NemoSD Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Sure. As said as much. But that's probably well after people all have smart phones. Does anyone have a smart phone in SWTOR? How many quests have you had to retrieve someone's "data" out in the field? All I can think about is "This schmuck doesn't have email on his personal holocommunicator?! Why is everyone's precious 'data' on a physical device that can't be transmitted and has to be carried around?" Sure, there comes a point when technological progression slows, but it would have to be way, way past this point. My Corellian Defender is a lot less advanced than an F-22 from today. And yeah, I know it's fiction. It would still be nice if it were believable fiction. Star Wars has never had wireless networking. (Wireless communication yes, but networking no.) There is a good reason for that to. Military, civilian, etc... have beautifully complex automation, that slicers can and do mess with. Even though they can not connect to things wirelessly, they are still able to get in and dick with things. It would be a lot worse if they could tap in remotely. The inability to email wirelessly is security. Furthermore, since most of you have probably never been in a situation where transmitted a massive amount of data is required... in field research, tech development, etc... images, audio, video, and sheer massive amounts of data accumulate and are unwieldy to send via email. Hard Drives, optical discs, and other physical data mediums are frequently mailed back and forth or by courier today. As for less advanced communication devices.... they are able to INSTANTLY with no lag stream a VISUAL 3 DIMENSIONAL communication from a planet in the northern most arm of the Galaxy map (Dromund Kaas) to a planet on the southern most arm of the Galaxy (Tatooine.) The time it would take us today to send a message from Earth to the nearest star, is measured in centuries. In a new hope and such, those comm devices are smaller, and can be packaged onto a small droid, and some even work on small portable devices. As to your ship being less advanced then a F-22... lets see it carry a magazine of 20+ missiles, that when fired never miss... possess a plasma magnetic acceleration device capable of sending the concentrated force of a sun at a ship (blaster/laser cannons) or fly without using traditional VTOL or aerodynamics in atmosphere, and be able to exit and go into space with out so much as a by your leave. Finally, lets see it cross the galaxy in a single lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Finally, lets see it cross the galaxy in a single lifetime. Yes. When it does that, it'll probably be capable of shooting targets outside of it's visual range. And the wireless argument is laughable. It's the same reason as everything else: it wouldn't be dramatic otherwise. Lea gets the plans for the Death Star... then promptly emails them to everyone she knows. End of movie. Oh, and email wouldn't even need to be wireless. Please stop pretending like any of this makes sense. It just doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemoSD Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Good gracious! This again? Read the thread. Does this society look like its technology covers all need? Not even close. So why are people making this non-argument? It's not so much that it's false, but that it's self-evidently false based on even a cursory glace at the world. Lordy! Your argument is fallacious and smacks of a gross lack of understanding of cultural and social processes. I will entertain it though. Our society meets ever need it currently has that CAN BE MET VIA TECHNOLOGY. Technology is a tool, the United States and similar first world nations have the technological tools to meet the needs of the greater whole of their own societies. This is a fact. The reason people in first world countries starve, suffer extreme poverty etc... are the complex results of social access, social hierarchy, uneven distribution of wealth, personal causes, and cultural taboos. If you include other cultures in the 'our' society then I will simply point out that while technology is advanced, there are still groups that are technologically in a pre-1900 state. Africa, peoples favorite go to for proof our world is broken, does not have access to a great amount of todays tech BECAUSE OF SOCIAL AND POLITICAL instability. Your argument is based on the idea that technology is magic and can thus solve all problems. Technology is a tool and solves nothing, merely provides a tool to solve problems. People, cultures, they solve problems, and right now, our tech can help to provide every need, which is food, shelter and community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Your argument is fallacious and smacks of a gross lack of understanding of cultural and social processes. I will entertain it though. You're a prequel fan, aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemoSD Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Yes. When it does that, it'll probably be capable of shooting targets outside of it's visual range. And the wireless argument is laughable. It's the same reason as everything else: it wouldn't be dramatic otherwise. Lea gets the plans for the Death Star... then promptly emails them to everyone she knows. End of movie. Oh, and email wouldn't even need to be wireless. Please stop pretending like any of this makes sense. It just doesn't. I see you skipped the part about large and complex data, such as plans for the largest space station known to any sentient species of the time for example, are frankly to large and complex to be 'emailed.' Tell you what, go to google, and then try and email the REAL blueprints of say a car, which covers engines, electrical system, etc... see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I see you skipped the part about large and complex data, such as plans for the largest space station known to any sentient species of the time for example, are frankly to large and complex to be 'emailed.' No they're not. And fine, let's assume they are. FTP? HTTP? RebelTorrent? Some equivalent in a galaxy far, far away? Nah. You have to carry it there. And there's only one copy. You know what they technological explanation for this is? None. You'll contrive one, because you're a Star Wars fan boy. It's just that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penumbri Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 So... why not set the game, say, 300 years before the films instead of 3,000? With Bioware's heavy, heavy emphasis on story, you'd think they'd hire some of those writer people. Because they do know the story, they know they had to be before the "rule of two" in order to make the game and story they want. Or all the players would draw straws to be one of those 2? In any case, SWTOR wasn't made in a 'vacuum" of story. Soon after 'A New Hope" authors began writing books. Dark Horse Comics began "Tales of the Jedi" and so on. Other books and comics have since followed. And it all goes thru Lucas Arts, which has a panel and gives the yes/no vote and maintains continuity. So they had to find a place in the Star Wars history (timeline) to tell their story. Here it is..http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_galactic_history. Add the books in http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_books and you can see the story fits where it is now. As for the "tech never improves, I put a small post with the very cliffnotes version. But people never read post, they just jump in. The "Old Republic" went thru a 'dark age' between the time of SWTOR and E1PM http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Republic_Dark_Age. The galaxy has gone thru long, almost non stop wars for a greater part of it's history. It suffered. So as a result, when Darth Bane started the 'Rule of Two" and collected and secreted as much Sith lore and tech as he could, when Palpatine began his crawl to power, it was based on the tech from THIS era, and be better than what was in use by the time of E2NW. IF you know your lore, untill the X-Wing, the Tie Fighter was unmatched. And, for example, if you've done the right quest in SWTOR, you know that they have at least prototype stealth on small shuttles. Then watch E5ESB. In running from The Executer the Millennium Falcon 'vanishes' to which Adm Piett saying "No starship that small has a cloaking system." Before claiming that BW doesn't know it's story, you need to learn what the story is yourself. And as you can see, if you take the time, there are reasons ships and other tech in 'the future' look so similar to SWTOR era. Signed Star Wars Fan Boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRik Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 becuase its a story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Kelvar Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Does anyone have a smart phone in SWTOR? They probably have datapads which are pretty close. That being said I'm unaware of any Star Wars character having a burning need to tweet what they are doing every second of the day or check the Facebook status of their friends. When you have a holocommunicator I see no reason to need to text. How many quests have you had to retrieve someone's "data" out in the field? All I can think about is "This schmuck doesn't have email on his personal holocommunicator?! Why is everyone's precious 'data' on a physical device that can't be transmitted and has to be carried around?" All our precious data is on a physical device: flash drive, internal/external hard drive, CD/DVD-Rs. Most of those things need some other device to transmit things on the web and at least in my case it would probably take more time for someone to e-mail everything to me then walk the 1-5 miles we have to do for most quests. Also give me an example of 1 person in our world who, if for example the left their external hard drive at a library would ask the librarian to e-mail all its contents and keep the hard drive instead of 1) go and pick it up (or send a friend to do so) 2) ask the hard drive to be mailed to them. My Corellian Defender is a lot less advanced than an F-22 from today. You are comparing a corvette to a fighter. A more accurate comparison would be the Defender to a B-52 or a Navy Cruiser. That being said I fail to see how the F-22 having a low radar profile and latest combat technology makes it more "advanced" them a ship with 1) shields (which would be immune to bullets and, given its a corvette, probably our most advanced conventional missiles) 2) blaster cannons 3) hyperdrive 4) space capabilities 5) presumably the latest targeting hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Why is it that industrial productivity in europe decreased when western roman empire fell? Why is it that it took over a thousand years before western europe was able to develop military technology that surpassed the military tech of the roman empire even though it's the same geographical location? ??????? Exactly! OP, if you were to use human recorded history as a reference point, you would not be so confused about what you are confused about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The galaxy has gone thru long, almost non stop wars for a greater part of it's history. And this explains why there are virtually no wireless communication options during the time of SWTOR... how? The Rule of Two doesn't apply to technological advancement, which is the subject of this thread. Also claiming that the whole galaxy just froze technologically for thousands of years is absurd, given the starting point (comparisons to our Dark Ages are silly; that took place in the absence of high technology and accessible computers for the average person). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 That being said I fail to see how the F-22 having a low radar profile and latest combat technology makes it more "advanced" them a ship with 1) shields (which would be immune to bullets and, given its a corvette, probably our most advanced conventional missiles) 2) blaster cannons 3) hyperdrive 4) space capabilities 5) presumably the latest targeting hardware. I never said it was more advanced. I said it can shoot things outside of it's visual range, which my mighty sci-fi starship can't do. And why can't it do that? No technological reason and no reason that makes sense beyond "It wouldn't be dramatic otherwise." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippentuck Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I recommend that you study more about the history of scientific methods and the difference between engineering and science. Also, the "mysteries" of ancient Egypt are only a myth, modern science can explain it and have even duplicated their methods. Its true that the basics of modern science was born in the 16th century with Galileo Galilei as one of the front figures that can be called early modern methodologists. The one who can truly be said to define modern science is Isaac Newton with his rules of reasoning. Science is hardly new, Modern science based on documentaion and empirical methods is. Now, if we want to discuss the history of science and engineering further I belive we should take it to private messages since Im pretty sure this isnt part of the original topic. It's easy to tell when someone is faking knowledge. Rip Edited February 3, 2012 by Rippentuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipher_nemo Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Star Wars has never had wireless networking. (Wireless communication yes, but networking no.) There is a good reason for that to. Military, civilian, etc... have beautifully complex automation, that slicers can and do mess with. Even though they can not connect to things wirelessly, they are still able to get in and dick with things. It would be a lot worse if they could tap in remotely. ^ This. Wireless communication, but no wireless networking. A good example is the Jedi archives. They have to talk about the archives over comm channels, but they can't access them directly by wireless means. Edited February 3, 2012 by cipher_nemo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterKayote Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) See above. Seemingly, no one can transmit simple data. Space combat with dogfights. This doesn't even happen in 2012 in the atmosphere. F-22 fighter jets shoot targets they can't even see because they're over the curve of the horizon.* * - Yeah, this wouldn't be very dramatic to watch or play, and that's the real reason things are they way they are. It's about dramatic presentation, not story sense. Whose to say it cannot be done? They can shoot ground to space Ion canons (Hoth) at starships they cant see ... im thinking anything more advanced than what we have now. Just because they dont have the same military tactics or applications we have now doesnt mean its not possible. Besides, im not in the military or anything, but I dont see how dog fights arent still happening (still there in the movies ). Edited February 3, 2012 by MasterKayote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 ^ This. Wireless communication, but no wireless networking. A good example is the Jedi archives. They have to talk about the archives over comm channels, but they can't access them directly by wireless means. Right. Which is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSchmo Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Why is this even a topic? If it didn't look comparable to the movies you'd complain it doesn't look like Star Wars. Now it looks and feels like Star Wars and you complain that it looks to simair? People confuse me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipher_nemo Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Right. Which is absurd. Star Wars is in a different galaxy, not a futuristic version of ours. Their fictional technology follows a very different curve than Earth's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 In defense of the lore, I'd like to point to the Death Star as an achievement (however evil) of technology. The impression is certainly made that the galaxy wasn't capable of such a weapon until it was designed just before the Clone Wars. I still think it's silly that there's so little development over 3,000 years, but that may be one glimmer of evidence to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Why is this even a topic? If it didn't look comparable to the movies you'd complain it doesn't look like Star Wars. Now it looks and feels like Star Wars and you complain that it looks to simair? Of course, I agree. That's the whole point: it's all done--all done--in the name of dramatic presentation. I'm just pointing out that the mental contortions fan boys go through to make their favorite world "make sense," are laughable and illogical. Enjoy the world all you want. I sure do. But I'm not kidding myself into thinking it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipher_nemo Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) I'm just pointing out that the mental contortions fan boys go through to make their favorite world "make sense," are laughable and illogical. Enjoy the world all you want. I sure do. But I'm not kidding myself into thinking it makes sense. First of all, I'm not a "fan boy" of Star Wars. I'm much more a casual fan who owns all the movies and nothing else aside from KOTOR games and a TOR sub. You don't have to "make sense" of Star Wars' lore. It's sci-fi. It doesn't need to "make sense" when compared to the real world. Lucas made sure it was separated by placing Star Wars fiction in a completely different galaxy than our own. That means almost anything is possible provided it loosely adheres to known physics of the universe. Edited February 3, 2012 by cipher_nemo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RycheMykola Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Modern science is a very new concept, based in documentation and proof, something ancient "scientists" could not provide, simply because they did not have the means to do so. "modern science" is relative, its not a new concept. Even the construction of the Pyramids are still engineering marvels. Just because they didn't use CAD programs doesn't mean they didn't have engineers or scientists design them. Back in the timeframe of the Roman Empire, aquaducts, baths, etc were considered modern science. The coliseum was an engineering marvel. Full Suits of plate mail armor were considered "hi-tech". Even look at weapons. People used the sword, spear, bow, etc for thousands of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 That means almost anything is possible provided it loosely adheres to known physics of the universe. But it doesn't. Again, I'm okay with this, but let's not pretend like it's logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterKayote Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 ^ This. Wireless communication, but no wireless networking. A good example is the Jedi archives. They have to talk about the archives over comm channels, but they can't access them directly by wireless means. Really? They can transmit a holographic full 3d image across the galaxy + voice (instantly mind you) and youre saying they dont have wireless tech? Why because they dont have wifi at every cantina? C'mon now. And ive gotten space coordinate and countless other data transmitted to my holopad. Oh and smuggler spoiler: Part of the Smuggler story has you finding a slicer that hacks (slices) into the Republic database and makes Skavik look like the number 1 wanted criminal in the galaxy. Oh and he has herpes ... a fact that somehow ruins his chances with the ladies across the galaxy. ^^Thats not only obvious networking, but internet as well.^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riotus Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Because of a certain fanatic belief that dominated Europe at the time deemed most innovative thinking as heretical and put any progress to a complete halt. I have yet to spot any such tendancies in the SW universe, add to that the fact they always talk about scientists, research and tech advantages, its pretty obvious that there is no "legit" excuse for the lack of progress. uhhh, ever heard of jedi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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