does. Both had bugs, yes. WOW was not bug-free by any stretch of the imagination. It was simply a better game, as evidenced by how successful it became despite the bugs. I am not sure TOR will be able to achieve even a semblance of the success WOW did. The game itself is 'sterile'.

[Astron_]

LoL ye right, i can log onto these servers without a 6 hour q and dont get dced after 15 seconds that was one of the main problems well known with wow.

 

Yes, becuase the server-issues the first weeks have got everything to do with the game itself, right?

 

 

/facepalm

[Shingara]

Server stability was the biggest issue. They hadn't planned well for the large number of subs they got. Some servers were very unstable and had a lot of downtime.

 

That said I have played the game since Day 1. Even at launch the game was more engrossing then TOR. WOW had more of a 'soul', more of a hook at launch than TOR does. Both had bugs, yes. WOW was not bug-free by any stretch of the imagination. It was simply a better game, as evidenced by how successful it became despite the bugs. I am not sure TOR will be able to achieve even a semblance of the success WOW did. The game itself is 'sterile'.

 

realy, rose tinted glasses i sense here.

[Shingara]

Yes, becuase the server-issues the first weeks have got everything to do with the game itself, right?

 

 

/facepalm

 

ow what are you joking me, if people were being constant dced for close to 2 months with insane q's im pritty sure that would be a perma death hit against tor, yet when golden child wow had it then it somehow becomes a little issue and a bug you can live with. be serious if your gonna try and take that line aye.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Shingara

[Lethality]

LoL ye right, i can log onto these servers without a 6 hour q and dont get dced after 15 seconds that was one of the main problems well known with wow.

 

Server capacity was the only issue... and they sorted that out right quick.

 

The game itself? Nearly flawless.

[PjPablo]

realy, rose tinted glasses i sense here.

 

No not at all. Numbers do not lie. WOW's success is evidence of that. Also, the fact that any game got the A.D.D. gamer in me to stick with it for 7 years says something. You can try to deny people's opinions all you want but you cannot deny that despite a rough start as far as bugs WOW grew SEVENFOLD in subs in the first 90 days. That says something about how great the game was. TOR will never see that kind of post-launch growth.

[Aisar]

No not at all. Numbers do not lie. WOW's success is evidence of that. Also, the fact that any game got the A.D.D. gamer in me to stick with it for 7 years says something. You can try to deny people's opinions all you want but you cannot deny that despite a rough start as far as bugs WOW grew SEVENFOLD in subs in the first 90 days. That says something about how great the game was. TOR will never see that kind of post-launch growth.

 

lol i have hardcore a.d.d and I played for 7 years. WoW is on a whole different level than TOR. From the environments, to the music, the pvp, it's pretty much all really good. WoW had it's problems but I was too busy having fun to remember them I guess.

[Shingara]

lol you make me laugh, what makes me laugh even more then your obvious rose tinted glasses is why are you here. seriously, tor is so bad for you so why arnt you somewhere else.

[ousooner]

Post taken from day of wows launch, lol some things never change.

 

 

 

Wow........sounds like Launch has gone to hell for Blizz.....even worse than I thought it would...damn...sad thing too. The game had alot of promise, but they over designed their game to have way to much to soon..then rebuilt half the game during the past few months....one can only hope they catch up in patches fast. As fast as the servers filled up in EQ they were opening new ones..balanced out finally now they're letting peple move around supposedly.

 

 

 

Things will get better on WoW..but how much better is my question and concern. They said and everyone was like oh their servers are so much better than this game or this game..yet they uber low cap them..sounds like a cover up. Anyway happy treading guys the game will thin out in a few days and it'll be easier for those who want to play, to be able to play.

[PjPablo]

lol you make me laugh, what makes me laugh even more then your obvious rose tinted glasses is why are you here. seriously, tor is so bad for you so why arnt you somewhere else.

 

TOR isn't a bad game. It just isn't a great one. What's a better question is why do you care what I think about TOR or anything for that matter?

[knightblaster]

Server stability was the biggest issue. They hadn't planned well for the large number of subs they got. Some servers were very unstable and had a lot of downtime.

 

That said I have played the game since Day 1. Even at launch the game was more engrossing then TOR. WOW had more of a 'soul', more of a hook at launch than TOR does. Both had bugs, yes. WOW was not bug-free by any stretch of the imagination. It was simply a better game, as evidenced by how successful it became despite the bugs. I am not sure TOR will be able to achieve even a semblance of the success WOW did. The game itself is 'sterile'.

 

What they did best was pacing and atmosphere. They got those down pat from the launch. Most of us can still remember the first time we heard the music for Ironforge or Stormwind or Orgrimmar, for example. The atmosphere was iconic, or quickly became so, and the pacing was quite good at the beginning -- things bogged down in the 40s and 50s, but by that time players are hooked ... you want the hooking to happen in the first10-15 levels, and launch vanilla WoW did that superbly, in spite of the server problems (mine went offline for 72 hours and I rerolled on a different server which then became my main).

[CharagonIGN]

I didn't expect SWTOR to have 12 tiers of end-game raiding at launch.

 

 

I DID expect them to have...

 

Balanced mirror classes

UI Customization

Target-of-target

A NOT half-assed GCD display

Macros

The ability to unlock the camera

The ability to import Key Bindings across characters

A proper appearance tab (or even basic appearance functionality)

Duel-Spec Options

and a MOTHER !@#$ING COMBAT LOG!

 

This game was launched in December. Some of these things are still coming. Others BioWare hasn't even touched on.

 

Make no mistake, we are in a paid beta.

[Goreson]

Why should I? RVR isn't the point of this thread. I can think of other games with multiple warring/allied factions, but not all implemented exactly as DAoC did it. Anarchy Online, Fallen Earth, and Ryzom all spring to my mind immediately, and I am sure there are others.

 

Shoddy/outdated design in TOR:

 

No UI customization at all.

Animations taking priority over the action queue, e.g. delayed abilities, falling off your speeder if you try to move just as the cast bar ends, etc.

GTN interface is a mess

PVP rewards system is a convoluted mess

lol Ilum

Chat box doesn't filter junk data sent to it

 

etc. etc, basically every complaint we've all heard a million times on this forum

 

 

Why shouldn't you? Because you made the claim that SWTOR has a 'shoddy/outdated design'!

 

The thing is that every single game is dancing on a very thin rope with people grabbing at the glasses on the tray it is holding...

 

Some glasses will fall, others will be dropped because somebody didn't like what's in the glass...

 

By that I mean that some features may not be in despite YOU expecting them because they are 'standard' (to you)...

 

Your examples are fine... in the sense that there are problems in those designs... but I wouldn't consider them gamebrakers for me.

 

On the other side, I would consider a good multi-faction based RvR system as something that should be standard... as it would resolve quite a chunk of those complaints we hear here on the forums 'a million times'.

 

But IF I were to consider every game that doesn't feature multi-faction RvR a fail, heck, there wouldn't be any games for me to play!

 

In short: we all have our own priorities... if we don't see them fulfilled, yes, a game may be 'shoddy and outdated' to us... but that potentially doesn't mean that it is overal true! Not if other people don't see it as a problem...

 

We have to make our own choice if we consider a game enough to keep us playing it or not... if for you that's not a given at this time, well, feel free to check again at some other time...

 

And really? Ryzom as a multi-faction example? Correct me if I'm wrong but the PvP is rather limited in Ryzom... and unless you count guilds (so player, not game designer made groups) as factions, there isn't even a real faction system in Ryzom...

AO? Yeah... 'neutral' is definitely constantly at war with both Omni and Clans...

and Fallen Earth... isn't it more like each faction has 1 (one) enemy and the rest are at best on a 'we don't really like/support you' level? *coughmulti-faction my arse if you have 2 factions opposing each other and the rest is neutralcough*

[Shingara]

TOR isn't a bad game. It just isn't a great one. What's a better question is why do you care what I think about TOR or anything for that matter?

 

Why, because your looking through rose tinted glasses on how great wow was when it never was that shiney and great at the start, it was a good mmo and im not disputing that fact but it wasnt some gold plated brilliant thing.

 

Just the fact that its a well known fact that the wow servers when it launched would blow up and die easily at launch and you and others are disputing it. WoW in the us came out when, november yet the 1st hotfix for the servers imploding didnt hit those servers till what febuary which didnt fix it till 1.4.2 was out which i remember right was 2 patches before battlegrounds were put into wow.

 

Tor has pvp, open world and open world zoned pvp ye bugged but we have it, we have great quests, we have how many flashpoints and how many operations, all with heroic settings so old flashpoints dont become useless. some say they are to easy or dont offer good enough loot, fine thats an easy fix by tuning them harder on knightmare and given them major increased rewards for a majorly increased dificulty setting.

 

We have space and we have crafting. we have tons of stuff coming into the game thats been announced and the devs have come out and said this is coming in here and this is what you shall have in this patch, this patch and this patch.

 

So yes wow was a good game but it has nothing compared to swtor when you put them launch to launch and if anything the only thing you can compare swtor to is wow at end of vannila and even then this game has more promise.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Shingara