Danjb Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 I just don't understand this and maybe I'm just to simple to ever understand it. I leveled to 50 without ever using the market once. I have maxed out crafting/gathering 2x on my main and on several alts, never used the market, never needed to. I have millions of credits and really I could care less. I use my credits to help guildies with respec / repair bills. Why is it that a market is 100% necessary for the game to function? You NEVER have to buy anything off of it to level cap, you NEVER have to buy anything to get the best gear in the game. So why are you whining and crying about it? You think my (imo) constructive post expressing a concern is me crying? Really? Just because you can play the game without engaging in the economy, doesn't mean you should have to, that's bad design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sconnoll Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm level 49 and almost always broke, crafting is a big money sink for me, i re almost everything so I lose money crafting. Also trying to save up 300k for level 3 speeder atm. The most money I have ever had was 175k. I don't know how you can complain about having too much money. If you really feel that way why not spread it around to those less fortunate than you? Or start crafting nice stuff and give away to noobs? I figure after 50 when I have everything I need i will amount a lot of money but I can always sepnd money on something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uziforyou Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Slicing already ruined the economy. I have over 10 million on 2 characters because of it and nothing to spend. During pre-launch I could have had more. Hmm, you either made that with the GTN exploit that has since been fixed or you play this game way too much and should step out of the basement to get some sunshine. Either way, not a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danjb Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 I'm level 49 and almost always broke, crafting is a big money sink for me, i re almost everything so I lose money crafting. Also trying to save up 300k for level 3 speeder atm. The most money I have ever had was 175k. I don't know how you can complain about having too much money. If you really feel that way why not spread it around to those less fortunate than you? Or start crafting nice stuff and give away to noobs? I figure after 50 when I have everything I need i will amount a lot of money but I can always sepnd money on something! Yeah, like the original post says, this is a problem at endgame, not leveling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtybomb Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 If that's the case, it's a terrible idea. A lot of players spend a lot of hours crafting, selling, monopolizing markets, etc. It is a much needed game system that will help the longevity of the game. Then I hope it is a long time before they fix it. I'd rather be sitting on a huge pile of credits and nothing to spend it on that deal with some knucklehead who buys up all of some item that I need and posts it back up at a 300% markup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleinone Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 It was absolutely designed this way. The poster who said it was probably done to limit gold farmers has a point. Its also just more "fun" to be rich. This is an ultra casual mmo, with no death penalties, obvious arrows pointing you down the corridor from quest to quest, and huge credit faucets everywhere. Everyone is supposed to be rich, its part of the "fun"' experience of this theme park. There are some sinks, like the 6 credits you pay for interstellar travel from planet to planet and back to fleet, but the faucets are everywhere. Everything you do, warzones, quests, kill a random mob, pick up mats just lying everywhere every 10 feet on the ground of every planet, literally everything is a credit faucet. It must have been designed this way, there is no other explanation. The nice thing is, there is no real need to worry about inflation, because there is nothing worth buying in the long run on the market. Its all commendation driven, or quest rewards. All good gear, for just about every level. So everyone gets to be rich multimillionaires, and no one has to worry about gold sellers or spending time credit farming, and prices on the GTN don't matter because there is nothing really worth buying. Its kinda genius from a business standpoint, but it remains to be seen how it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeaster Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 600K for the guild bank? are you serious? what is wrong with the devs here? there are so many different currencies, such a gap between regular and exclusive items and then again, so little real variation, that it is obvious to everyone that the economy in swtor is majorly flawed i am not crafting or gathering with my crew skills at all because it is a money sink i am not putting up anything into the auction house... because no one is really buying. why? money sink. i am not buying equipment & only using drops. money sink. and now with legacy: got your legacy xp points? great! now buy this new trait! seriously? another money sink? ok, great then answer me this: how the hell are we supposed to make any money??? the mission rewards are barely enough to support character leveling. crafting and selling items is a job itself. looting enemies. well, that is basically it. loot loot loot. sell. unless you are using bugged areas, there is no real way to actually make money. now, i dont know about you (yes, there are surely some people who are the exception), but anywhere you look for on the web or in these forums, people are having major problems with that. dear forum admins, dear user experience experts, dear bioware staff: the economy doesnt work. you aren't going to fix it with more items or more variation or more features either. - lower / eliminate costs for crew skills. i already have to spend creds to buy materials i need. why do you charge me for using the skills themselves??? - lower the money sinks. dont punish people for features that you developed as an add on. dont charge for the guild bank & additional traits. - you want a big money sink? well lets see, what could be expensive to maintain? how about a friggin starship??? or speeders? i can fly from coruscant to tattoine for measly 87 creds but my droid cant find some artifacts unless i spend 800creds? you see anything broken here? charge for the ship. offer some individualisation of the ship. rugs, statues, a holochess board, different compartments, new compartments - charge for that. a ship is expensive. same goes for speeders. how much do you spend on your car in a year? how much for a paintjob? don't limit speeders through levels. just make them modifiable. - also, if you want an economy going on, unbind objects. yes, i can understand it with force-imbued artifacts but what "binds" a pistol to you? why shouldn't someone be able to sell every piece of equipment, including the ships? do away with the restrictions and see what people come up with. it works perfectly in eve. it worked in star wars galexies. it can work too. right now, the ONLY thing that is holding me here (as so many others) is the storyline. at some point, that won't be enough and you will see sinking numbers. i guess that is when management will start thinking about a free to play model, ingame purchasing and... of course, even more money sinks. this sucks. bigtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakidnasty Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 You necro'd a thread to nerdrage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeaster Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 just do a quick google search for swtor and google sink... you will come up with lots of article about this issue. people have too much money? not enough money sinks. people dont have enough? too many money sinks. either way you try to regulate it, you piss people off. an mmorpg should not be a second job. players sure dont do what you expect them to. a free market and player run economy has its dangers and complications, too, but you know what: they work. so why not focus on the strengths (storytelling) and leave other aspects to the players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well, from a non-level 50 player, its next to impossible to make credits, i can't gather materials to make credits, because crafters aren't doing their job and actually crafting for the community, so they don't buy any resources for anything higher then 500-1000cr per stack of 99 for all grades, so thats not viable for profit. The only skill that was, was slicing pre-over the top nerf, because crafters were QQ'ing about not making as much credits, it made me laugh......ofcourse you wouldn't, you weren't doing your freaking job as crafter. The severe lack of gear possibilities is what hurts the game in the long run, since the rewards you get are crap and the commendation gear is rubbish, i had to stomach crafting myself to just have greens to quest in, which i discovered, the greens are better then the commendation blues of the same level. Maybe its a mistake on biowares' part, but who knows, overall, there enough money sinks in this game, there just aren't enough profit making chances in the game...until endgame.....the process from 1-50 is the money sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeaster Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 You necro'd a thread to nerdrage? take a look at the writings of cory doctorow or nick yee on that topic. faucet-drain economies dont work if they are out of balance, so you are always tinkering on one or the other end. open economies regulate themselves, but are susceptible to economic attacks in turn. so both have ups and downs, but with the former, people will always be complaining about the developers. with the latter, you generate rivalry among themselves. less "nerdrage" that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurokDarkstar Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 That's not true, you still have to buy consumables from Biotec... Oh.. Wait.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeaster Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well, from a non-level 50 player, its next to impossible to make credits, i can't gather materials to make credits, because crafters aren't doing their job and actually crafting for the community, so they don't buy any resources for anything higher then 500-1000cr per stack of 99 for all grades, so thats not viable for profit. I am lvl 37, have 200 in skills and about 100k. When I send out my droid for 800creds, he returns with sth that is worth 600. I tracked flow over the last 50 crew missions and found that I lost aroung 6K that way. The items are crafted were of no use as I found better enhancements in game through missions. So, this is clearly a money sink and does not contribute in building an economy. The only skill that was, was slicing pre-over the top nerf, because crafters were QQ'ing about not making as much credits, it made me laugh......ofcourse you wouldn't, you weren't doing your freaking job as crafter. Even though I had the game at the time, I was traveling and couldnt play. I missed out during that "goldrush". A lot of people still use the funds they were able to gain during that time. When you do nerfs like this, you aren't just eliminating the problem, but also causing an economic gap between players. Maybe its a mistake on biowares' part, but who knows, overall, there enough money sinks in this game, there just aren't enough profit making chances in the game...until endgame.....the process from 1-50 is the money sink. Which is the reason why people just rush to endgame by going through only the class storyline, then grind their way through crafting and then use all these resources to create a second character they can actually enjoy playing. I was able to make money in wow, eve, everquest, swg, aoc... i have no idea how to do that here as the sinks are so great. By now, I have become completely desinterested in crafting or the galactic trade. In our guild, we are supplying one or two people with materials and creds and they do the work because they enjoy it. The 30+ other members stopped crafting and trading alltogether. If that is any indication, it points to a major problem. It is a pity, because the crafting with crews seemed very promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargond Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well, from a non-level 50 player, its next to impossible to make credits, i can't gather materials to make credits, because crafters aren't doing their job and actually crafting for the community, so they don't buy any resources for anything higher then 500-1000cr per stack of 99 for all grades, so thats not viable for profit. The only skill that was, was slicing pre-over the top nerf, because crafters were QQ'ing about not making as much credits, it made me laugh......ofcourse you wouldn't, you weren't doing your freaking job as crafter. The severe lack of gear possibilities is what hurts the game in the long run, since the rewards you get are crap and the commendation gear is rubbish, i had to stomach crafting myself to just have greens to quest in, which i discovered, the greens are better then the commendation blues of the same level. Maybe its a mistake on biowares' part, but who knows, overall, there enough money sinks in this game, there just aren't enough profit making chances in the game...until endgame.....the process from 1-50 is the money sink. couldnt have said it better myself. im always skint, on all of my chars.... :mad::mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abreen Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I totally agree here the economy in the game is pretty fudged up. I can't buy anything from legacy it's way too expensive and ridiculous too. Seriously 5 mil to have a GTN kiosk on your ship?! Really 5 mil!!!! You're out of your minds! And guilds shouldn't have to pay for a guild bank you idiots! Buying extra tabs I can see but really the bank?! I would love to know what kind of people you have working there because your ideas just suck and are terrible. And don't you love how many poeple unsubbed yesterday? And how many more will continue because you think not giving non 50's a free month is ok...it makes me laugh at how smart you guys are really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeaster Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 That's not true, you still have to buy consumables from Biotec... Oh.. Wait.. lol. right we did the quick math. mission costs + mats + time needed to create a stimpack & trading it. vs. just buying it off the medical droid. guess which proved to be more effective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerios Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Basically, once you are level 50 with epic level 49 mods, maxed crew skills and have your mount of choice, there really isn't much to spend your money on. It isn't a big deal at the moment because these sorts of problems start off small and eventually grow out of proportion. If new money sinks aren't introduced then soon enough the majority of players are going to have more credits than sense and a pretty bad case of inflation will set in. This will alienate new players who will struggle to keep up and won't to be able to afford anything. I assume (hope) you're aware of this - are there plans for additional money sinks to be introduced fairly soon? sounds like bioware took classes in US economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agemnon Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Basically, once you are level 50 with epic level 49 mods, maxed crew skills and have your mount of choice, there really isn't much to spend your money on. It isn't a big deal at the moment because these sorts of problems start off small and eventually grow out of proportion. If new money sinks aren't introduced then soon enough the majority of players are going to have more credits than sense and a pretty bad case of inflation will set in. This will alienate new players who will struggle to keep up and won't to be able to afford anything. I assume (hope) you're aware of this - are there plans for additional money sinks to be introduced fairly soon? Um, hello! New players could farm mats and sell them on the GTN too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agemnon Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Slicing already ruined the economy. I have over 10 million on 2 characters because of it and nothing to spend. During pre-launch I could have had more. I could take that 10 mill off your hands if you don't want it anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokivoid Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I can't buy anything from legacy it's way too expensive and ridiculous too. Seriously 5 mil to have a GTN kiosk on your ship?! Really 5 mil!!!! You're out of your minds! Odd, i had no issues unlocking every single one the second i logged in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abreen Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Odd, i had no issues unlocking every single one the second i logged in. Congratulations! I don't have a 50 my highest char is 34 plus a few alts and apparently you don't make money until you start doing dailies at 50 so shut your mouth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeaster Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 sounds like bioware took classes in US economics. new money sinks do not make any sense. you need to find different kinds of sinks for different kinds of players. new characters and new players should not struggle with 10k while a speeder costs 1000k you have to spend money while leveling up all the time anyway. you spend it on consumables, for education and for travel costs. at least let gathering and crafting be what they are meant to be: a source of income. what do you do on level 50? how about buying homes, creating large spaceships or even spaceports, buying titles and followers, buying statues, luxury items etc. i think it is important to look at activities on different level ranges and go from there. how could a level 50 make money? why not own a cantina and charge people for the drinks? cutting your hair or gaining an attribute from your parents should not be 5mil. that should be free. that's why legacy xp was introduced after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeaster Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Odd, i had no issues unlocking every single one the second i logged in. how about some details to add to the discussion? a one liner doesnt contribute at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paspinall Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 how about some details to add to the discussion? a one liner doesnt contribute at all. Well it does when you realise how many millions that would cost, and of course then we go back to how many 'not' millionaires there are in the game.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agemnon Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Well, from a non-level 50 player, its next to impossible to make credits, i can't gather materials to make credits, because crafters aren't doing their job and actually crafting for the community, so they don't buy any resources for anything higher then 500-1000cr per stack of 99 for all grades, so thats not viable for profit. The only skill that was, was slicing pre-over the top nerf, because crafters were QQ'ing about not making as much credits, it made me laugh......ofcourse you wouldn't, you weren't doing your freaking job as crafter. The severe lack of gear possibilities is what hurts the game in the long run, since the rewards you get are crap and the commendation gear is rubbish, i had to stomach crafting myself to just have greens to quest in, which i discovered, the greens are better then the commendation blues of the same level. Maybe its a mistake on biowares' part, but who knows, overall, there enough money sinks in this game, there just aren't enough profit making chances in the game...until endgame.....the process from 1-50 is the money sink. Some quest like the Glee one on Coruscant and the end of chapter 1 give good gear (for Smuggler at least), there needs to be way more options for modabble gear. As far as slicing goes I ran a few missions, came back with no crits (the day of the nerf), then said, "This is the last straw! I'm going scavenging!" that and underworld trading net me decent credits whenever I need the money or just get excess mats from trying to get an orange armormech schematic (the drop rates are unfortunately very, very low). Edited April 13, 2012 by Agemnon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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