bring balance to marauders!

[Precurso]

Since we have no positional attacks, and more Defensive CDs than Operatives and Sins, we don't need a real stealth.

 

Flashbang+Vanish+Debilitate+Evasion > 4 second Undying Rage for defense..

[darth_billy]

I have to disagree. The whole point of having a stealth is to have attacks BASED around the stealth mechanic and the ability to get into position for a heavy strike. Since we have no positional attacks, and more Defensive CDs than Operatives and Sins, we don't need a real stealth.

 

However I wouldn't be adverse to having a 12 Rage cost alpha strike for an emergency dump that's on a 2 minute CD.

 

i kinda like the idea of an Apha strike but i dont consider it as a solution

 

personanly i would like teh idea of having stealth as a go to move of my arsenal. it is cool ,its one of our most promoted features on the swtor previews(like character prog) and if it had a reasonable dduration and cd(as a proper key feature) it can be aa good solution since we already have many talents that enchance ii.

A proper stealth on group vs group situations you can tear apart your foes without a scratch on 1v1 you foes what to do more than a faceroll to bring you down

[darth_billy]

The problem with marauders is not that they don't deal enough damage cuz they do. The problem is too many cc abilties knocking us around like rag dolls.

 

Just tone down the cc knockback/stun crap. It's too abusive. Very annoying in Huttball with so many platforms. Tone it down so it can't be abused. Resolve only goes so far you need a true resistance buff againts them.

 

Once they get CC under control and more predictable in matches, then we can acess a DPS melee class's worth.

 

thats why i suggested a dramatic decrease on the CD of force charge , because this way you can cope with cc and kb since the practicall issue is you have to walk(probably slowed down)

your way back to your target who keeps punishing you grom distance

 

but one other idea someone posted here wast to make our petty stealth an actual stealth which can prove very handy

[Adwynyth]

What's wrong with there being a difficult class to play, exactly?

Here's my two cents on the issue.

 

Any class played with a given level of skill should have, on average, a roughly equal chance to kill someone of roughly equal skill playing another class with roughly equal gear.

 

That said, there's usually a giant embedded game of rock-paper-scissors, in that every class has one class that gives them fits, just so no class ends up as the "best" or "faceroll" one. A "nemesis", if you will.

 

The reward of having greater skill should be in taking out others with greater skill...not working all that much harder in order to be the same as every one else.

 

If you desire to use more skill to achieve the same result, believe me...I understand the motivation. That can be achieved by gearing yourself down, not using certain powers, speccing yourself differently, etc.

 

if you want to reach the pinnacle of achievement, equalize the classes' overall effectiveness (and the skill needed to bring out that level of effectiveness) and make about best vs. best (or noob vs. noob) instead of "wily 10-year vet needs to use all his skill to take down a faceroller on an OP class".

 

That type of win may be satisfying to the highly-skilled 10-year vet who enjoys a challenge like that, but those of us who simply don't have that level of skill (even being 10-year MMO vets) simply end up with a gimped class that we can't play.

 

This thread is mostly about PvP, but PvE suffers too...I end up with a class that I love, but that is relatively ineffective at my primary use for it: fighting NPCs. Not everybody's here for the PvP. I enjoy a challenge. But feeling like I'm wading through cement, level after level...not so much.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Adwynyth

[Dystrucktion]

Here is the thing. I love playing a marauder. But yes it is easy even at the skill level of some of us to get facerolled by say an inquisitor or counsoler by making 1 mistake. Force charge does need to have a much shorter cooldown than it currently has even with the talents. For an example in order to ensure a win agains such said easy mode, slam your face on the keyboard for easy dps, inquisitor/counsoler you have no choice but to run at them first and start attacking. This from the start kills our dps because we have no rage. The reason why you have to do this is because the first thing they are going to do is knock you back and stun you. You need to save your force charge for that. The problem with that is that their knockback is on the same cooldown as our force charge. This means that if you are playing against someone as skilled as some of us that they will save their knockback to counter your every charge. The only way to counteract that is to steath during the first knockback and run up to them throwing the rotation of knockback and charge off. The fix is to give marauders a real stun for one and maybe a high costing rage hard hitting move. This will definatly force marauders to manage rage more effectively. Second agains guys like operatives who have a million stuns and hit hard we should have force push just like juggernauts. This will give you a chance against them as well. Unless you are talented into 0m force charge your rage building will suffer and they will get the upperhand because they are stealthed and will start the fight and try to keep you stun locked. There are a lot of problems with the game and I do not have all the answers but marauders definatly are the weekest link in pvp for sure. BW needs to make a 50 marauder with all champion gear and go into WZ and see how much of an imbalance there is when fighting against other classes. I will continue to play my marauder while leveling an operative for a healer in hopes that they will improve marauders to bring them up to the same level as most other classes. Being a melee we are screwed from the start because what happens in most WZ especially huttball is all of those ranged are just AOEing down in the pit or center and just racking up the kills because they are on the ledge with nobody attacking them. If you force charge them they simply knock you back down. So you have no choice but to waste your force camo and run around and try to catch them off guard. Then after the knockback you can force jump. We are always at a dissadvantage.

[darth_billy]

Here's my two cents on the issue.

 

Any class played with a given level of skill should have, on average, a roughly equal chance to kill someone of roughly equal skill playing another class with roughly equal gear.

 

That said, there's usually a giant embedded game of rock-paper-scissors, in that every class has one class that gives them fits, just so no class ends up as the "best" or "faceroll" one. A "nemesis", if you will.

 

The reward of having greater skill should be in taking out others with greater skill...not working all that much harder in order to be the same as every one else.

 

If you desire to use more skill to achieve the same result, believe me...I understand the motivation. That can be achieved by gearing yourself down, not using certain powers, speccing yourself differently, etc.

 

if you want to reach the pinnacle of achievement, equalize the classes' overall effectiveness (and the skill needed to bring out that level of effectiveness) and make about best vs. best (or noob vs. noob) instead of "wily 10-year vet needs to use all his skill to take down a faceroller on an OP class".

 

That type of win may be satisfying to the highly-skilled 10-year vet who enjoys a challenge like that, but those of us who simply don't have that level of skill (even being 10-year MMO vets) simply end up with a gimped class that we can't play.

 

This thread is mostly about PvP, but PvE suffers too...I end up with a class that I love, but that is relatively ineffective at my primary use for it: fighting NPCs. Not everybody's here for the PvP. I enjoy a challenge. But feeling like I'm wading through cement, level after level...not so much.

 

pvp wise i dont have some to add to your post.

pve wise i 've never had a problem because if a planet was for 24-47lv i was by the time i got there at least lv26, i dumped quin the moment i ve got jaesa an this is something that had tremendous benefits for my game ecpecially pvp wise . also i was always spending credits to have the best armor posible for my level.

 

when it comes in operations and sometimes HM flashpoints most people prefer ranged dps which a big problem for us which can be explain with something i mentioned on my original post and happens on pve too. As i said ranged dps can deal the same DAMAGE/SEC(as pure stats) like we do which is unfair meelee should be dealing significantly more DAMAGE/SEC than ranged players and i can explain it.

 

ranged dps classes : they dont have to stop their sequence-rotation as long as they are in range and since it is 30m it happens most ot the times when their target is dead, also on pve they can still deal damage while they are moving away to avoid a boss's aoe effect etc

meelee dps classes : they have only 4m range that means whenever they are immobilized or they move out of harm's(aoe's) way they are forced to be out range=they deal 0 damage. also the have to cover 26 more meters every time just to start their dps + they have to gather rage 1st

 

practically it is like ball possesion in football(soccer).if for example in a wz a ranged class can consistently deal damage for total of 10mins out of the 15mins that the wz lasts a meelee can deal damage for sgnificantly less time

Edited February 9, 2012 by darth_billy

[darth_billy]

Here is the thing. I love playing a marauder. But yes it is easy even at the skill level of some of us to get facerolled by say an inquisitor or counsoler by making 1 mistake. Force charge does need to have a much shorter cooldown than it currently has even with the talents. For an example in order to ensure a win agains such said easy mode, slam your face on the keyboard for easy dps, inquisitor/counsoler you have no choice but to run at them first and start attacking. This from the start kills our dps because we have no rage. The reason why you have to do this is because the first thing they are going to do is knock you back and stun you. You need to save your force charge for that. The problem with that is that their knockback is on the same cooldown as our force charge. This means that if you are playing against someone as skilled as some of us that they will save their knockback to counter your every charge. The only way to counteract that is to steath during the first knockback and run up to them throwing the rotation of knockback and charge off. The fix is to give marauders a real stun for one and maybe a high costing rage hard hitting move. This will definatly force marauders to manage rage more effectively. Second agains guys like operatives who have a million stuns and hit hard we should have force push just like juggernauts. This will give you a chance against them as well. Unless you are talented into 0m force charge your rage building will suffer and they will get the upperhand because they are stealthed and will start the fight and try to keep you stun locked. There are a lot of problems with the game and I do not have all the answers but marauders definatly are the weekest link in pvp for sure. BW needs to make a 50 marauder with all champion gear and go into WZ and see how much of an imbalance there is when fighting against other classes. I will continue to play my marauder while leveling an operative for a healer in hopes that they will improve marauders to bring them up to the same level as most other classes. Being a melee we are screwed from the start because what happens in most WZ especially huttball is all of those ranged are just AOEing down in the pit or center and just racking up the kills because they are on the ledge with nobody attacking them. If you force charge them they simply knock you back down. So you have no choice but to waste your force camo and run around and try to catch them off guard. Then after the knockback you can force jump. We are always at a dissadvantage.

 

the tact you desribed at the beggining suites 1v1 situations , also if you walk your way to a ranged target probably you will sustain so much damage in the proccess that tha fight is already lost and force camouflage had a ridiculously short duration and its CD isnt big but it is long enough to kick it out of your rotation and make another move to have in mind when it happens to be out of cd and even then you keep it to protect you from being outnumbered.

 

i suggested this because most of our problems pvpwise rely on the fact that we have to close distance again and again and only crippling slash helps us towards this direction.

someone suggested to give us a TRUE stealth and to be honest i like it even more than my suggestion because stealth was promoted as 1 of our key features and it fells so marauder

Edited February 9, 2012 by darth_billy

[ScipioAemilianus]

I'm not really seeing the same problemwithmy Maur as you guys.

 

I think thre are a few issues here

 

1.) you are playing this game with every other MMO mindset.

- You have to recognise this game is structured different than the others.

 

2.) There has been toomuch reliance on macros form other games

-this creates a train of thought in which you cannot be dynamic and think on your feet. not every single fight is going to be the same. if you relied on them in other games you will nto do well untill you get off the bottle.

-to much reliance on a rotation. again be dynamic. change it up use teh ability that best suits the situation. This is where skilll comes in. Recognizing in a fast enough manor what you need to do to counter what is happening. (this is the overall skill of any game) Macro mentality or rotation mentality can't get out of this box.

 

3.) you are not goign to be the killer of worlds.

- know that you are softer than others knowing this you cannot jump into the middle and become a god of carnage. you need to play smart pick targets hit and run. let someone else be the focus that can better tank. ..

- if the fight is going bad, run no shame in itregroup and come back you might be getting hit bymore than one person.

 

4.) if knocked back you can use obliterate. . .it gets me back in the fight. and out of the acid. You should not be relying on the acid or fire to win your fights.

 

5.) people mistaking poor choices for the game being unfair. I've had osme bad matches my timing was off and I mad esome poor choiceson when to jump in. ..it happens. Your team could be total tools and 8 guys coudl run off after one guy leaving you to deal with the ball carrier and his 6 friends. . .it happens. But do not scream game balance. The game is very well balanced in my opinion. I enjoy having some class harder to fight than others.

 

6.) stuns. . .Y U have no stuns? force charge momantarily stuns, force choke is a stun of sorts, ther eis one that I cannot remember the name and I am at work but it interupts and knocks them on the ground, ther eis also a kite that has a really fast cool down. Try intrupting we have several methods try them.

 

7.) are you in the right stance? is your build of stats correct? I found by stacking crit and surge I kick out the dps like I should be. . . DO you have the right buff going on? you know you can change to a mor edefensive stance with you need it to keep up longer. There use stacks of fury to get you things you need to help. read the descriptions of the abilities.

 

8) level up yeah I thought man if thhis is how maur is going to be through out the game when I was a low level I thougt thsi is gonna suck. as you gain levels you become more of amonster, providing you read your skills, use the abilities and stack your skillpoints properly as well as your stats.

 

9.) no CC. . . .are you joking? we have smash which so far I have been criting for 2.7-3k in an area. . .(I'm not quite 50 yet.) we have bezerk + the slash that hits 2 targets, and ther eis one I can't remember the name of which is an area attack. I don't see this problem that you are having.

 

 

Over all I find that there is no real problem with the class. to many people are thinging its a class like other MMOs where you run in kick *** and are the last man standing. That's definatly not how this game was designed for any class. You need to try different things, perhaps if what you are doing isn't working do something else? If you read over the threads the debate on which tree is better seems pretty even. Each has an advantage or disadvantage. This tells me ther esisn't much wrong with "balance" there are different trees and skills to compensate for different play styles. It just appears that some can "get" the class and others can't. It also tells me who played stun locking rouges in WOW.

 

Over all stop complaining about what you CAN't Do and figure out what you CAN do. People who cry balance can't seem to learn how to play and that's why others get mad at them for dumbing down a class. You kinda have to think on this oe instead of mashing buttons.

[ScipioAemilianus]

I didn't spell check or check the grammer so in before grammer nazi

[nonumbers]

Marauder isn't a stealth class, there is already a melee stealth class there, I've already made several suggestions in other threads as to things that could be done to help fix marauder but it's not just a case of Marauder needs a bit of a buff, some of the other classes actually do need to be Nerfed, healers more so are rather overpowered in PvP.

 

I think the one that gets to me the most tho is snipers, not only do they have a pushback... you can't force charge them... who thought this would be balanced against melees?

Force Pull here would help as it'd break their cover and also allow us to pull ranged characters out of their camping nests, personally tho I think force pull should go on SW rather then just marauders.

 

On top of force pull the other things I think might balance marauder but not too, to great an extreme...

 

Marauder itself I think there should be a 4th fury ability which is effectively a damage reflect buff with a CD (like bloodthrist). Probably only something like 10% reflect of damage after other damage reductions (I.E. cloak of pain) for 15 seconds on a similar 5 minute cool down to blood thirst.

 

Also I think that fury should not reset on death, rage is fine but fury reseting makes under-geared marauders even more disadvantaged then needs be, given you're unlikely to die with a full stack of fury it'd still require getting to another enemy within a minute anyway.

 

Annihilation

 

with my suggestion above, short fuse should then be changed to reduce the fury cost of predation and berserk by 7 a level and bloodthirst by 4 fury a level, rather then increasing fury build. It'd also mean you could use predation and berserk at almost the same time after using frenzy or building all the way up to 30, it would also mean that bloodthirst is harder to use and the 4th buff is even harder then that.

 

Carnage

 

Add to unbound an additional buff for resistance against movement impairing effects for 15 seconds to the same effect (so 50% chance resistance at 1 and 100% chance at 2).

 

Ataru strikes should lower an enemies accuracy by 1% for 4 seconds, stacking to a maximum of 5 and ataru's defensive form should boost melee and ranged evasion 1% on top of the movement speed boost... after all defensive form is in the carnage tree and yet really offers the least for carnage itself... movement speed increases help close gaps but that's aggressive, not defensive... the defensive form does little for defense other then trying to flee but against ranged characters it's kinda pointless.

 

Erupting Fury should just be changed for something else... 1 fury on defeating an opponent, that really isn't worth speccing at all... I don't think I've even seen a spec that anybody has used that in, perhaps switch in Retaliation and gore rage cost reduction instead? Or perhaps 3% endurance... anything better then 1 or 2 fury for "killing" an opponent.

 

Rage

 

Also grant the benefits of Payback to Undying Yield on top of Unleash, (so that you actually recover health if you use undying yield below 20% HP, but still lose HP if you use it above 20% HP)

 

Also give interceptor a 15% chance per level to reduce the cost of force crush by 1 for 5 seconds, on top of the small movement speed increase after obliterate.

Edited February 9, 2012 by nonumbers

[Dystrucktion]

I'm not really seeing the same problemwithmy Maur as you guys.

 

I think thre are a few issues here

 

1.) you are playing this game with every other MMO mindset.

- You have to recognise this game is structured different than the others.

 

2.) There has been toomuch reliance on macros form other games

-this creates a train of thought in which you cannot be dynamic and think on your feet. not every single fight is going to be the same. if you relied on them in other games you will nto do well untill you get off the bottle.

-to much reliance on a rotation. again be dynamic. change it up use teh ability that best suits the situation. This is where skilll comes in. Recognizing in a fast enough manor what you need to do to counter what is happening. (this is the overall skill of any game) Macro mentality or rotation mentality can't get out of this box.

 

3.) you are not goign to be the killer of worlds.

- know that you are softer than others knowing this you cannot jump into the middle and become a god of carnage. you need to play smart pick targets hit and run. let someone else be the focus that can better tank. ..

- if the fight is going bad, run no shame in itregroup and come back you might be getting hit bymore than one person.

 

4.) if knocked back you can use obliterate. . .it gets me back in the fight. and out of the acid. You should not be relying on the acid or fire to win your fights.

 

5.) people mistaking poor choices for the game being unfair. I've had osme bad matches my timing was off and I mad esome poor choiceson when to jump in. ..it happens. Your team could be total tools and 8 guys coudl run off after one guy leaving you to deal with the ball carrier and his 6 friends. . .it happens. But do not scream game balance. The game is very well balanced in my opinion. I enjoy having some class harder to fight than others.

 

6.) stuns. . .Y U have no stuns? force charge momantarily stuns, force choke is a stun of sorts, ther eis one that I cannot remember the name and I am at work but it interupts and knocks them on the ground, ther eis also a kite that has a really fast cool down. Try intrupting we have several methods try them.

 

7.) are you in the right stance? is your build of stats correct? I found by stacking crit and surge I kick out the dps like I should be. . . DO you have the right buff going on? you know you can change to a mor edefensive stance with you need it to keep up longer. There use stacks of fury to get you things you need to help. read the descriptions of the abilities.

 

8) level up yeah I thought man if thhis is how maur is going to be through out the game when I was a low level I thougt thsi is gonna suck. as you gain levels you become more of amonster, providing you read your skills, use the abilities and stack your skillpoints properly as well as your stats.

 

9.) no CC. . . .are you joking? we have smash which so far I have been criting for 2.7-3k in an area. . .(I'm not quite 50 yet.) we have bezerk + the slash that hits 2 targets, and ther eis one I can't remember the name of which is an area attack. I don't see this problem that you are having.

 

 

Over all I find that there is no real problem with the class. to many people are thinging its a class like other MMOs where you run in kick *** and are the last man standing. That's definatly not how this game was designed for any class. You need to try different things, perhaps if what you are doing isn't working do something else? If you read over the threads the debate on which tree is better seems pretty even. Each has an advantage or disadvantage. This tells me ther esisn't much wrong with "balance" there are different trees and skills to compensate for different play styles. It just appears that some can "get" the class and others can't. It also tells me who played stun locking rouges in WOW.

 

Over all stop complaining about what you CAN't Do and figure out what you CAN do. People who cry balance can't seem to learn how to play and that's why others get mad at them for dumbing down a class. You kinda have to think on this oe instead of mashing buttons.

 

Hit 50 first and then go into pvp. Rage sucks in pvp at 50 because of how long it takes to build up to get your smash off. Last I checked everytime i have done a force charge and a choke in PVP it only stops them about half the time. Dont know why. I think it is broken. I see the dot ticking off but they keep moving. I even used my AOE stun which isnt a stun because if the target takes damage it breaks and watched them use their trinket to break it then I choked them and nothing. Then I force jump and nothing again. It is broke.

[ScipioAemilianus]

what ar eyou fighting are they protected by a sith inq guardian buff?

 

did youput the skill points in your pushback on the choke? it can be broken by someone else interupting. Ther eare toomany variables. I'm really not having these issues. when they do something counter it. every class has an offensive move and a defence to counter said offences. gotta get out of wow mentality.

 

rage better than anhil. .. or vice versa seems the popular opinion out there in the forums is both ar eliked for different reasons, maybe its your personal game play or style. The game has been out what 4 months now is far to early for people to master every aspect of a class there is constant improvement. I'ld like to see this farther down the road when people can wrap thier brains aroudn the way the mechanics work here versus the wow mentality.

 

hit level 50 first? so you are saying I fall off a cliff in 2 levels that it goes from good to complete trash? sorry not buying it look at what is happening ad perhaps your skills before blaming a class. a good player could make anything work.

[Dystrucktion]

No when you hit 50 you will see pvp is totally different. Especially when you first hit 50 because you will have 0 expertise and you will have low health. I have full chapion gear and still run into wz where I come in and get stunned to death and have no chance at doing anything. It happens. Try to pvp against a team of all inquisitors and troopers. Game over. You stand 0 chance at surviving.

[ScipioAemilianus]

No when you hit 50 you will see pvp is totally different. Especially when you first hit 50 because you will have 0 expertise and you will have low health. I have full chapion gear and still run into wz where I come in and get stunned to death and have no chance at doing anything. It happens. Try to pvp against a team of all inquisitors and troopers. Game over. You stand 0 chance at surviving.

 

so it's just you against all of them? wher eis your team? why are you jumping in far too early? you know what they are goign to do figure out somethign to get out of it. All I see is crying. go play atrooper or an INQ you'll learn the holes in which you can take advantage of thier weaknesses. Do something for gods sake you seem liek the guy that is goign to keep trying to put a squar eppeg in a round hole no matter how many times it won't work, then cry about th ehammer being underpowered.

[darth_billy]

I'm not really seeing the same problemwithmy Maur as you guys.

 

I think thre are a few issues here

 

1.) you are playing this game with every other MMO mindset.

- You have to recognise this game is structured different than the others.

 

2.) There has been toomuch reliance on macros form other games

-this creates a train of thought in which you cannot be dynamic and think on your feet. not every single fight is going to be the same. if you relied on them in other games you will nto do well untill you get off the bottle.

-to much reliance on a rotation. again be dynamic. change it up use teh ability that best suits the situation. This is where skilll comes in. Recognizing in a fast enough manor what you need to do to counter what is happening. (this is the overall skill of any game) Macro mentality or rotation mentality can't get out of this box.

 

3.) you are not goign to be the killer of worlds.

- know that you are softer than others knowing this you cannot jump into the middle and become a god of carnage. you need to play smart pick targets hit and run. let someone else be the focus that can better tank. ..

- if the fight is going bad, run no shame in itregroup and come back you might be getting hit bymore than one person.

 

4.) if knocked back you can use obliterate. . .it gets me back in the fight. and out of the acid. You should not be relying on the acid or fire to win your fights.

 

5.) people mistaking poor choices for the game being unfair. I've had osme bad matches my timing was off and I mad esome poor choiceson when to jump in. ..it happens. Your team could be total tools and 8 guys coudl run off after one guy leaving you to deal with the ball carrier and his 6 friends. . .it happens. But do not scream game balance. The game is very well balanced in my opinion. I enjoy having some class harder to fight than others.

 

6.) stuns. . .Y U have no stuns? force charge momantarily stuns, force choke is a stun of sorts, ther eis one that I cannot remember the name and I am at work but it interupts and knocks them on the ground, ther eis also a kite that has a really fast cool down. Try intrupting we have several methods try them.

 

7.) are you in the right stance? is your build of stats correct? I found by stacking crit and surge I kick out the dps like I should be. . . DO you have the right buff going on? you know you can change to a mor edefensive stance with you need it to keep up longer. There use stacks of fury to get you things you need to help. read the descriptions of the abilities.

 

8) level up yeah I thought man if thhis is how maur is going to be through out the game when I was a low level I thougt thsi is gonna suck. as you gain levels you become more of amonster, providing you read your skills, use the abilities and stack your skillpoints properly as well as your stats.

 

9.) no CC. . . .are you joking? we have smash which so far I have been criting for 2.7-3k in an area. . .(I'm not quite 50 yet.) we have bezerk + the slash that hits 2 targets, and ther eis one I can't remember the name of which is an area attack. I don't see this problem that you are having.

 

 

Over all I find that there is no real problem with the class. to many people are thinging its a class like other MMOs where you run in kick *** and are the last man standing. That's definatly not how this game was designed for any class. You need to try different things, perhaps if what you are doing isn't working do something else? If you read over the threads the debate on which tree is better seems pretty even. Each has an advantage or disadvantage. This tells me ther esisn't much wrong with "balance" there are different trees and skills to compensate for different play styles. It just appears that some can "get" the class and others can't. It also tells me who played stun locking rouges in WOW.

 

Over all stop complaining about what you CAN't Do and figure out what you CAN do. People who cry balance can't seem to learn how to play and that's why others get mad at them for dumbing down a class. You kinda have to think on this oe instead of mashing buttons.

 

 

1st of all you said you are almost LV50 YOU ARE NOT LV 50 in other words you have much better armor an d you have more skills(spec) that the vast majority of your pvp oponnet,s i have been there too and it was nice .

When the lv50 tier was applied on pvp wz i was slightly above lv40 and i was feeling like a god player, i was a dps machine when i hitted lv50 my arrognance hitted rock bottom .

You are going to eat your words when you get at lv50 , enjoy this while it lasts. also to prove what a stuborn you are to admit that you devoted time to a class consider the weak link of pvp i quote what a dev stated about how UNBALANCED dualwielders are

 

Our attention to the class obviously won't stop here. Balancing MMOs is a never ending endeavor and we're in for the long haul. For example, we are certainly aware that the Marauder and Sentinel are very gameplay intensive classes with some of the most complex rotations in the game. While we are currently looking at quality of life and usability improvements to increase the class' playability without compromising the unique aspects of the class, we don't have anything specific to announce just yet. We do however anticipate that some of the combat responsiveness improvements (AKA 'ability delay' - more on that here) being worked on by our engineering team will specifically aid both Marauder and Sentinel. in other words their battle log sais oops we did smth wrong here

 

now let me respond at some of your points.

4)if there is only 1 specific tree that provides you proper gameplay then IT IN NOT OK!!!!!!!!!

3) nobosy wants to be the killer of the worlds , we want equally skilled players have the same results and the devs post that i quoted proves my point

5)if you make poor choises you deserve to crash and burn nobody disagrres with that, dont put words in our mouth to makes our points look invalid

6)I never asked for extra stuns read my original post ,the problem is that none of these you metioned other than intimidation, our interrupt(btw everyone has one),HELP YOU PROTECT YOUR SELF!!! also with force charge you immbilize your foe you dont stun him he can still hit cause you are in range

7)1st- of all pvp gear for our class boost POWER NOT CRITS AND SURGE!!!!! gues why

2nd- we dont have defensive forms and almost everyone knows how to use cloack of pain and saber ward ,sorry to ruin this for but you are not the only one who does:o

3rd- every tree revolves around on specific form otherwise it's talents are not working.

8) you are not a monster simply the majority of your opponets are weaker than, you i ve been there and it felt awesome ,when you hit lv50 it is gonna be the exact oposite .

9)smash os not a cc it is an aoe effect that has ONLY 5 meters range,it cc to standar mobs only. and beserk+vicious slash is a magnificent combo on rage spec since it consumes no rage but as cc is pathetic

 

your epilogue is simply are pure weak generalizations i am not gonna waste any more of my time.

 

those who are lv 50 know that we are nones 1st choises on hm and rais for the dps spot.

try to honestly answer why.

 

 

I am never gonna give up on my mara he will always be my favorite no matter what other class i play with. All i am asking is for any mara user to able to have the same results with a different spec player of the same skill level and this definetly not what happens now.

Edited February 10, 2012 by darth_billy

[ScipioAemilianus]

can you put some structure to this?it looks like tis all over the place. In short all I heard was crying. yousiply state wha tyou cannot do nto what you cna do with what you have. that is why you fail.

 

stop with balance. Balance is nothing more than crying that you can't do something. try to figure out what the roll of your class is, and what you are supposed to be doign with it. again sticking a square peg in a round hole. Just becuase this is one I have that is not levl 50 does not mean I don't know what happens there.

 

Cry more noob. Wow called they want to give you "balance."

[darth_billy]

Marauder isn't a stealth class, there is already a melee stealth class there, I've already made several suggestions in other threads as to things that could be done to help fix marauder but it's not just a case of Marauder needs a bit of a buff, some of the other classes actually do need to be Nerfed, healers more so are rather overpowered in PvP.

 

I think the one that gets to me the most tho is snipers, not only do they have a pushback... you can't force charge them... who thought this would be balanced against melees?

Force Pull here would help as it'd break their cover and also allow us to pull ranged characters out of their camping nests, personally tho I think force pull should go on SW rather then just marauders.

 

On top of force pull the other things I think might balance marauder but not too, to great an extreme...

 

Marauder itself I think there should be a 4th fury ability which is effectively a damage reflect buff with a CD (like bloodthrist). Probably only something like 10% reflect of damage after other damage reductions (I.E. cloak of pain) for 15 seconds on a similar 5 minute cool down to blood thirst.

 

Also I think that fury should not reset on death, rage is fine but fury reseting makes under-geared marauders even more disadvantaged then needs be, given you're unlikely to die with a full stack of fury it'd still require getting to another enemy within a minute anyway.

 

Annihilation

 

with my suggestion above, short fuse should then be changed to reduce the fury cost of predation and berserk by 7 a level and bloodthirst by 4 fury a level, rather then increasing fury build. It'd also mean you could use predation and berserk at almost the same time after using frenzy or building all the way up to 30, it would also mean that bloodthirst is harder to use and the 4th buff is even harder then that.

 

Carnage

 

Add to unbound an additional buff for resistance against movement impairing effects for 15 seconds to the same effect (so 50% chance resistance at 1 and 100% chance at 2).

 

Ataru strikes should lower an enemies accuracy by 1% for 4 seconds, stacking to a maximum of 5 and ataru's defensive form should boost melee and ranged evasion 1% on top of the movement speed boost... after all defensive form is in the carnage tree and yet really offers the least for carnage itself... movement speed increases help close gaps but that's aggressive, not defensive... the defensive form does little for defense other then trying to flee but against ranged characters it's kinda pointless.

 

Erupting Fury should just be changed for something else... 1 fury on defeating an opponent, that really isn't worth speccing at all... I don't think I've even seen a spec that anybody has used that in, perhaps switch in Retaliation and gore rage cost reduction instead? Or perhaps 3% endurance... anything better then 1 or 2 fury for "killing" an opponent.

 

Rage

 

Also grant the benefits of Payback to Undying Yield on top of Unleash, (so that you actually recover health if you use undying yield below 20% HP, but still lose HP if you use it above 20% HP)

 

Also give interceptor a 15% chance per level to reduce the cost of force crush by 1 for 5 seconds, on top of the small movement speed increase after obliterate.

 

even o dont really agree with you provided proper clarification:rolleyes:

let me make somepoints according to what you said .

1- i am against nerfs, players have devoted time to their characters and they should not pay for devs mistakes and misconceptions

3- i am anhi but i LOVE carnage the only reason i dumped it is that pvp has too much latency and due to latency you are losing some really precious time out of the 6sec armor penetration gore provides you.(it gives immolbilize efefct to ravage which is very important!)

4- i dont bother that rage resets when i die , but it is unacceptable to lose the rage i builded when you switch from attacker to defender(and viseversa) at voidstar since that pause works to everyother classes advance.

 

the reasoning behind my suggestion is that even if it happens it will still require skill to be utilized properly.

the i reason i like even more the idea of a legit stealth is that it feel so marauder(watch sw character prog vid:rolleyes:) and cause i am very confident it is gonna make mara the most exciting classes and i love the idea of dealing the finishing blow comming out of stealth, thats my opinion maybe i am out of mind or stupid:p

Edited February 10, 2012 by darth_billy

[darth_billy]

Hit 50 first and then go into pvp. Rage sucks in pvp at 50 because of how long it takes to build up to get your smash off. Last I checked everytime i have done a force charge and a choke in PVP it only stops them about half the time. Dont know why. I think it is broken. I see the dot ticking off but they keep moving. I even used my AOE stun which isnt a stun because if the target takes damage it breaks and watched them use their trinket to break it then I choked them and nothing. Then I force jump and nothing again. It is broke.

 

mate i dont wanna any stuns at all the reason marauders are so awesome and we dont give up on them is being so aggresive and straight forward!

all i want is a fair chance to overcome other specs cheap shots ,providing i have the proper amount of skill to do so OFC, i am not asking to be given smth for free but to have a fair chance to earn it my self:rolleyes:

Edited February 10, 2012 by darth_billy

[darth_billy]

can you put some structure to this?it looks like tis all over the place. In short all I heard was crying. yousiply state wha tyou cannot do nto what you cna do with what you have. that is why you fail.

 

stop with balance. Balance is nothing more than crying that you can't do something. try to figure out what the roll of your class is, and what you are supposed to be doign with it. again sticking a square peg in a round hole. Just becuase this is one I have that is not levl 50 does not mean I don't know what happens there.

 

Cry more noob. Wow called they want to give you "balance."

 

if the quote the for the devs post can not knock some sense into y i cant do anything.

if you are not mature enugh to admit you devoted time on UP class(smth actually you should be proud off) it is your problem not mine.

 

Indeed i am a NOOB and i am proud that i havent played wow or any other mmo for a single min and i am doing much better that many other with of experince on mmos.

your response was so predictable ,from your original post ot was clear we will end up to this...

All you were trying to do with your post was to show us how cool and great are by knowing everything about specs, ablities and how to utilize them, probably you wanted as to recognize how great your are and thanking you for the tips, do you really excpected that explaining fundumental things would impress anyone?

 

this is a post for pure losers like me thank for your time and good luck mate

 

p.s. on page 4 there is a post by a guy named tumri he plays as a marauder he deals 400k+ damage and generally dominates most wz he plays. Please have a look at what a player who has every right to brag has to say about the topic we are discssing here

Edited February 10, 2012 by darth_billy

[darth_billy]

No when you hit 50 you will see pvp is totally different. Especially when you first hit 50 because you will have 0 expertise and you will have low health. I have full chapion gear and still run into wz where I come in and get stunned to death and have no chance at doing anything. It happens. Try to pvp against a team of all inquisitors and troopers. Game over. You stand 0 chance at surviving.

 

if you attack a bunch of enemies by your self is poor choise and you have to die but probably you talking about times that the opposite team is consisted of troops , incs ... indeed this a tough situation . Rep teams are 9/10 wz are consited by sages, troops and smugglers

Edited February 10, 2012 by darth_billy

[Avengelyne]

I've been leveling my warrior which although is fun to play in general is very frustrating in PVP in the mid-range lvls.

 

Now, Stop. Please dont respond with 'Hit 50 everything will be ok' --I've heard it all before but doesnt change my situation. Every other class has good to awesome Mid-range game, I've played Both SI's Lightning Sorc & Deception Assassin aswell as a Tracer missile spaming BH.

 

What I want is to be competitive in the mid-range lvls, I shouldnt be penalised or locked out of pvp while leveling just because it gets good at 50. Everyone else can enjoy it, unless they are Mara/sent - So I should be able too aswell.

CC, Stuns, Slows are all but non-existant in the midrange, Force Charging gets you knocked back (Instantly with BH/Trooper it seems) - and yes you can run into combat, wait for Knockback, then Force charge but that doesnt help if your in the huttball pit (from a previous knockback) and the Ball carrier is on Your Ramp - Note Obliterate only has a 10m Range so in that situation it wouldnt work even if your were specced Rage (Im not, Prefer Annihilation).

 

Imo i'd like to see some change in talents that either--Allows you to have a % chance to become immune to knockback effects for say 3sec per point on a 2 point talent when Force Charging OR allow for a 3 point talent that gives you a % chance to reset the CD of Force Charge when your hit by a knockback effect.

 

If thats not Ok then change Force Smash to be a knockback effect instead of a weak *** stun so that we're at least on par with other classes.

 

Force Choke to me seems ineffective but perhaps its just me, often I use it on Ball carriers for instance and they just keep running - I usually wait till they've been CC'd already to use it to make sure they cant break out but it still seems hit & miss as to whether it actually works.

 

Does Force Scream Stun Players? Never have the time to notice (just popped in my head while i was on a roll) If it doesnt it should.

 

These changes should not be in the Rage tree either.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Avengelyne

[darth_billy]

I've been leveling my warrior which although is fun to play in general is very frustrating in PVP in the mid-range lvls.

 

Now, Stop. Please dont respond with 'Hit 50 everything will be ok' --I've heard it all before but doesnt change my situation. Every other class has good to awesome Mid-range game, I've played Both SI's Lightning Sorc & Deception Assassin aswell as a Tracer missile spaming BH.

 

What I want is to be competitive in the mid-range lvls, I shouldnt be penalised or locked out of pvp while leveling just because it gets good at 50. Everyone else can enjoy it, unless they are Mara/sent - So I should be able too aswell.

CC, Stuns, Slows are all but non-existant in the midrange, Force Charging gets you knocked back (Instantly with BH/Trooper it seems) - and yes you can run into combat, wait for Knockback, then Force charge but that doesnt help if your in the huttball pit (from a previous knockback) and the Ball carrier is on Your Ramp - Note Obliterate only has a 10m Range so in that situation it wouldnt work even if your were specced Rage (Im not, Prefer Annihilation).

 

Imo i'd like to see some change in talents that either--Allows you to have a % chance to become immune to knockback effects for say 3sec per point on a 2 point talent when Force Charging OR allow for a 3 point talent that gives you a % chance to reset the CD of Force Charge when your hit by a knockback effect.

 

If thats not Ok then change Force Smash to be a knockback effect instead of a weak *** stun so that we're at least on par with other classes.

 

Force Choke to me seems ineffective but perhaps its just me, often I use it on Ball carriers for instance and they just keep running - I usually wait till they've been CC'd already to use it to make sure they cant break out but it still seems hit & miss as to whether it actually works.

 

Does Force Scream Stun Players? Never have the time to notice (just popped in my head while i was on a roll) If it doesnt it should.

 

These changes should not be in the Rage tree either.

 

since your post is kinda big(no prb at all:)) i ll give a response to every topic separetely

1- it will not be ok when you hit 50 it will be even harder, way more demanding to be specfic ,opponets are tougher ofc you get some very good skills but they are touh to handle escpecially serious buffs have big cooldowns , short durations and most of tem require 30 stacks of fury which obviously reset every time you die, since we are so straight forward, buffs should be more like go to moves for our class .

 

2- mid level pvp was ok, not great but ok (after lv30-32 as i remember) for me but the truth but the truth is mara's game revolves around the tree talents which makes your point smth more than valid.friendly advice go carnage while levelibg up and then go anhilation.

 

3-with obliterate is simply a good move and with it you replace deadly throw thats all . rage tree fits perfectly if you always q for wz with your group because in my opinion it makes a good teamate but carnage and anhilaton are by far better than rage(just my opinion) generally.

 

4- i find ok your suggestion for force charge on the other hand smash doesnt stuns pvp opponets only standar and weak also t i dont like the idea stuns on mara i found them...(cesnsored word , no offence) i love mara for being straight forward

 

5- pvp opponets are considered elites and FS doesnt stuns elites.

also it is very unfair that we are the only class that cnat utilize the enviroment with effect like push or pull.

common scene on voidstar trooper-consular(sometimes more than 1) stands on the bridge kitting you and you cant attack cause with his knockback he will throw you under the bridge, without force camouflage or teamates(that will give a ... about you ) you are dead without any fighting chance

Edited February 11, 2012 by darth_billy

[Herblaw]

Let me add my 2 cents to the mix.IF YOU DON'T LIKE A CLASS THAT TAKES TIME TO GET GOOD WITH ROLL SOMETHING ELSE!

 

I'm still pretty new to the game but everyday im getting better with my marauder.In the end all classes have their own con's along with Pro's..If somoene knows how to play their class EXCEPTIONALLY well then good for them.If all you do is complain because you are not one of the few then roll something you can faceroll..i love the idea of having a class that takes time to learn and keep up with average skill level players.

[Maxxacre]

Indeed there are mara who top damage/kill chart on a wz but they are exceptionaly skilled.

 

You said it yourself. Marauders with actual skill top damage charts. Those without fail miserably. If you're not skilled, this is not the class for you. Don't demand the class be dumbed down so it can play itself... just go play an Arsenal Mercenary if you want easy derp DPS.

[nonumbers]

even o dont really agree with you provided proper clarification:rolleyes:

let me make somepoints according to what you said .

1- i am against nerfs, players have devoted time to their characters and they should not pay for devs mistakes and misconceptions

3- i am anhi but i LOVE carnage the only reason i dumped it is that pvp has too much latency and due to latency you are losing some really precious time out of the 6sec armor penetration gore provides you.(it gives immolbilize efefct to ravage which is very important!)

4- i dont bother that rage resets when i die , but it is unacceptable to lose the rage i builded when you switch from attacker to defender(and viseversa) at voidstar since that pause works to everyother classes advance.

 

the reasoning behind my suggestion is that even if it happens it will still require skill to be utilized properly.

the i reason i like even more the idea of a legit stealth is that it feel so marauder(watch sw character prog vid:rolleyes:) and cause i am very confident it is gonna make mara the most exciting classes and i love the idea of dealing the finishing blow comming out of stealth, thats my opinion maybe i am out of mind or stupid:p

 

1. Sometimes nerfs are needed, right now the power of healers is exceptional and trust me, I know my alt is a healer.

 

2.... is missing?

 

3. don't see how the latency would be anymore debilitating for carnage then other specs, the fact carnage has the lowest survivability on the other hand I can see having a real effect. Sure WZs right now have some issues between where players see each other which can annoyingly make things like force choke, break. I mean rage needs to actually land smash, that's got much more potential to have lag issues then gore.

 

4. I already said no rage regen is fine. As a marauder sometimes using the actual environment as camouflage is an idea to use so that you can start with force charge (3~4 rage there), just remember when you can see them on the mini-map, they can see you unless you use force camo of course. I was on about Fury which you need to build literally to full to be able to use. Just like we suffer from losing rage when standing around, other classes suffer from drawn out fights since they start full but do not have the tools to regen their resources like we do.

Edited February 11, 2012 by nonumbers