1.1.2 Marauder/Sentinel changes are dps LOSS not increase

[Superawesomerman]

All of this speculation is based off of the assumption that the talent that is being adjusted is currently giving a 30% base damage bonus.

 

This all seems like a bunch of Henny Pennies trying to act like they know the math better than the guys who have spent years with the code.

 

You guys have no way of knowing if there is a 30% increase to base bleed damage. If a developer has confirmed that then my bad. Post a link to shed more light on the subject.

 

If, however, this has not been confirmed by an official source, you guys need to stop spreading misinformation and masquerading it as irrefutable proof.

 

My point is that your math can be as tight as a mosquito's butt hole, but if you're basing your whole equation on spurious information, it means absolutely nothing.

 

a dev did confirm ... somewhere. someone posted a link. Also confirmable with some respeccing.

 

Fanboys just cannot admit that bioware has some terrible patches.

[Sinvx]

a dev did confirm ... somewhere. someone posted a link. Also confirmable with some respeccing.

 

Fanboys just cannot admit that bioware has some terrible patches.

 

"Oh but a dev did confirm, I just can't back up my claim". GG.

[Superawesomerman]

No. First of all any decent jugg/guardian can crit 8ks in PvP. Marauders and Sentinels have better survival abilities than any other class. While still doing amazing deeps. They also have a lot of interrupts, slowing effects, and can close distance gaps fairly easily between the classes. You simply don't know how to play your class.

 

Qft. Mara - sents are ridiculous strong.

 

Which makes this "buff" even more baffling. Watchmen are fine, combat needs a buff if anything.

[Schmierig]

The point is (and no I didn't read all the 7 pages), that you just assumed a certain critchance from the beginning.

 

You should do the maths with variables and calculate the crit and power modifiers, not the DPS change on this constant build.

[Superawesomerman]

"Oh but a dev did confirm, I just can't back up my claim". GG.

 

On my phone at work, it is in one of three threads on this subject on these forums.

 

Edit: sup now, foo?

 

http://www.darthhater.com/devtracker/topic/43633-searing-saber-not-adding-30-crit-damage

Edited February 3, 2012 by Superawesomerman

[Gobrot]

He doesn't multiply 1.3*1.3, that was an an example the above poster was giving.

 

What he is doing is multiplying 1.04*1.3 which yields 1.352 a 35.2% damage increase from talents, when he should be adding the two together giving 1.34 a 34% damage increase from talents. This is all under the current system with the broken talents.

 

131 * 1.3 * 1.04 = 177

 

131 * (1.3 + 1.04) = 175

 

See the difference?

 

 

holly crap some people are bad at maths how the hell does 131 * (1.3 + 1.04) equal 175?

 

Guess you havent heard of BODMAS ? Brackets, orders, divide, multiply, add and subract the order of which things are calculated in the real world, not your fantasy look I can pretend to do maths one....

 

so BRACKETS first ... 1.3 + 1.04 = 2.34

MULTIPLY.... 2.34 * 131 = 306.54

 

 

So so sad when people can't do basic arithmatic.

[Superawesomerman]

holly crap some people are bad at maths how the hell does 131 * (1.3 + 1.04) equal 175?

 

Guess you havent heard of BODMAS ? Brackets, orders, divide, multiply, add and subract the order of which things are calculated in the real world, not your fantasy look I can pretend to do maths one....

 

so BRACKETS first ... 1.3 + 1.04 = 2.34

MULTIPLY.... 2.34 * 131 = 306.54

 

 

So so sad when people can't do basic arithmatic.

 

Its a typo, supposed to be 1.3+.04

 

Comes out to 175.54. Slow your roll.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Superawesomerman

[Gobrot]

Its a typo, supposed to be 1.3+.04

 

Comes out to 175.54. Slow your roll.

 

but if thats the case then

 

131 * 1.3 * 1.04 = 177

 

would need to be altered too

 

Therefore

 

131*1.3*.04 = 6.812

 

unless your after 2 completely different equations just to try and make a point, either way it results in failure

[DarthMithran]

 

You guys have no way of knowing if there is a 30% increase to base bleed damage. If a developer has confirmed that then my bad. Post a link to shed more light on the subject.

 

If, however, this has not been confirmed by an official source, you guys need to stop spreading misinformation and masquerading it as irrefutable proof.

 

It is easily verifiable in-game and several marauders/sentinels have done so. Test bleed dmg without Bleedout talent, write down results. Test bleed dmg with Bleedout talent, write down results. Compare non-crit results. Profit.

 

If bleedout is working as described in tooltip, it would have no effect on non-crit dmg. The players who tested it found this was not the case but rather that Bleedout was increasing base dmg by 30%.

 

If you don't believe it, then test it yourself before accusing people of spreading misinformation.

[Superawesomerman]

but if thats the case then

 

131 * 1.3 * 1.04 = 177

 

would need to be altered too

 

Therefore

 

131*1.3*.04 = 6.812

 

unless your after 2 completely different equations just to try and make a point, either way it results in failure

 

What? for someone jumping on someones math you sure dont get the point he's trying to make.

[Superawesomerman]

It is easily verifiable in-game and several marauders/sentinels have done so. Test bleed dmg without Bleedout talent, write down results. Test bleed dmg with Bleedout talent, write down results. Compare non-crit results. Profit.

 

If bleedout is working as described in tooltip, it would have no effect on non-crit dmg. The players who tested it found this was not the case but rather that Bleedout was increasing base dmg by 30%.

 

If you don't believe it, then test it yourself before accusing people of spreading misinformation.

 

http://www.darthhater.com/devtracker/topic/43633-searing-saber-not-adding-30-crit-damage

 

Wheee!

 

Also, qft.

[Fashybinder]

Marauders and Sentinels have better survival abilities than any other class. While still doing amazing deeps. They also have a lot of interrupts, slowing effects, and can close distance gaps fairly easily between the classes. You simply don't know how to play your class.

 

Damage is inferior to bh/ops/sorc

1 4m interrupt/1 channeled stun inferior to every other class in the way of cc

1 charge, slows need to be applied in melee range

 

You simply havent played a marauder/sent.

 

I have a BM merc, BM jugg and a 50 sent. Played most other classes to at least 25.

 

The fix to marauder/sent is a level 10 passive 'Your resolve bar fills 25% Faster'.

[Superawesomerman]

Damage is inferior to bh/ops/sorc

1 4m interrupt/1 channeled stun inferior to every other class in the way of cc

1 charge, slows need to be applied in melee range

 

You simply havent played a marauder/sent.

 

I have a BM merc, BM jugg and a 50 sent. Played most other classes to at least 25.

 

The fix to marauder/sent is a level 10 passive 'Your resolve bar fills 25% Faster'.

 

Really? 6 second damage immunity, 6 sec kick, 12second leap, vanish, aoe 6 second mez

 

Not saying we're overpowered, but anyone who plays sent/mara at a decent level doesn't feel underpowered at all.

 

And our unfettered dps is like the highest in the game, and sustainable forever.

[TrevNYC]

The only way this is can be considered a dps increase...is if the old system worked like the old tooltips had said. The old working system did more damage than the new system and the new system will do more damage than what the old tooltips would have proposed (but was never applied to the game).

 

I think that's the point. Earlier they had indicated that they were going to "fix" things by making the functionality match the current tooltips. So as far as they were concerned that was going to be the metric for your dps.

 

Subsequently, they decided to make more changes that would increase dps over what they were going to give you. It's confusing (a little) but I think they were trying to communicate that the changes are supposed to be a dps increase over a correctly working system, instead of a dps increase over a broken and unintended mechanic (otherwise, why bother fixing it?)

[Superawesomerman]

We need an official translator for bioware.

 

"this will result in an overall increase in dps"

 

... If you had not originally specced into these talents, and now do.

 

"1.7 million active subscribers"

 

... Which include people who are currently in their free month of have been comped time due to,being unable to play

 

"soon"

 

- sometime in the future

 

"very shortly"

 

- dammit, shutup already, we already told you "soon"

 

"Customer Service Droid"

 

- meatbag distraction unit

[TrevNYC]

I dunno. Not to be an apologist or anything because BW can stick up for itself if need be, but internal miscommunications happen in these situations. They probably had the talents fixed on an internal build, and then compiled patch note changes based on further changes to that build instead of comparing it to the Live one. It's annoying when it happens, but it has happened to every company that develops MMORPGs and bothers to include patch notes.

[Gobrot]

What? for someone jumping on someones math you sure dont get the point he's trying to make.

 

There is no point, thats the problem it's easy to make up any old equation that doesn't make it accurate, and the fact that the ones he did try and use were complete nonsense is enough to draw the conclusion that he hasn't a damn clue whats going on, so it boils down to believe people who cant add for crap and have no clue how the mechanics actually work or believe the people who develop the game until proved otherwise.

 

 

hmmm not rocket science really is it?

Edited February 4, 2012 by Gobrot

[Superawesomerman]

I dunno. Not to be an apologist or anything because BW can stick up for itself if need be, but internal miscommunications happen in these situations. They probably had the talents fixed on an internal build, and then compiled patch note changes based on further changes to that build instead of comparing it to the Live one. It's annoying when it happens, but it has happened to every company that develops MMORPGs and bothers to include patch notes.

 

Could be right, I admit, but it looks really bad, and causes players to lose confidence

[Superawesomerman]

There is no point, thats the problem it's easy to make up any old equation that doesn't make it accurate, and the fact that the ones he did try and use were complete nonsense is enough to draw the conclusion that he hasn't a damn clue whats going on, so it boils down to believe people who cant add for crap and have no clue how the mechanics actually work or believe the people who develop the game until proved otherwise.

 

 

hmmm not rocket science really is it?

 

Sure. Sounds good to me.

[kottonmouth]

Where did they say it was supposed to be a dps increase?

 

uhhh, in the patch notes...

[Tyranoc]

I will become more killy!?!?!?

 

Yes, yes, YES!!!!!

 

Now just give me my freaking battlemaster tokens!!!

[Ryxxi]

mm still mo dev responce...this sux

[DarthMithran]

holly crap some people are bad at maths how the hell does 131 * (1.3 + 1.04) equal 175?

 

Guess you havent heard of BODMAS ? Brackets, orders, divide, multiply, add and subract the order of which things are calculated in the real world, not your fantasy look I can pretend to do maths one....

 

so BRACKETS first ... 1.3 + 1.04 = 2.34

MULTIPLY.... 2.34 * 131 = 306.54

 

 

So so sad when people can't do basic arithmatic.

 

but if thats the case then

 

131 * 1.3 * 1.04 = 177

 

would need to be altered too

 

Therefore

 

131*1.3*.04 = 6.812

 

unless your after 2 completely different equations just to try and make a point, either way it results in failure

 

From these two posts it's clear that you made no effort to understand what the numbers represent.

 

0.3 = 30% increase in base dmg from bugged bleedout talent.

 

.04 = 4% increase in base dmg from bugged hemorrhage (supposed to be 6%)

 

Next time you should probably double check what you're posting before insulting people.

[Sotien]

OK ik this isnt helping much because im not posting any math to back my answer simply becuase i dont feel like it but with the old system it gave us 30% pure dmg what they did is took that away gave us the 30% crit multiplyer and gave us 15% straight dmg up from 4% on the other move well ok say you have 70% crit multiplier with your current gear which is a low average. using 400 base dmg.

 

for a crit you would get say your base dmg on it is 400 you would take 400 x 1.34( the 30% plus the 4 % from plasma blades which is also brok supposed to give 6%) then time 1.7 (which is your crit multiplyer) and get 911.2 for a crit

 

if you do it with new system you get 15% increase times the 70% crit u have but it gains 30% from talent so its 400 x 1.15 x2.0 = 920 ok we get a lil dps increase if we crit ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE TIME well lets be honest WE DONT even using ZEN on cd with valorous call... its not 100% all the time

 

now i didnt cover the other half of the time

 

i am lazy not gonna do the math i am not wrong check it urself without crit the old system is 19% more dmg all around to get this number take 30% pure dmg increase already from the broken talent then add the other broke talent plasma blades 4% and you get 34% increase on not crits the new system is 15% increase dmg which is 19% less dmg on ALLL not crits

 

 

 

THIS IS HOW IT WORKS DONT QUESTION JUST BUMP

[Gobrot]

From these two posts it's clear that you made no effort to understand what the numbers represent.

 

0.3 = 30% increase in base dmg from bugged bleedout talent.

 

.04 = 4% increase in base dmg from bugged hemorrhage (supposed to be 6%)

 

Next time you should probably double check what you're posting before insulting people.

 

It's clear from them 2 posts he cant do math for crap, next time you should probably have a thought of your own before posting.