Sage/Sorc needs a nerf!!

[Orangerascal]

Ill take that trade in a heartbeat, you can have all my heavy armor, plus some extra

 

k let's swap characters then pm your account details

[Draethyl]

No matter what class I play, the opposing team's Sage/Sorc players always dominate. The problem is, they just have too many tools at their disposal. Despite wearing light armor, they're extremely durable because of their bubble. If a fight goes south, they can always pop their in-combat sprint and run away. And with an insta-slow on top of the passive snare on their rocks/lightning, it's impossible to run from one unless you happen to catch them in CC with their CC-breaker on cooldown. And even standing toe-to-toe with them doesn't work, because they have DoTs that allow them to deal fire-and-forget damage, then pillar hump the nearest LoS object while they heal themselves.

 

There's no warzone they don't excel in, and there's no 1v1 fight they can't win. And to top it off, they can still fall back and heal their teammates in group situations if their DPS isn't doing the job.

 

The Sage/Sorc is just good at too many things, and has way too many tools for combat disruption and soft crowd control. This is a constant the holds true in my mind no matter which class I face off against them with.

 

And this doesn't take into account that all of their damage bypasses almost all types of armor and defenses.

 

Let the flame war commence!

 

If played well they are a truely scary class thats for sure. I have played against a few sorcs who excel at the class and yea good luck on killing them. Though, before we cry nerf lets all try and ask for buffs for those classes less fortunate then the sorcs/sages.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Draethyl

[Fredcat]

I definitely think their damage reduction and hit points need a nerf. Their shield is way too powerful and they should not have nearly as many hit points as a tank. They are cloth wearing casters and should be a glass cannon.

[Orangerascal]

I definitely think their damage reduction and hit points need a nerf. Their shield is way too powerful and they should not have nearly as many hit points as a tank. They are cloth wearing casters and should be a glass cannon.

 

Where do you guys get this stuff

 

Pro-tip: Effective hp on a 15000 heath sorc with 20% reduction is 18750. Effective health on a merc with 35% is 23k. This means the dps needs to do 22.66% more damage to a merc to kill them. That's huge in pvp. Let's not even mention how good this scales when you get heals. Put it this way ... there is a reason why a sorc runs away.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Ageizm]

Nerfing Sorcerers will never happen. The class is built perfectly.

[Darth_Philar]

So the years of Design Testing, Alpha Testing, and Beta Testing - all of it filled with scientific metrics and even closer focused observation was suddenly completely different after a few weeks of Live?

 

You trying to tell me that over half the population playing Sage/Sorcs crying for a nerf, which stated the direct opposite of what all those years of metric based focus testing had confirmed time and time again, had nothing to do with their knee-jerk reaction of a hack-job on that nerf?

 

Sure... what world are you living in?

 

Again, you suffer from confirmation bias.

 

You believe it to be true, therefore you interpret reality to conform to your already existing belief.

 

You don't have access to those metrics, so you are not able to factually state any of what you posted.

[jizerai]

I definitely think their damage reduction and hit points need a nerf. Their shield is way too powerful and they should not have nearly as many hit points as a tank. They are cloth wearing casters and should be a glass cannon.

 

My damage reduction is not even 20%. The shield drops from 1-3 attacks, depending on lucky crits and/or what attack it was. It's a life-saver in certain situations, but it's not an impregnable Destroyer-shield that pewpew's lazorz around it. Get your facts straight.

 

I would also like to point out that the best use of that shield is not what you apparently think it is; shielding myself. It's the fact that it can be used to shield others.

[Bigtarr]

Listen, if you wanna do lots of healing and lots of DPS then don't just focus your fire on 1 person.

 

Take your AOE heals and dps abilities and go for groups of players/team members/enemies. That's how people do so much dps and healing.

 

Trust me as a Sith Warrior I run into a huge fight where there are 5-6 enemies. /SMASH! 2k, 3k, 3k, 4k,3.5k, 1k = 16.5k of damage in one smash!

 

boom you just got at least two dps metals! Throw up a shield on an ally that is getting swarmed and you get 2 more metals!

 

More metals = more valor as well

[sithgrizley]

I like how everyone assumes all inquisitor/consular icons on the scoreboard are sorc/sage.

 

Anyway, I play a sorc. I am full madness spec. I lack multiple CC abilities that many claim we all have. I dont have the bubble that stuns and i dont have the knockback root. Not all are hybrid spec.

 

If anything, all they need to do is rearrange the trees to make some of those abilities higher up so people choose which they want.

 

It's not hard to tell the difference.

 

I would say Sage/Sorc are probably 90% of the Inqis/Consulars out there. Assassins are widely agreed to be if anything slightly underpowered, especially after all of their subspecs were removed.

 

After the Sorc hybrid specs are removed then maybe we can revisit the possibility of them being balanced. It could be that's all they need, it could be they need a little more tweaking up and down.

 

Right now Sorcs just have way way way way too much utility and control considering they are the hands down best healers and top teir dps too. Resolve could help with that if it gets revisited so it actually works, but right now 2 things wins BGs. Healing and CC. One class and one class only is stacked with those.

[sithgrizley]

if hybrid specs are a problem. Then they will get corrected, but they will be buffed in another area to compensate.

Notice what they did with the Assassins.

They nerfed stance dancing, nerfed hybrid Raze specs, but buffed the entire madness tree.

 

I think they will move the AoE root from overload higher, and move the 20% bubble higher.

 

 

but when hybrids are nerfed, be prepared for another tree to be buffed.

 

They buffed assassins when they removed the hybrid specs? Really?

 

They increased proc rates but then added fairly long internal cooldowns so it's a net nerf, but more predictable. Removed the ability for Death Field to crit and made the healing % based instead of flat, which only works out if you're a tank, in the same patch they made it so tanks can't have it.

 

I would love to see Sorcs get similar buffs when their hybrid specs get removed. Remember Assassins were at best a middle of the pack class when they got those "buffs" and Sorcs are unquestionably the strongest. Be afraid of your "buffs", be very afraid.

[sithgrizley]

Where do you guys get this stuff

 

Pro-tip: Effective hp on a 15000 heath sorc with 20% reduction is 18750. Effective health on a merc with 35% is 23k. This means the dps needs to do 22.66% more damage to a merc to kill them. That's huge in pvp. Let's not even mention how good this scales when you get heals. Put it this way ... there is a reason why a sorc runs away.

 

Even assuming your numbers...

 

They fail on so very many levels. Lets see what happens if we add in a shield...

 

Sorc EH = 22250 Oh wow, it's less than 1000 less than your claimed EH for the Merc.

 

What if the fight lasts 20 seconds?

 

Sorc EH - 25750?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Wow it's over 2k higher than the Merc, plus he a crapton of instant cast CC and utility.

 

Every time you guys post it just makes it more and more blatantly obvious that you need looked at. You claim you're squishy to make up for the incredible amount of defensive utility you have, yet you're no more squishy than anyone else. You have hands down the best defensive cooldowns and get this... YOU'RE NOT A TANK CLASS!

 

I think moving some of the defensive utility either higher in the tree or to the assassin AC only would be a big step in the right direction. The most difficult class to kill shouldn't be the one that you need to kill most.

[Sirolos]

A Good Assassin can do that and heal now that they buffed madness healing

http://imageshack.us/f/215/700p.png/

 

^

Yes they buffed madness..

 

Its not hard to average 200-300k damage as a madness assassin. Nor is it hard to survive as one.

 

but they are of course underpowered

[Raice]

Again, you suffer from confirmation bias.

 

You believe it to be true, therefore you interpret reality to conform to your already existing belief.

 

You don't have access to those metrics, so you are not able to factually state any of what you posted.

 

Neither do you. All we can do is observe the evidence and come to a conclusion. Mine makes more sense , however, because it factors in the probability of someone just making a bad call after a number of people apply pressure. I'll take the data collected over years of focus testing with data backing up the original design over a few weeks of anger fueled complaints any day of the week.

 

But go ahead - continue to think it's just "confirmation bias." The data and the facts are actually on my side with this one, though.

[Bigtarr]

It's not hard to tell the difference.

 

I would say Sage/Sorc are probably 90% of the Inqis/Consulars out there. Assassins are widely agreed to be if anything slightly underpowered, especially after all of their subspecs were removed.

 

After the Sorc hybrid specs are removed then maybe we can revisit the possibility of them being balanced. It could be that's all they need, it could be they need a little more tweaking up and down.

 

Right now Sorcs just have way way way way too much utility and control considering they are the hands down best healers and top teir dps too. Resolve could help with that if it gets revisited so it actually works, but right now 2 things wins BGs. Healing and CC. One class and one class only is stacked with those.

 

What the heck is BG's?

[Eltohan]

What the heck is BG's?

BattleGrounds. WarZones

 

I agree that contrary to other classes, sorcerers/sages, being dps or healers can be stacked and their efficiency is exponently better.

 

Stack 5 marauders or juggs in a Civil War Alderan or VoidStar and tell me it's OP.

 

But, as someone else said, they won't be nerf'd. Too much people rolled a sorc already. You don't want to lose subs do you?

[Bigtarr]

BattleGrounds. WarZones

 

I agree that contrary to other classes, sorcerers/sages, being dps or healers can be stacked and their efficiency is exponently better.

 

Stack 5 marauders or juggs in a Civil War Alderan or VoidStar and tell me it's OP.

 

But, as someone else said, they won't be nerf'd. Too much people rolled a sorc already. You don't want to lose subs do you?

 

This is WoW, so roll your eyes all you want! I hope they get stuck where you can't see. lol

 

[Tsubodia]

I definitely think their damage reduction and hit points need a nerf. Their shield is way too powerful and they should not have nearly as many hit points as a tank. They are cloth wearing casters and should be a glass cannon.

 

oh wow.. really.. you need a serious dose of l2p. Sorcs/sages are rediculusly easy to bring down. In my premade me and a assassin friend run as a pair and nuke down any sage we see in under 3seconds. Once that bubble is down they are a free kill. If you cannot kill them then i suggest you stop being bad.

 

The shield is very weak and in FULL bm gear will absorb maybe 4k (an average crit from another bm geared player) hp wise they dont get that high. and why should one class be automatically given less hp than another? you do realise if they did that they would have to superbuff damage to compensate.

 

should i also mention that sorcs/sages have littel to no burst at all and the only reason for the high damage output is due to aoe spam, but then your probably too busy qqing to notice that

 

@all the ppl crying ove tele throw and FL.. you have an interupt. USE IT! these abilities are a sorc/sages main filler and a good player will use them only as much as necessary.

 

you ever had a sith warrior leap at you in hutball up the ledges (rooting you) then force push you from your safe spot to then leap right back onto your *** (again rooting you) **** its not like sorcs/sages have any sort of burst damage. If you cant deal with them then 1)dont go at them 1v1 (the amount of random morons i destroy who try to nuke me on their own 2) dont use high damage abilities into my shield unless you know you can take it with 1 hit.

 

There are plenty more worse things in this game that need nerfing/buffing/fixing before you start crying about the only class that has an element of balance.

 

@ those saying sorc dps heals are better than everyone elses dps heals. they are not. me and a BH in my guild had a race to 75k healing done the other day. guess who won.. your complaining about sorcs "always getting 5k heals medal waaa" i have to stack my crit + stim + surge relic to ensure that. i dont just randomly run around free critting 5k+ heals. not to mention the cast tie is huge.

 

Too many people complain and just dont play properly. tell me.. how many times have you allowed that sage/sorc to stand in the open in voidstar and just dps/heal... I bet a **** load. i see people do it myself. They then complain "*********** op sages" when it takes no effort to kill them

 

A good sorc/sage you will have a hard time to take down as they will use every ability available to them. a bad sorc.sage (90% of the ppl playing the class) stand in the open loling whilst you do nothing about it and dont even bother to utilise their utility.

 

In the end i think most of you need to look at your own ability/inability to play before calling nerfs

[TetraCleric]

oh wow.. really.. you need a serious dose of l2p. Sorcs/sages are rediculusly easy to bring down. In my premade me and a assassin friend run as a pair and nuke down any sage we see in under 3seconds. Once that bubble is down they are a free kill. If you cannot kill them then i suggest you stop being bad.

 

The shield is very weak and in FULL bm gear will absorb maybe 4k (an average crit from another bm geared player) hp wise they dont get that high. and why should one class be automatically given less hp than another? you do realise if they did that they would have to superbuff damage to compensate.

 

should i also mention that sorcs/sages have littel to no burst at all and the only reason for the high damage output is due to aoe spam, but then your probably too busy qqing to notice that

 

@all the ppl crying ove tele throw and FL.. you have an interupt. USE IT! these abilities are a sorc/sages main filler and a good player will use them only as much as necessary.

 

you ever had a sith warrior leap at you in hutball up the ledges (rooting you) then force push you from your safe spot to then leap right back onto your *** (again rooting you) **** its not like sorcs/sages have any sort of burst damage. If you cant deal with them then 1)dont go at them 1v1 (the amount of random morons i destroy who try to nuke me on their own 2) dont use high damage abilities into my shield unless you know you can take it with 1 hit.

 

There are plenty more worse things in this game that need nerfing/buffing/fixing before you start crying about the only class that has an element of balance.

 

@ those saying sorc dps heals are better than everyone elses dps heals. they are not. me and a BH in my guild had a race to 75k healing done the other day. guess who won.. your complaining about sorcs "always getting 5k heals medal waaa" i have to stack my crit + stim + surge relic to ensure that. i dont just randomly run around free critting 5k+ heals. not to mention the cast tie is huge.

 

Too many people complain and just dont play properly. tell me.. how many times have you allowed that sage/sorc to stand in the open in voidstar and just dps/heal... I bet a **** load. i see people do it myself. They then complain "*********** op sages" when it takes no effort to kill them

 

A good sorc/sage you will have a hard time to take down as they will use every ability available to them. a bad sorc.sage (90% of the ppl playing the class) stand in the open loling whilst you do nothing about it and dont even bother to utilise their utility.

 

In the end i think most of you need to look at your own ability/inability to play before calling nerfs

 

Yea but nobody else can kill sorcs, so obviously sorcs are super op.

 

/sarcasm

 

(great post though)

[L-RANDLE]

Even assuming your numbers...

 

They fail on so very many levels. Lets see what happens if we add in a shield...

 

Sorc EH = 22250 Oh wow, it's less than 1000 less than your claimed EH for the Merc.

 

What if the fight lasts 20 seconds?

 

Sorc EH - 25750?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Wow it's over 2k higher than the Merc, plus he a crapton of instant cast CC and utility.

 

Every time you guys post it just makes it more and more blatantly obvious that you need looked at. You claim you're squishy to make up for the incredible amount of defensive utility you have, yet you're no more squishy than anyone else. You have hands down the best defensive cooldowns and get this... YOU'RE NOT A TANK CLASS!

 

I think moving some of the defensive utility either higher in the tree or to the assassin AC only would be a big step in the right direction. The most difficult class to kill shouldn't be the one that you need to kill most.

 

Dear Juggs/Maur/Sents/Guards,

 

The funny thing is we socs/sages don't really do anything well besides having quite a few AoE abilities. Most people on this post confuse variety for overpowered.

 

1. Yeah..... its great to stun a person, then insta-cast force lift (and stun on break), but how much HP have you lost because of that? VERY LITTLE!! Like 500HP...Not 5k, FIVE HUNDRED

 

2. Yeah... its great that my force wave/force quake/force in balance can make up for my shear lack of DPS ability and get my "TOTAL DAMAGE" on par in a PvP gameboard total, but in a 1v1 scenario DOES 2k crit = 5-7k crit? NOPE!

 

3. Yeah its great being at the 30m range with my spam TK throw with no CD(and auto-slow)..... Oh yeah I forgot, most classes have some sort of mitigation for that like Obliterate...so much for keeping that Jugg/Maurad at bay...

 

4. Yeah, its great to have light armor. Need I say more??????

 

5. Yeah, its great to throw out some Heals to teammates, but 2-3 sec cast and easily interrupted, not very useful unless no enemies are around...

 

6. Yeah, it's great being the annoying little brother who can make your life tough on the battlefield, but how much actual damage can I really cause? NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE IT WORTHY OF A NERF!!!

 

 

Sincerly,

High-Level Sages

 

 

Umm yeah...

Edited March 7, 2012 by L-RANDLE

[L-RANDLE]

Oh yeah,

Here is a good request for all, but let's get some honesty here:

 

 

 

ANYONE WHO HAS ROLLED A SAGE/SORC ALT AND THINK THEY ARE OVERPOWERED (WHEN COMPARED TO THEIR MAIN), PLEASE STAND UP!!!

 

 

 

 

L-Randle<-----------Dont think I will get one response on this one.....

[Tsubodia]

Every time you guys post it just makes it more and more blatantly obvious that you need looked at. You claim you're squishy to make up for the incredible amount of defensive utility you have, yet you're no more squishy than anyone else. You have hands down the best defensive cooldowns and get this... YOU'RE NOT A TANK CLASS!

 

i only just saw this. You smoking crack dude? "hands down the nest defensive cooldowns".. Oh my.. really... so 1 bubble that absobs like 3k dmg every 20seconds is the best defensive cooldown in the game? Or do you mean that super awesome light armour? defensive utility? you must mean that super long cast heal that crits for 4k right.. but you totally dont have interrupts and stuns to stop that. Or you mean the force sprint? but wait you totally don't have stuns to stop that.

 

I just despair at the intelligence (or lack of) of people nowadays

 

Just got out of another huttball which ended up as 2 of my guilds premades against each other + some randoms. i wonder who who got insta tunneled by my enemy guild team.. Oh you guessed it. Now guess how long i lived. But wait. by most peopls logic that must make both of those two overpowered as i couldnt 1v2 beat them. nerf BH and maraurders! (See whut i did there)

[Slackfumasta]

Sorc/Sage hybrid specs are ridiculous - no one skill makes them overpowered, it's the combination of everything, and then multiply that by the sheer numbers of them running around.

 

Plus, they are head and shoulders above everybody else in huttball due to shield + sprint.

 

To me, they are double plus ungood since as a combat medic trooper I don't have a true interrupt

[Mavnas]

Not sure why people like you always make these claims, "It's pretty hard to do anything with 4 sages throwing rocks at your face or pushing you away as soon as you charge into them"

 

4 of ANY CLASS on you is going to be "pretty hard".

 

Cool story otherwise.

 

Well, to be fair with 4 snipers on you, you'd be back at your respawn so fast you'd barely miss a beat there.

 

The reason to spam lightning/rocks is that it's our highest DPS attack, not counting ones with 15 sec cooldowns. (Well, ok, I don't know about the tops of the trees.)

[Tsubodia]

Oh yeah,

Here is a good request for all, but let's get some honesty here:

 

 

 

ANYONE WHO HAS ROLLED A SAGE/SORC ALT AND THINK THEY ARE OVERPOWERED (WHEN COMPARED TO THEIR MAIN), PLEASE STAND UP!!!

 

 

 

 

L-Randle<-----------Dont think I will get one response on this one.....

 

a lot of people will agree with you. BUT said people are likely in low level wz, which considering certain classes dont get any decent abilities till late on will make certain classes shine. If you have issues with a sorc/sage. go beat it with a stick and it dies. Ppl claim they are op because normally they are left alone to just dps away. Yes 4+ sorcs/sages on your team at once is **** annoying but it doesn't mean you cant stop it.

 

Survival/burst and single target damaged dependant on certain procs are all things you sacrifice for utility depending how you build your spec. Ive just had to go through 7 whole fl channnels to get a single wrath proc. (consider that fl does maybe 2k damage vs a decent geared target unless i crit every tick, this being over about 2.6 seconds) Thats a lot of standing CHANNELING just to get the procs i need to fire off some better damage.

[Tsubodia]

Sorc/Sage hybrid specs are ridiculous - no one skill makes them overpowered, it's the combination of everything, and then multiply that by the sheer numbers of them running around.

 

Plus, they are head and shoulders above everybody else in huttball due to shield + sprint.

 

To me, they are double plus ungood since as a combat medic trooper I don't have a true interrupt

 

 

medic troopers are my worst nightmare.. i find them hardest of anything to kill as a sorc outside smuggle healers. As for hutball. Assasins aslo have shield + force sprint. and the best class there by far is jugg/(sentinel?) force leap + freindly leap + force leap cd reset from force push. ive had a guildy litteraly jump from ball point to cap.

 

Yes "sorc ball" as my guild calls it can e frustrating but their are plenty of other classes just as strong (not to mention 90% of sorcs/sages dont even know what exctradition is or does)

 

edit just to add you cant call a class op just beause several of them together make them strong. by that notion every class is OP. you ever had 2 snipers or 2 retarded grav round spammers on you at the same time. If you live more than 3 seconds they are doing it wrong. That argument wont wash.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Tsubodia