Frostythefett Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 People have the right to complain when something isn't working. That's not the issue. The issue is when people complain and EXPECT or DEMAND that it gets fixed RIGHT NOW, or they quit. It is an unreasonable request. Quit if the person doesn't feel the game is worthwhile right now, but making unreasonable threats just show an ignorance to the development cycle of such a massive game. Exactly. I have a time card going right now and I am enjoying it for the story. I however, don't pvp or do much grouping due to current bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Did I say anything like that? Sorry Hitler, I won't disagree with you anymore. You're not saying much of anything, and you're certainly not answering any direct questions. Now that you've bought Hitler into it in true internet-knucklehead fashion, I can simply ignore you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiraiya_Goketsu Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 "Beating up on one enemy just doesn't feel....heroic." I mean, they kind of strayed from the path they originally started with and just said, aww screw it, and made the game that you see now. I'm not saying this game is bad. I am enjoying it. I think i have seen this somewhere before...... http://i.imgur.com/UmcMV.jpg Ah, yes now i remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nezroy Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 You don't know the salary of the average Bioware developer. It's probably not six figures as the video game industry usually pays you less than the rest of the world. Get a job at a video game company. I would hope not. The average salary of most line developers is not 6 figures in any industry. That's kind of the whole point. Your team and product leads absolutely need to be those few developers who CAN command 6 figures. They do exist, and they are worth every penny (even in the gaming industry after the standard game developer discount is applied). And while waving internet claims around is kind of pointless, it's fun and I'm bored today so I will add that I'm quite cogent of the average developer salaries in both Edmonton and Austin, and fairly up to date on the game developer discount, which isn't nearly as steep as some people think. The sacrifice for working at a game shop these days has more to do with the expectations around hours worked, crunch cycles, and the inevitable layoffs and instabilities that go hand-in-hand with one-shot retail product development teams. Your assumptions are also based on a 100% success rate. "If they aren't finding and fixing all the bugs, then they're not talented enough and don't know what they're doing. Hire some higher priced developers that can fix the bugs." My assumptions are based on 1) the # of bugs identified as fixed that re-occur or weren't actually fixed, 2) the number of bugs that were introduced by other fixes which points to a severe QA issue, and 3) the number of bugs simply not in the patch notes. 3 is most interesting because it speaks to the surprising reality of complex software development that there tends to be a fairly constant number of bugs that can be expected to exist in a project of given size, regardless of the build team or the project domain. There's also a well-understood pattern of bug fix frequency post-build; it's so well developed that it's frequently used to decide when a build has reached certain stages of maturity because you can make statistical claims about the likelihood of how many critical bugs probably remain unidentified and so forth. Based on the BW patch notes and other products in the same space, we can assume that either 1) their devs are really slow, or 2) their devs are fixing lots of bugs but most don't make it into the patch notes, or 3) most of their team is working on the next major content patch instead of post-launch patches, or 4) their project is statistically anomalous in the number of bugs for the size of the project. I highly doubt 4 and, frankly, I highly doubt 1 too. 2 or 3 is most likely. If 2, they have inexperienced/clueless QA and team leads. If 3, they have inexperienced or clueless product leads and producers. Most of this would be quite forgivable anyway except that one expects quite a bit more from an established shop like BW backed by the funding of EA. Plus, as a consumer, I get to complain about anything I want to... You have absolutely, positively, unequivocally no idea what you're talking about. Have you ever even had a job at a major corporation, let alone a video game developer? I could be the King of Siam for all it matters. The truth will out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsmileey Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 "Beating up on one enemy just doesn't feel....heroic." I mean, they kind of strayed from the path they originally started with and just said, aww screw it, and made the game that you see now. I'm not saying this game is bad. I am enjoying it. So to sum up what you said: The monster on rails will be fixed yes....but will general game play? Ehh..... Means: They don't fix bugs, but they do, but they won't fix the game that I like but it's not bad, and... wow, you know I was gonna write out this well-explained post that tries to map out your logic. But come on man -- Seriously!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolarus Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 People have the right to complain when something isn't working. That's not the issue. The issue is when people complain and EXPECT or DEMAND that it gets fixed RIGHT NOW, or they quit. It is an unreasonable request. Quit if the person doesn't feel the game is worthwhile right now, but making unreasonable threats just show an ignorance to the development cycle of such a massive game. This right here. Too many people seem to throw common sense out the window. It's the "It's all about me" and "I want now" crowd and scream and throw temper tantrums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poisonsenvy Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) lol another fanboy thread enabling BW fails....Where did that 300M go sure didn't go to SWTOR. If they really spent 300M on this a lot of people need to be fired...nuff said. Edited February 8, 2012 by Poisonsenvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiraiya_Goketsu Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 So you're the type that believes code is magically written, and completely bug free, within 24 hrs? If you have issues when a company tells you a fix "takes time", then you're a little behind on reality buddy. You're so far left or far right with your replies. The extremities your going to and leaps you are making, are out there man, like space cadet ****. Grab a rail and put your feet on the ground. Are you bipolar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostythefett Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 So to sum up what you said: Means: They don't fix bugs, but they do, but they won't fix the game that I like but it's not bad, and... wow, you know I was gonna write out this well-explained post that tries to map out your logic. But come on man -- Seriously!? God you are stupid lol. I am enjoying the game yes, FOR THE STORY, but general game play is lackluster at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I would hope not. The average salary of most line developers is not 6 figures in any industry. That's kind of the whole point. Your team and product leads absolutely need to be those few developers who CAN command 6 figures. They do exist, and they are worth every penny (even in the gaming industry after the standard game developer discount is applied). So, higher priced and more talented developers would certainly fix these bugs, and the reason they're not fixed is because Bioware isn't employing enough of these magical creatures. This is an assumption. My assumptions... I stopped reading here. This is the whole problem with this whole forum: substituting assumptions (not matter how reasonable you think they are) for facts, then basing your premises on these illusory facts that are really assumptions. It's just terrible, terrible thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 You're so far left or far right with your replies. The extremities your going to and leaps you are making, are out there man, like space cadet ****. Grab a rail and put your feet on the ground. Are you bipolar? This isn't a counter argument and you didn't answer his direct question. Because you can't. Just admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsmileey Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 lol another fanboy thread enabling BW fails....Where did that 300M go sure didn't go to SWTOR. If they really spent 300M on this a lot of people need to be fired...nuff said. oh look, another random poster thinking he can sum up a discussion with a "word of the month" -- "Fanboy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsmileey Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 God you are stupid lol. I am enjoying the game yes, FOR THE STORY, but general game play is lackluster at best. I am not stupid sir, I am simply making fun of your absurd method of writing. If you can't get that, I will have to be direct with my insults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slyvarius Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Did I say anything like that? Sorry Hitler, I won't disagree with you anymore. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiraiya_Goketsu Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 This isn't a counter argument and you didn't answer his direct question. Because you can't. Just admit it. What was his question again? Humor me please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiraiya_Goketsu Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 This isn't a counter argument and you didn't answer his direct question. Because you can't. Just admit it. And then when you answer that, then you can tell me how he made that leap from my previous post that he quoted and then took out of context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiraiya_Goketsu Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I am not stupid sir, I am simply making fun of your absurd method of writing. If you can't get that, I will have to be direct with my insults. Stupid is as stupid does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 What was his question again? Humor me please. Please tell me why software development can't be "hard" or "take time". Whenever you're ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsmileey Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 And then when you answer that, then you can tell me how he made that leap from my previous post that he quoted and then took out of context? So instead of just actually answering the question, you're sending people on wild goose chases? They are asking you legitimate questions and you just keep evading and changing the topic. or answering with another question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 What was his question again? Humor me please. Question: "So you're the type that believes code is magically written, and completely bug free, within 24 hrs?" Because you specifically said You can't just get by saying it's hard or you try it or it takes time. cycle this cycle that. that's an excuse not a reason. You seem to believe that if something takes time to resolve because of the realities of a company's development cycles, it is an unreasonable excuse. Hence I say, you're not very in tune with reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eadnams Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Did I say anything like that? Sorry Hitler, I won't disagree with you anymore. HAHA! Hitler Fallacy! Godwins Law WIN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiraiya_Goketsu Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Whenever you're ready. I'm still waiting on you bub. He never asked me that. WAKE the **** up! i picked up on this convo from here "It's not a "justification" perse, it is the fact of life for the Development cycles. It's an education piece for those who are ignorant about software development and think things should happen immediately and magically outside the space time continuum." Again where is that question you magically inserted into my life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Full context: Then why did they lynch SK for Too Human? it's the same thing man. You can't just get by saying it's hard or you try it or it takes time. cycle this cycle that. that's an excuse not a reason. ...what? This requires an essay. Please tell me why software development can't be "hard" or "take time". It's not an excuse. This is the way actual software development actually works. It doesn't work like you think it does. We're gonna stay right on this point until you get it, because it's not really a debate. You're not a chef, but you still want your souffle in 20 minutes, and you're telling all the professional chefs that they're doing it wrong. I'm here to tell you that you're plain ol' wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) It's an education piece for those who are ignorant about software development and think things should happen immediately and magically outside the space time continuum." Again where is that question you magically inserted into my life? See above. You're ignoring it because you've lost and won't admit it. This is typical of young males. Edited February 8, 2012 by JustTed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsmileey Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Stupid is as stupid does. LOL. I don't think you realize who you're actually insulting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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