Vannila WoW vs SWTOR

[DarthKong]

You aren't making any sense.

 

Reread page 5. It'll come to you.

[kevlarto]

vannila wow, most boing game i ever played, thats my opinion see how that works.. Tor = fun and has depth to it, , I had no fun in wow at all.. I happy wow has millions of playes that found the game fun good for them.. I couls care less really..

[JustTed]

Again, Vanilla WoW had one raid, one instanced raid boss, and three max level dungeons.

 

This game dwarfs that.

Edited February 3, 2012 by JustTed

[Qoojo]

Good thing you mention only vanilla WoW, because SWTOR doesn't a change against Tutty Fruity WoW. Edited February 3, 2012 by Qoojo

[Buur]

Reread page 5. It'll come to you.

 

Nope, you have flown too far off point trying to make some argument that isn't at all relevant to what was being discussed.

 

Someone said WoW shipped with no raids. It was a patently false statement. It shipped with two PvE raids. You can try and distort the definition of a raid however you please to fit your weak argument but the facts are the facts.

[Gunzwei]

No, they weren't. They were both in at release. It takes about 10 seconds of googling to figure this out.

 

The beta versions were in at release. MC and Onyxia were not in there "true" state till patch 1.3 which put in caps on the number of players who could raid them, aka the birth of 40-man.

-

 

As for the OP. WoW was a mess at release but so were most MMO's prior to it. For example EQ at release didn't even have most the high level abilities in the game for some classes. WoW's competitor EQ2 also released in a fairly horrid state with nasty memory leaks and most areas being way overtuned.

 

For SWTOR it's probably better to compare its release to more recent games like Aion or Rift rather than games that came out 7-8 years ago.

[Yfelsung]

You directly responded to my post about raids. I didn't say anything about dungeons. You didn't use an example with the same logic. You didn't use logic at all.

 

*rubs temples*

 

Okay sparky, let's do this slow for you.

 

Your logic was this:

 

Onyxia is a raid because A) It required 40 people and B) It was in a dungeon (which is a WoW word for instance).

 

So we then have the statement "A raid is content that requires 40 people and is in an instance".

 

Following so far?

 

So if 40 people in an instance = raid, then 5 people in an instance = dungeon.

 

Savvy?

 

Same string of logic, different topics. Understand?

 

So, the logical arguments you used to indicate that Onyxia is a raid are the same logical arguments I used to dictate that SWTOR has over 100 dungeons.

 

Do you understand how the logic string is independent of the point. The logic can be implemented into other arguments.

 

Your logic was "Because A and B, C"

 

I used the same logic, "Because A and B, C" I even used the same A and B (A being group size dictates status and B being that the location of the content within an instance dictates status).

 

Hence, if the statement "Onyxia is a raid because it took 40 people and was in an instance" is true, then "X Heroic is a dungeon because it requires a group of people and is in an instance" is also true.

 

Savvy?

[Buur]

*rubs temples*

 

Okay sparky, let's do this slow for you.

 

Your logic was this:

 

Onyxia is a raid because A) It required 40 people and B) It was in a dungeon (which is a WoW word for instance).

 

So we then have the statement "A raid is content that requires 40 people and is in an instance".

 

Following so far?

 

So if 40 people in an instance = raid, then 5 people in an instance = dungeon.

 

Savvy?

 

Same string of logic, different topics. Understand?

 

So, the logical arguments you used to indicate that Onyxia is a raid are the same logical arguments I used to dictate that SWTOR has over 100 dungeons.

 

Do you understand how the logic string is independent of the point. The logic can be implemented into other arguments.

 

Your logic was "Because A and B, C"

 

I used the same logic, "Because A and B, C" I even used the same A and B (A being group size dictates status and B being that the location of the content within an instance dictates status).

 

Hence, if the statement "Onyxia is a raid because it took 40 people and was in an instance" is true, then "X Heroic is a dungeon because it requires a group of people and is in an instance" is also true.

 

Savvy?

 

I wasn't talking about dungeons. Why do you keep bringing them up? I wasn't comparing amount of content. Go argue with someone who was.

[JustTed]

Nope, you have flown too far off point trying to make some argument that isn't at all relevant to what was being discussed.

 

Someone said WoW shipped with no raids.

 

I stipulated to this and you ignored it.

 

Granted the content you mention, this game still dwarfs vanilla WoW by a wide, wide margin. That's the topic.

 

Vanilla WoW had one raid, one instanced raid boss, and three max level dungeons.

[Mechavomit]

SWTOR is better!

I never played Wow, but that doesn't change the above fact!

 

[Buur]

The beta versions were in at release. MC and Onyxia were not in there "true" state till patch 1.3 which put in caps on the number of players who could raid them, aka the birth of 40-man.

-

 

As for the OP. WoW was a mess at release but so were most MMO's prior to it. For example EQ at release didn't even have most the high level abilities in the game for some classes. WoW's competitor EQ2 also released in a fairly horrid state with nasty memory leaks and most areas being way overtuned.

 

For SWTOR it's probably better to compare its release to more recent games like Aion or Rift rather than games that came out 7-8 years ago.

 

You could never take more than 40 people into MC or Onyxia. They eventually put caps on how many people you could take into certain end game dungeons, if that is what you mean.

[Buur]

I stipulated to this and you ignored it.

 

Granted the content you mention, this game still dwarfs vanilla WoW by a wide, wide margin. That's the topic.

 

Vanilla WoW had one raid, one instanced raid boss, and three max level dungeons.

 

I know. Which is why I didn't discuss it with you further. Other people seem to want to poke at facts though.

[DarthKong]

You can try and distort the definition of a raid however you please to fit your weak argument

 

As you've indeed shown.

[Yfelsung]

I wasn't talking about dungeons. Why do you keep bringing them up? I wasn't comparing amount of content. Go argue with someone who was.

 

Okay, it's abundantly obvious you don't understand the idea of a logical fallacy.

 

Carry on then.

[Jessedw]

Anyway... No, swtor world feels dead and we have no reason to go back anywhere unless we need make some dailys or whatever useless thing you want.

 

And yes, farming consumables is boring if you feel you have to do it for hours and hours to raid. And never was important in vanilla wow.

 

But at least the "world" offered something.

 

We got the FLEET..... and dungeons in other side of green gates!

 

In Vanilla wow I never went back anywhere once I leveled up and completed all the quests. As Alliance we all just hung out at ironforge and flew to the dungeons. I don't think I even went back to Kalimdor unless I was helping a guildie with something. I never had a reason to go back to any of the old content.

 

And at least they waited for my 31 days to be used before wanting my credit card.. diferent than the 30 days this guys offered and blocked acount 1 day after i bought the game, unless i enter a credit card.

 

Again this is not true, I was in WoW beta, had my copy pre ordered and had recently had my CC stolen and was waiting on the new one to arrive leaving me NO way to activate my account when I got the game. I had to goto the bank pull cash and went and bought a preloaded visa so I could start the 30 day free period...I remember it frustrating me back then...but it has been the case for every other MMO I have played so I was used to it.

 

It shipped with Onyxia and Molten Core. They were just actually challenging and people had to gear up in dungeons. They weren't cleared by fresh 60s in greens.

 

You are correct it had shipped with both of them. But the reason people don't really remember them was because they were bugged, didn't have loot tables...and both required 40 people to do a long stupid attunement quest to be able to enter their respective zones.

 

It might have been cool the first time you did it, but after having to help 100 other guildies it was a pain. I don't even remember how many BRD Windsor run I had to do for my freakin guild.

 

UBRS was 15 man, Scholmance and Start were 10 man. And the group interface? Same deal...had to spam in general...at least finding 3 other people is a lot easier than 14.

[Buur]

Okay, it's abundantly obvious you don't understand the idea of a logical fallacy.

 

Carry on then.

 

And it appears you keep wanting to discuss everything but the thing I was actually talking about.

[RyZaMa]

Reading this thread brings back great memories.

 

It's friday night and when I played vanilla WOW I had no idea what would be happening when I logged in. Would the Alliance be raiding Org, would we be organising a raid on Stormwind. Would a guildie be getting camped and need help, would TM v SS be kicking off. Would we be raiding or would we be questing.

 

I would play the AH for about 2 hours a night as the market and crafting were awesome. Planning gear was also great, farming mats, trading with other players, enchanting stuff....what a game that was, what a game.

 

When I read people posting stuff like SWTOR is better I do laugh, it's amusing.

 

I love how you act like your opinions are fact. I played Beta, and release WoW. Played it straight until the end of WOTLK with a hardcore guild on Nath with many server first kills.

 

I can stand here and tell you SWTOR world feels WAY MORE REAL, and alive to me then WoW EVER DID. The attention to detail in this game is mind blowing. Especially the combat system, how your character ACTUALLY hits it's target, does finishing moves, lightsaber holes appear on dead NPC targets. I actually feel attached to my first companion, as if he was a real person. Quests feel meaningful, have emotion, and real character. I really feel like I am in the WORLD OF STARWARS

 

Did I get any of that "real world immserive" feeling from WoW. HELL NO. So please remember that your thoughts are opinion, and I do laugh at people like you who think WoW was/is better than SWTOR.

Edited February 3, 2012 by RyZaMa

[Thelooney]

If you wish to talk about lies get your facts straight, WoW was not released with a PvP System... it came way later... and the only reason world PvP even happned was because of their honor system that was released months later in the game. At the time world pvp was the only way to gain High Warlord Status and the gear associated with it until BGs were released.

 

My god, do you even try to comprehend a reply you are quoting?

 

If you were not in a good guild at release there was no way you could do much of the end game content at all... getting 40 people together to run MC was a nightmare.. Heck for a lot of us the only raids we got to do were UBRS before it was nerfed. People seem to think that all of these things were with WoW at launch... almost all of the things people look back on did not come until later.

 

No one ran MC at release, and not even the second month. The first MC kills started happening soon after onyxia kill. World first onyxia happend ~3rd month, and that's during a time when most people were going through the joys that is Stranglethorn vale.

 

I get that you're trying to say, "wow was terribad, look at all the things I have no clues about that I'm not even providing on my reply!". But really...

[Yfelsung]

And it appears you keep wanting to discuss everything but the thing I was actually talking about.

 

I was.

 

I was showing why your reasoning as to why Onyxia was a raid is LOGICALLY FALLACIOUS.

 

I applied your logic to a different subject.

 

SWTOR DOESN'T HAVE 100+ dungeons.

 

But by your flawed Onyxia logic, it does.

 

I WAS POINTING OUT THE FLAW IN YOUR LOGIC.

 

But, of course, you don't understand this concept.

 

You think I'm arguing that SWTOR has 100+ dungeons. That's not what I'm arguing.

 

I am deconstructing your flawed logic using a ridiculous analogy.

 

Reductio ad absurdum.

 

Don't strain yourself too hard thinking about it.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Yfelsung

[Buur]

You are correct it had shipped with both of them. But the reason people don't really remember them was because they were bugged, didn't have loot tables...and both required 40 people to do a long stupid attunement quest to be able to enter their respective zones.

 

Ya, Onyxia had a very long attunement. I too did a ton of those runs for people. Spent entire weekends trying to get people attuned so we could do full guild runs. MC attunement was actually really easy. It beat running 40 people through BRD to get into MC.

[Redshirtricky]

WoW had barrens chat and Trade chat

 

SWTOR has the forums

 

Different medium, same people trying to 1-up each other through verbal PvP matches

 

Good games, good times

[Buur]

I was.

 

I was showing why your reasoning as to why Onyxia was a raid is LOGICALLY FALLACIOUS.

 

I applied your logic to a different subject.

 

SWTOR DOESN'T HAVE 100+ dungeons.

 

But by your flawed Onyxia logic, it does.

 

I WAS POINTING OUT THE FLAW IN YOUR LOGIC.

 

But, of course, you don't understand this concept.

 

You think I'm arguing that SWTOR has 100+ dungeons. That's not what I'm arguing.

 

I am deconstructing your flawed logic using a ridiculous analogy.

 

Reductio ad absurdum.

 

Don't strain yourself too hard thinking about it.

 

You are trying way too hard. Onyxia was a raid. It required a raid group. Outdoor bosses are also raids in that they require a raid group. That is kind of the end of the subject. Not sure why you keep arguing it. You seem kind of mad about it though.

[Chaoscorp]

Night and Day would be a nightmare for developers... you have to remember there are several planets in this game.. all at different positions from their galaxies suns... and multiple suns... and multiple galaxies... which means while its day on tattooine it could be night on nar shadaa which means they would almost need a whole team just to figure out day/night rotations for every planet that coincide with each other... /mindblown

[Saurakk]

WoW had night and day.

Weather.

Music all the time.

Critters.

Mobs patrolling.

Lots of crafting materials to farm... consumables. Made you walk in the world. Since herbs for many kind of potions, Felwood consumables in an awsome ambient music etc. You even had fish to get in the RL winter and summer etc

Dungeons... you had to move in the world, travel.. find enemies.

No silly loads.

 

 

I have seen rain in this game, but I could not care less about weather.

 

I turn my music off on all games.

 

Critters are "neato" once or twice, after that they blend in and are ignored anyway.

 

This game has mobs patrolling.

 

Lots of farming nodes, but also alternate methods to get them, which is one thing I have heard desired from people who mainly craft in EQ2 and WoW.

 

Dungeons, and moving? I am not getting how this game does not have any of that....it does.

 

I agree with the silly loads though...

[DarthKong]

WoW had barrens chat and Trade chat

 

SWTOR has the forums

 

Different medium, same people trying to 1-up each other through verbal PvP matches

 

Good games, good times

 

Just bored @ work this afternoon. This is adequate entertainment