alienstalker Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 only justification for them getting married. i havent watched that one in a long time. its my least favorite of all the movies. id have to refresh my memory It's not their only justification. Love is their justicication. Not lust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbjorn Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 love doesnt make sense to me in this case. hell it could b a really bad love story and i may be wrong on that. However my version still makes sense in the movie and just makes more sense in general. it also feel much more real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) its implied that yoda did not agree with the council in that very conversation. No, he says "Agree with you the council does." (Emphasis added.) Second he caves because he sensed qui gons defiance in him. even with out consent obiwan woulda trained him. Without their knowledge? Impossible. So even if Obi-Wan goes behind their backs, he'd only get caught and then shut down by the council, if they chose to. Those don't have to kill or imprison Obi-Wan, and no one suggested they needed to. The council was reluctant to allow the training but had to so they could all keep an eye on anakin. So hey, here's something: this is almost a decent point. The only major problem is it's not in the movie. It should have been, I like it, but it's not. You could have had a conversation with, say, Yoda and Mace where they agree with you; "Better to have him here where we can keep an eye on him. If we train him, we can at least maybe avert the disaster I sense in this kid. If we send him back into the world, anything might happen. We can't kill him because we're not monsters. So I guess this is the least bad option." But, damn it, there's nothing like this on the screen. Saying "Can't you just imagine it?" is excuse making for bad story telling. What is on the screen is just a simple 180 by Yoda, with no explanation given. And we're just getting started. Edited February 8, 2012 by JustTed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienstalker Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 love doesnt make sense to me in this case. hell it could b a really bad love story and i may be wrong on that. However my version still makes sense in the movie and just makes more sense in general. it also feel much more real Padme is not a ****. And plus sorry to sound like just ted here, but girls just aren't like that, they don't just go around sleeping with everyone. Maybe a few but Padme was obviously not like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbjorn Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 No, he says "Agree with you the council does." (Emphasis added.) meant yoda doesnt agree but the rest of the council does. As he sits there trying one last time to talk obiwan out of it b4 telling him the councils decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichijin Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 You could have had a conversation with, say, Yoda and Mace where they agree with you; "Better to have him here where we can keep an eye on him. If we train him, we can at least maybe avert the disaster I sense in this kid. If we send him back into the world, anything might happen. We can't kill him because we're not monsters. So I guess this is the least bad option." But, damn it, there's nothing like this on the screen. Saying "Can't you just imagine it?" is excuse making for bad story telling. What is on the screen is a just a simple 180 by Yoda, with no explanation given. And we're just getting started. And why would they HAVE to tell Obi-wan this? What makes him privy to this information? There is no reason for Yoda or anyone on the council to tel him this. Telling someone they are being watched does more harm than good anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 meant yoda doesnt agree but the rest of the council does I'm not sure where you're getting this from. It's not in the dialog. And even if it were true (it's not), why does the rest of the council change their minds? We're not told. See my previous post. I like your suggested answer. The only problem with it is it's not in the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienstalker Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I'm not sure where you're getting this from. It's not in the dialog. And even if it were true (it's not), why does the rest of the council change their minds? We're not told. See my previous post. I like your suggested answer. The only problem with it is it's not in the movie. he says agree with you the council does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbjorn Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Without their knowledge? Impossible. So even if Obi-Wan goes behind their backs, he'd only get caught and then shut down by the council, if they chose to. Those don't have to kill or imprison Obi-Wan, and no one suggested they needed to. yes because no force user has been trained behind the councils back b4. if the council decided no to train anakin and obiwan did anyway their only option as jedi would be to kick obiwan out of the jedi order. obiwan would then be free to do what he pleased with anakin which woulda been far more dangerous. at that point u woulda had a disgruntled (brand new) jedi knight training a boy u sensed great danger in and they wouldnt of been able to keep tabs on him. the jedi are known for their inaction and apathy. anakin woulda have been trained with or without the councils concent. obiwan even tells yoda he will do it with or without their concent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 And why would they HAVE to tell Obi-wan this? What makes him privy to this information? There is no reason for Yoda or anyone on the council to tel him this. Telling someone they are being watched does more harm than good anyways. Okay then. You realize, I'm really talking about telling the audience this, right, not Obi-Wan per se? Fine, don't tell Obi-Wan. Just let us see the conversation between Mace and Yoda so we know what the heck is going on, instead of having to make up our own explanations. We're simply not told, and that's just bad writing. It makes the character's actions seem senseless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbjorn Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 im not defending lucas. i hate lucas. im defending my view of what i got out of the stories. if yoda did agree with the council y would he bother to talk obiwan out of it right b4 telling him that he was gonna get his way? for ***** and giggles? he was hoping obiwan would back down and let it go thus rendering the councils judgement meaningless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbjorn Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) again movie could be done far better. things could have been spelled out better. but i feel it was all there still, whether lucas intended it to b or not Edited February 8, 2012 by Solbjorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 yes because no force user has been trained behind the councils back b4. "This one, a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away to the future, the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmm." ~Master Yoda. It's in Empire. You wouldn't understand. But yeah, I'm sure Obi-Wan could have ran around behind Yoda's back for decades. Meanwhile, this was the smaller of the two points, and I'm not even fussed about it. The council changes their decision for no reason we are told. I know we can all make up our own reason why they might have changed their minds. We're not told, and it makes the character's actions look senseless. It's bad writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 im not defending lucas. i hate lucas. im defending my view of what i got out of the stories. if yoda did agree with the council y would he bother to talk obiwan out of it right b4 telling him that he was gonna get his way? for ***** and giggles? he was hoping obiwan would back down and let it go thus rendering the councils judgement meaningless Again... maybe. But you're speculating. We're not told this. And that's bad writing and it makes for a bad story that doesn't make sense on it's own, but that I have to make sense of after the fact. That sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCRust Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Why do they love each other? BECAUSE GEORGE LUCAS SAYS SO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbjorn Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 it should have been. im not defending how the movie was made or the script. (still dont like lucas) i do like star wars and im defending the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbjorn Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 the story is there and make sense. Lucas just dropped the ball on telling it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 it should have been. im not defending how the movie was made or the script. (still dont like lucas) i do like star wars and im defending the story. The story also doesn't make sense. Plinkett goes into this in depth. Not little things about water breathing, but the Big Plot Points. Like... How does forcing a Queen to sign a treaty somehow make your occupation legal? You're forcing her to sign the document against her will. Surely that invalidates it, no? And if you're just gonna force her, why not just forge the damn thing? This is all stolen from Plinkett. This is in the very beginning of Episode I, was the first thing that popped into my head, and it just gets worse and worse and worse. By the time we're at Episode III, we get the Emperor, standing in front of the whole Senate, saying pretty much the following: "Hey, you know the Jedi, the guardians of peace and justice for the last thousand generations? Yeah, turns out they were all jerks who tried to kill and overthrow me. I have no proof, and I suddenly look like the Devil's pool boy, but you should all totally take my word for it. By the way, I'm declaring myself Emperor for life. Hand over the entire galaxy to me 'cause I just told you this fantastical story with no evidence whatsoever." I can do this all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erstok Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 He loved her cause her skin wasn't rough like sand which is on Tattooine. I'm sorry but Anakin just droned on about everything. Like Samus in Other M. Uninteresting and completely unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbjorn Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The story also doesn't make sense. Plinkett goes into this in depth. Not little things about water breathing, but the Big Plot Points. Like... How does forcing a Queen to sign a treaty somehow make your occupation legal? You're forcing her to sign the document against her will. Surely that invalidates it, no? And if you're just gonna force her, why not just forge the damn thing? This is all stolen from Plinkett. This is in the very beginning of Episode I, was the first thing that popped into my head, and it just gets worse and worse and worse. By the time we're at Episode III, we get the Emperor, standing in front of the whole Senate, saying pretty much the following: "Hey, you know the Jedi, the guardians of peace and justice for the last thousand generations? Yeah, turns out they were all jerks who tried to kill and overthrow me. I have no proof, and I suddenly look like the Devil's pool boy, but you should all totally take my word for it. By the way, I'm declaring myself Emperor for life. Hand over the entire galaxy to me 'cause I just told you this fantastical story with no evidence whatsoever." I can do this all day. haha i unfortunately cant. not sure the treaty would make anything truly legal. Sidious was smart, i feel the whole plan was to kill quigon and obiwon. this is speculation based off of the books but the sith empire could not sit as supreme chancellor without quigon noticing. several examples in books indicate this and it is mentioned slightly in the movie. on the droid ship obiwan says he senses something dark far away and quigon tells him to keep his mind on where they were and what they were doing. the council was big on trying to see the future but paid little attention to the present. quigon was all about the present and would have foiled palpatine if left alive. quigons death would also lead to the turning of count dooku who grew fed up with the jedi after the death of quigon. quigons death was vital. obiwan was left alive however. and even in the movies u can feel how much palpatine wanted obiwan to die. he was the only thing keeping anakin from turning sooner. the trade federation were used as pawns to create a conflict that would lead to the death of quigon. and several times in history republics have become empires. he scares the senate into believing the jedi have gone rogue. but then offers himself up as a hero who as an emperor would have the speed to make decisions to put an end to the threat quickly. and he also promises to give up his power when the galaxy was at peace. whether or not this were explained well in the movies or not they are explained by the books. thus having the story make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooba Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 It's because Hayden Christensen is hotter than fudging hell... no ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbjorn Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 if you look at the movies theyre just summaries of a much larger story. read the books then tell me the story doesnt make sense. he crams too much into a short movie. the movies should have been made based off of each individual book rather than this episode format Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 whether or not this were explained well in the movies or not they are explained by the books. thus having the story make sense Unfortunately, this doesn't rescue the story in the film. If I have to read a book to understand your film, you've made a bad film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbjorn Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 ok trash lucas and his movie making. the books are quite good though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 ok trash lucas and his movie making. the books are quite good though. I believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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